First of all let’s start our examination of scripture with the directive from Jesus to the Apostles to go to Jerusalem where they would be given the promised gift of the Holy Ghost. We will spend a little time looking at that directive and the concept of remission of sin before getting into the burden of proof. We will then proceed to examine Acts one and two. We will progress through the rest of the accounts of the Holy Spirit being poured out and see whether the doctrine of tongues as evidence of the Holy Ghost baptism is supported in scripture.

 What you will see is that this was in fact the norm in the early church and over time the Church was infiltrated by wolves in sheep’s clothing with the express purpose of robbing people of a relationship with God and his son Jesus Christ.

1.1                         REMISSION OF SINS:

Speaking of the remission of sin, we read in Hebrews:

Heb 9:14  How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

Heb 9:15  And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

Heb 9:16  For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.

Heb 9:17  For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth. (Note: The legalistic terms of reference)

Heb 9:18  Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood.

Heb 9:19  For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people,

Heb 9:20  Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.

Heb 9:21  Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry.

Heb 9:22  And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

The Blood of Jesus is what gives us “remission” The question is this:

“Is it heresy to say that remission is contingent on more than just acknowledging that Jesus died for our sins”?

Let’s examine the evidence.

Luke 24:45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the Scriptures,

Important: Understanding can only come as a gift of God. You can’t learn your way to heaven.

Luke 24:46  And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:

Luke 24:47  And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Luke 24:48  And ye are witnesses of these things.

Luke 24:49  And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.

Note: Here Jesus was saying that “Remission of Sins” was to “Begin at Jerusalem” and this was to happen in the coming days. This is extremely important because many of these religious leaders point to any and every instance of someone receiving or being “filled with the Holy Ghost” whether Old or New Testament to substantiate their claim to disregard speaking in tongues as a legitimate evidence of salvation.

The TRUE GOSPEL is the gospel of Jesus Death, Burial and Resurrection in victory over death. Integral in the Gospel is the sanctifying Blood of Christ to purge the sinner of their sin so that they can stand before God pure and clean. The first instance of any man or woman being free from sin did not happen until the day of Pentecost. Jesus spoke of “Remission of Sins” several times but we did not receive “remission” until the confirmatory infilling of the Holy Ghost. That is why it is SO IMPORTANT.

Mat 26:26  And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and broke it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body.

Mat 26:27  And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;

Mat 26:28  For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

The fact that Jesus died and shed his blood so that we could be sanctified is accepted by all Christianity.

The fact that the New Covenant, agreement or testament was not ratified until the recipient of the grace of God received the Holy Ghost is not accepted.

 We know from the Gospels that the Holy Spirit had not been given before Jesus had risen from the dead and had been glorified. This of course was the whole reason Jesus came. He was and is after all Jesus the Christ or Jesus the Anointer.

 We also know that John the Baptist preached baptism for the “Remission of Sins” saying that they (the people) should believe on he who was coming, that is on the Jesus the Christ. Mark 1:8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he (Christ Jesus) shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.

 The important word is “believe”. The question is; what is belief? Is it just acknowledging the existence of God, Is it verbalising belief in Christ? What does the Bible say? Lets see!

The term “Remission of sins appears 7 times in scripture. In these 7 references to remission of sins, the benefits of remission are contingent on Water, Blood or Spirit.

For example:

The religious leaders of the world freely quote Act 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness; that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.  

They openly tell their parishioners that belief only, is sufficient to receive the salvation, ignoring the very next verse and the confirmatory 3 witnesses.

Act 10:44  While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. Act 10:45 And they of the circumcision, which believed, were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Act 10:46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God.

Then answered Peter,

Act 10:47  Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

Act 10:48  And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord.

Why do churches ignore this? The things that happened to the household of Cornelius were identical to those things that occurred with the120 on the Day of Pentecost.

They had received the Holy Ghost as the Apostles had at the beginning. Act 11:15  And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.

Act 11:16  Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.

Act 11:17  Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?

Act 11:18  When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

This story is my template or model of how to determine if and when those to whom I preach have received the Holy Spirit. If I simply said to people say a sinners prayer or verbalize your belief. I might just as well white out this portion of scripture.

We are called to give people “all the counsel of God”. Not just the parts that afford us the least resistance.

As we can see there are three (3) Witnesses in the Bible that confirm or ratify our sanctification before God. We read in

1John 5:1  Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

1John 5:2  By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.

1John 5:3  For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

1John 5:4  For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

1John 5:5  Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

Again the religious leaders of the world freely quote these verses and stop short of the full gospel. If they read on they would be confronted with a challenge to their compromised version of the gospel. And once again they tell their parishioners that belief only; is sufficient, ignoring the next verses and the confirmatory 3 witnesses

1John 5:6  This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.

What is meant by the repeated use of the word witness?

Definition: A witness as a matter of Law, is someone who has firsthand knowledge about a crime or dramatic event through their senses (e.g. seeing, hearing, smelling, touching) and can help certify important considerations to the crime or event. A witness who has seen the event firsthand is known as an eye-witness. Encyclopedia Brittanica

The three (3) Witnesses bear Witness of salvation.

None of this is new. One needs only to look into the Old Testament to see the pattern repeated over and over and over again.

And to quote some recent gem of Ian's:

I reckon you've been fooled into thinking that Paul's instruction to the Corinthian church was intended as a positive! Well, it wasn't. "Tongues" is nothing more than a very minor gift; it isn't a/the seal of God's Spirit, nor is it any sort of indication that a person is saved to begin with. Further, modern "Pentecostal tongues" aren't really evidence of anything; many are actually little more than a learned response, and the majority appear to be simple gibberish spoken over and over. Hardly the sort of thing one should be hinging one's eternity on!

Do you pray normally as much as (or perhaps even more than) you do in "tongues"? If not, why not? And why all the emphasis on, and concern with, "tongues" in any case? The apostle Paul didn't give the matter anywhere near the same degree of emphasis that you have shown thus far, or that Pentecostals give to the gift more generally. In fact, the impression that Paul presents is that an over-emphasis (perhaps fascination) with "tongues" is a sure sign of spiritual immaturity, and not the reverse!

L/GWM,

Your twist on "burden of proof" really is a nonsense. I dispute some of your alleged facts and an awful lot of your reasoning thus far. To be honest, I have no interest in debating this at length since it's already been done and your position has been scripturally demolished in articles published here. Nevertheless, as Moth challenged, let's use your hermeneutic.

As Moth pointed out, the events of Acts 2 interpreted according to your hermeneutic would indicate that any "outpouring of the Holy Ghost for the remission of sin" ought to be accompanied by:
1) a sound like a wind,
2) the appearance of fire
3) human languages not learned by the speaker, but comprehended by at least some of the audience

- not Revival-style "unknown tongues".

Forget for the moment the superstructure of 'soteriology' you're building, and deal with this challenge from the evidence you set as your foundation.

If your foundation is faulty, any superstructure is pretty pointless.

Seriously, if you don't meet this challenge, there's not much point even reading the rest of your argument (though I have so far).

I actually agree with Moth....Mr or Ms Guest, you are wasting your time on here with your doctrines...  People who have left the Rev centre are way beyond being re-converted to such narrow minded and shallow teachings.   Yes ppl have left the Rev centre due to various hurts and mistreatment etc.  However alot of the that hurt and mistreatment stems from the false crap and doctrinal teachings about our salvation.  If speaking in tongues was the only way of proving salvation or being 'spirit filled', then I would like to think there would be more demonstration of God's love and mercy etc than the judgement and condemnation so quickly dished out.  If speaking in tongues made us sin no more and be a true Christian as I was brain washed to believe, then why is there so much sin in that place!!!.  Because it's a load of crap.  Being a Christian has nothing to do with speaking in tongues.  I know many, many beautiful Christians who do not speak in tongues and have more fruits of the spirit or 'purity' in their lives than many of the ppl I grew up 'following and obeying' for twenty years. That ridiculous doctrine you are preaching only brings about guilt and failure and shame and hurt. 

I 'spoke in tongues' and became 'spirit filled' at the age of eleven and was then quickly baptised as the legalism enforced.  All this happened because I was forced to sit at the back of the hall for hours and hours over a couple of years chanting 'halleluja' over and over.  I had to get 'spirit filled'.  I didn't have a clue what actual salvation really was though or even have an understanding of Jesus or the basics of Christianty.  I was just a kid and did what I was told and believed what I was told to believe.  It was just all had known from a baby. 

When I was 'spirit filled' it wasn't even at a meeting.  It was in my own time on a bed and I know I experienced a powerful moment.  I believe God blessed my innocence and determination at that time.  However I believe that I actually 'got saved' when I was a young adult after I had left the Rev centre when I consciously chose to commit my life to Jesus because it was a heart choice and I knew what I wanted and the experience came from my heart.  It was when I knew first hand what His grace and mercy was after being through a whole lot of shitty times.   I have had many many powerful experiences from God since then and none of them had anything to do with 'speaking in tongues'.   The Holy Spirit can touch us in many ways and 'speaking in tongues' is only one of them and by no means is the key to our salvation. 

Anyway, self righteous, religious and prideful  'know it alls' really get up my goat so I had to say something!  Stop getting so caught up in stupid little details and you might start to see what's really going on there and then maybe you'll see the truth.  I don't care how many scriptures are quoted and sprouted to win an arguement.  As far as I'm concerned the way ppl are being treated is the reality.  As the old saying goes 'It's not what you say but what you do'.  I can't believe that even after reading ppl's stories on here and agreeing that it was bad, that you would still harp on about 'doctrinal issues'.  How could you not see the damage they are causing and not possibly start to question other areas like their doctrines?  How could they be so 'right' in one area and yet so 'wrong' and 'unscriptural' in so many others?  MMMM ????? doesn't add up to me....

Oh well no hard feelings... but I'm sure you have a thick skin as you'd have to be to survive in the Rev centre....
You've been banned... Leave us alone!  

The 'Cult' isn't necessarily the organisation one is affiliated with, whether it be RF, RCI, GRC, CAI, ACA, or the  UPI, it's the doctrine of separation that alienates these people, in various degrees, from their families and the wider world of Christendom around them. I've seen many people leave Revival but still be locked up and bound by the tangle of mishmashed scriptures it set up as their shaky foundation. That's where the heart of the cult is, in it's ability to control and isolate these souls via a doctrine that sets to confuse what should be a simple message.

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Well said Moth! The sad fact is that so many people, even though they leave these groups, still carry with them this 'brainwashed' mentality. They just can't get past the doctrine that we had all been 'taught' and in fact all believed at one time. How is it so easy for some to 'see' and others to not see? Because they still believe in the doctrine which has come about by false interpretation as taught to them in these groups. So very sad!

As you say Moth, it is a simple salvation message - the gospel of  Jesus Christ's life, death and resurrection and yet it seems to be not enough/insufficient for the revival groups. They have chosen to make it into a 'works-based'  rather than a 'grace-based' salvation message. If Jesus died just so we could speak in tongues, it all seems rather pointless - and yet He died so that we could have new abundant life by believing, trusting and following Him. 

While these groups hold on to their teachings/beliefs they remain under a dark cloud of oppression and will not 'see' Jesus or have a revelation of Him and His love for us. IF they choose to seek God and investigate scripture further they begin to realise that they don't have the answers at all. 

The God that the revival groups know is the God that they show - and it is a God of fear, judgement, control instead of a God of love, mercy, kindness, compassion who desires us to seek Him with all our hearts. The moment we decide to do that, He comes for us and we resume the intimate relationship that we had with Him before the fall.

I will be eternally grateful that I didn't remain in the organisation, even though I probably stayed longer than I should have. This was because of the fear and guilt that is put on a person if they consider leaving and going somewhere else. Week after week after week I listened to our pastors tell us that the 'big pentecostal' (and in fact ALL other) churches must be wrong cos they're so big/they drink alcohol/they compromise/they don't preach the truth/only WE preach the truth etc etc etc - and it was that fear that held me there.  I was afraid that if I went somewhere else I would 'compromise' - although I was in fact very, very lukewarm.  It was more of a social scene in the end for me and I had lost my desire to pray or to seek God.  VERY very different now!! I love my beautiful Lord with a passion that I never knew I had inside of me and will love and serve Him till the day I die.

Lukey, if you're reading this, please give some thought to what I am saying - open your mind and your heart to God and ask Him to reveal Himself to you. He did to me, and to many others that I know that now have an awesome relationship with God that they never, ever had during their time at RF.

With love, Urchin