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| Title: Prayer and fasting... Can we see those scriptures? - Peter Bainbridge | |
| Revival_Centres_Discussion_Forums > Bible, Beliefs, Scriptures and 'The Word' > Revival Doctrines we 'USED TO BELIEVE' | Go to subcategory： |
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MothandRust
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Date Posted：23/04/2006 3:19 PMCopy HTML Prayer and fasting... Can we see those scriptures again?
Fasting... after a good long fast, it can feel really good... you made it! You survived! You can now eat Hungry Jacks! like It's a challenge and apparently a good bodily cleansing exercise. If it's a prayer and fast you undertook then you not only tried to concentrate more on things holy but you put in a physical and natural effort to put off the flesh. Here's a thought. Blessing shouldn't be a result of worksin this age of grace, yet some believe prayers are more effective if our physical bodies are denied nutrients. By denying our body of food for varying periods of time, our faith will grow as we ignore the normal hunger of our body. God will hopefully notice the special determination and reward it. Should we flaggelate ourselves also? Should we prove our spirituality by some sort of physical work or effort? The Holy Spirit should be enough... adding a fast during prayer will not improve it if prayer is something that should be done 'without ceasing'... in other words, it's a lifestyle and not a special three days of nourishment neglection. "Under grace, we do not endeavour to find merit from anything we do. Our merits are the merits of Jesus Christ put to our account. "The kingdom of God takes no issue in dietry matters - Romans 14:17, "For the kingdom of God is not food and drink but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Ghost. "The early church devoted themselves to teaching and to fellowship,to the breaking of bread and to prayer- Acts 2:42Matthew 11:19The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children.Because of this growing practice of fasting from the third century, the word "fasting" wrongly crept into numerous manuscripts and versions in such places as inMark 9:29, where it should be, "This kind can come out only through prayer". Many try to follow what the call the fasting of Jesus as recorded in the gospels. The true facts are these. Jesus was in the wilderness for a period of time under the control of the Spirit and sustained by God's providence. Jesus was supernaturally sustained for forty days, without food. That being the case, he did not "fast" for self-mortification. It does not state that Jesus was led by the Spirit on to a fast. It merely states He did not eat for forty days.There is mention of fasting in Luke 2:37.Although found in the New Testament, it happened in the transition period from Old to New. They asked Jesus,"But your disciples do not fast". It is found in Matthew 9:14-18; Mark 2:18-22; and Luke 5:33-39.The next mention about fasting in the Gospels is found in Matthew 6:1-18. The subject is "Piety before Men". Matthew 15:32, ...He then said,"I have compassion on the multitude, because they continue with me now three days and have nothing to eat: and I will not send them away fasting, lest they faint." Note that fasting and mourning are always joined together. Therefore, in a time of joy, fasting would be unnatural. Jesus could not have been encouraging His followers to fast. He gives them everlasting joy. Jesus did not fast and neither did His disciples. In fact Jesus says in Luke7:33,34 - For John the Baptist came neigher eating bread nor drinking wine and you say 'He has a demon.' The Son of Man came eating anddrinking and you say 'Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of the collectors and siners'." Obviously, Jesus andHis desciples did not even follow the fast on the day of atonement. It's no wonder that such lawful churches, such as the Revivals, promote fasting and tongues so much. They are both physical abilities that give them the false belief that they are holier than others. But fasting is NOT a what many think it means. It is a work of flesh and akin to self-flaggelation in a hopeful bid to get God's attention via a little suffering. Jesus did all the suffering that should be needed for us all. Anyone who tries to promote fasting as a profitable exercise is surely preaching a convoluted doctrine of works and deception. Pretty used to that eh? Instagram and Twitter: @mothpete
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Anonymous
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Re：Prayer and fasting... Can we see those scriptures? - Peter Bainbridge Date Posted：26/04/2006 8:40 AMCopy HTML I agree with your point about fasting. To me, it is all about works for the RF. I remember after a prayer and fast where some had fasted for about a week. The pastor was all beaming and spiritual looking and came up to my wife and said the biggest load of crap I had ever heard. I thought, yeah, a week of fasting and this is what comes out of you????
Here in America, they fast every other month, so to me it is like some kind of spiritual oneupmanship between assemblies. I think fasting may have some merit, but you have to be sure that is what God is calling you to do. Also, you can fast from things other than food. |
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sidelined
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Re：Prayer and fasting... Can we see those scriptures? - Peter Bainbridge Date Posted：26/04/2006 9:34 PMCopy HTML |
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MothandRust
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Re：Prayer and fasting... Can we see those scriptures? - Peter Bainbridge Date Posted：26/04/2006 9:54 PMCopy HTML
What merit do you thing it has? Why should one have to deny themselves of sustenance to please God or get his attention.. or prove themselves? All fasting seemed to do was make us uncomfortable and dream about Hungry Jacks while sitting through hours of boring talks and tongue sessions. Instagram and Twitter: @mothpete
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Anonymous
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Re：Prayer and fasting... Can we see those scriptures? - Peter Bainbridge Date Posted：27/04/2006 11:19 AMCopy HTML Hi H and S
As far as fasting goes, I see some scriptures supporting it in the Bible. Like many things though in the Bible, I believe fasting was mainly written for specific people at specific times. Our pastor touched on it once and said that the main thing is to set aside time to seek God, whatever form it takes. He said that meals could take hours of prep time in Bible days. In other words, not fixing meals = lots of time to seek God. I tend to agree with that. That said, I have not fasted in the 6 years since I left the RF. Like many things, it has left a bad memory in my mind, much like you mentioned. I don't think it is a work if it is between you and God. Jesus mentioned for us to do such things in the closet. If you are not interested in fasting, that is not a problem, as we are not required to do it. |
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Anonymous
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Re：Prayer and fasting... Can we see those scriptures? - Peter Bainbridge Date Posted：28/04/2006 7:53 PMCopy HTML
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MothandRust
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Re：Prayer and fasting... Can we see those scriptures? - Peter Bainbridge Date Posted：28/04/2006 8:32 PMCopy HTML
Yes I've read all the scriptures on fasting.. even the one's that have been added to the bible by interpreters since it's original writing. I certainly don't just listen to others and I certainly don't have any pastors. That's where I think deception takes off... itching ears and 'teachers' (pastors) with their fables. Pastors are just men (and women)... they haven't got the answers. I don't believe there are scriptures that support it. While I don't support all the beliefs in the following study written by dr Irene at http://revirene.com/FastingInTheScriptures.htm I think she has made some very interesting points and has also covered EVERY scripture. Are there any points she has made that you think you might be able to refute? Pete. Instagram and Twitter: @mothpete
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Anonymous
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Re：Prayer and fasting... Can we see those scriptures? - Peter Bainbridge Date Posted：29/04/2006 2:16 AMCopy HTML $%*'`[youla (julie)]%*'`@
Reply to : HolyandSinful Peter when someone presents me with an entire list and array of scripture that appears well versed , to try to convince others of their beliefs , then I instantly think of all those religious twits who bible bash me I am not edified , there is no charity in all of this talk , yes it is all , holy and the word of God !!!!! BUT THEN SATAN HIMSELF WILL USE THE BIBLE TO GET YOU TO DOUBT YOUR own personal relationship with God It is interesting that the author takes such a deep incline towards the old testament to prove her point does she not know how to rightly divide the word of truth ? God has his guidelines , that is for sure , but she in no way tells you what his guidelines are , just indoctrinating you with facts alone This kinda Preaching will send any one over the edge , and I know , for it had been used against me there is simplicity , and again I warn , do not listen to any body unless you have done some very thorough research , my aim is to mend the damage done SIMPLICITY , is the key , joy is the end result and the proof start fighting with God and ON YOUR OWN , I dare you , for you will be in the hot seat
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Re：Prayer and fasting... Can we see those scriptures? - Peter Bainbridge Date Posted：29/04/2006 8:22 AMCopy HTML $%*'`[youla]%*'`@
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MothandRust
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Re：Prayer and fasting... Can we see those scriptures? - Peter Bainbridge Date Posted：29/04/2006 8:53 AMCopy HTML
It's called 'presenting a thorough investigation of one side of a topic' and it needs to be well versed. I'm sure you've had times in your life when you've found a particular interpretation of scripture to be less than perfect. The bible is available for study and reproof and I'm certainly not trying to bible bash anyone... just present information and ideas... I'm sure you're equipped with 'discernment' so you can glean what you will. Knowledge is freely available - wisdom allows you to sort it. Dont think something is wrong just because if flies in the face of everything you think and know to be true. Open your mind.
Oh... he's a rascal isn't he, that ol' devil... trouble maker! She (Dr Irene) does illustrates some good contrast with the scriptural ties to the old testament. It's important to set context. She was also making an important point that the act of fasting was predominantly an action done under the law of the O.T. Rightly dividing the word of God depends on looking at the whole book, not just bits and pieces.
Simplicity is definitely the key but then that's usually what people say when they can't be bothered to study something in more depth. Joy isn't a proof of anything because everyone testifies to it. Indoctrinating with facts is much more healthy than indoctrination with fiction. But as has been said, you can fast or not fast, dance or not dance, speak in tongues or not speak in tongues, if it feels good and you get yourself some JOY.. then well, you're doin' well.
Oh, a dare! I dare you to run down your street naked.. hahaha... I agree with some of Irene's stuff and have posted a summary in the first post that I liked. I also quoted some stuff ALL ON MY OWN... so yay me hey? sheeeshhh... you haven't yet actually refuted any of Dr Irene's ideas.. so unless you are able to challenge them and make me see any errors in her's or my way... I'll keep running with that ball on this topic. Plus, I hate going hungry... it's unhealthy to do it for long periods of time to the body... We are instructed not to do harm to our own bodies and a long fast will cause muscles to be weakened and damaged. Jesus, in his forty days of 'going without food' was supernaturally sustained. Instagram and Twitter: @mothpete
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MothandRust
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Re：Prayer and fasting... Can we see those scriptures? - Peter Bainbridge Date Posted：29/04/2006 9:27 AMCopy HTML
It just strikes me as interesting that this is perceived as a way of getting God's attention, private or otherwise, to reach him. It's like waving your hands wildly at the sky and hoping God will look down over his glasses for long enough to put you on his 'to do' list. Jesus was criticized by the Pharisees for not imposing fasting upon His disciples as John the Baptist had. Jesus told His critics that fasting was not appropriate in times of joy. His reply was that while He was with them He wanted His disciples to be joyful; [see Matthew 9:14ff; Mark 2L18ff; Luke 5:33ff].
Fasting does not get your body under subjections it puts it less so. It makes your body desperate for food because you're denying it of what it was designed to have. There is nothing unholy about eating at all.. so why refrain from it unless you're eating crap. 'Whether you eat or drink,' he said, 'or whatever you do, do it all to the glory of God.' (I Corinthians 10:31)
you wanna be in tune with God... That's easy... and can be done without starving yourself.. just do unto others what you'd have them do unto you and you'll be fine... unless they're swingers. Yup, I'm gonna keep harping on about fasting. hahhahaha
Hey, I've got no problem with simplicity ... I've pretty much boxed all my bibles and concordances up and replaced them with three words... love one another.
Oh, I want trouble... you want trouble? Run into a shopping centre and yell, "He's got a GUN!!!" Instagram and Twitter: @mothpete
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Re：Prayer and fasting... Can we see those scriptures? - Peter Bainbridge Date Posted：29/04/2006 1:06 PMCopy HTML $%*'`[yuoula]%*'`@
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MothandRust
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Re：Prayer and fasting... Can we see those scriptures? - Peter Bainbridge Date Posted：30/04/2006 10:49 AMCopy HTML
You really don't get it either do you huh?
Losing your physical strength is a negative.. we need it to effectively survive on this planet, to keep our immune system strong, and also to do the hippidy dippidy with a partner.
Just... as you say, like that! Actually, yeah they're boxed but easily accessed on the net. Yep, love one another... works for me.
Love your enemies. But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you Mat 5:54
Yes, I staunchly refused to accept anybody elses slant on what the bible has to say... but holy quackamolie... I thank the god in heaven and the that I finally stopped refusing another slant... otherwise I'd stil be at Revival Fellowship wasting hundreds of precious hours assimilating to the hive mind even more... I got out with some of my brain intact... praise de lor-wud.
Do you watch the X-Files? Can you use some of that voodoo magic on the families near me that have their music cranked up to 11 until 2 oclock in the morning... don't kill them... just hurt them a little... make the bloody barking dogs disappear too. Thanks. That reminds me of the story about the guys who dug up that egyptian grave - Tutankaman?... they all got a supposed curse and died after disturbing the tomb. Perhaps you are a mummy?
You get praise? molded scum? enemies? hate? I think you are overdramatising life a bit, which is cool I suppose.. makes life a bit exciting but sooner or later you have to grasp reality and move on. Sure everyone loves to have a nemesis... I've got that workmate down the hall that smiles at me but I know is out to get me somehow... hmmmmm. I'll win - See if I don't! Bwahahahhahahahaha
I totally agree. It would be good to hear about stories and victories and etc. Feel free to join the discussions in the freedom room or the introductions room. This room, and particularly this thread, is a discussion on the bible topic of fasting where other people's studies can be quoted and taken apart and debated. I'm glad you're here... Cause you kinda crazy fun gal. If you are a dedicated christian you may want to use the Christian room as there's less chance of people rebuttling you who don't believe your views.. and shock! 6 billion people on the planet... not all are savvy to your enlightened knowledge.
Don't take the gospels literally? Or are you talking about the parts which don't fit into your cuttent schema? Was Jesus walking on water? Do we not actually have to turn our cheek anymore? Are we allowed to buy property on the first run around the Monopoly board?
Yes I get it, but can I give some back? I've got about all the joy I can handle at the moment but I always seem to be able to swipe some more fries from the kids trays at McDonald's. My mum is a religious twit but I've never seen anybody with more joy in their life. Ignorance is bliss, insanity is just a tad better, and Jim Beam is just right. Instagram and Twitter: @mothpete
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Re：Prayer and fasting... Can we see those scriptures? - Peter Bainbridge Date Posted：30/04/2006 12:39 PMCopy HTML $%*'`[youla]%*'`@
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MothandRust
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Re：Prayer and fasting... Can we see those scriptures? - Peter Bainbridge Date Posted：30/04/2006 1:28 PMCopy HTML
Certainly. It's very sad. life can truly suck sometimes. I don't have any counselling skills... or people skills for that matter, so I often hesitate to give advice. I don't think people really take much of what I say to heart anyway. I think at least being here is helpful in some way. It's nice to have someone reply to a post... at least you know someone is actually reading. I think that's satisfying, even if it is just me ranting away.
You got that right. Other people can do the serious stuff. No, I don't go out and see the suffering. The Revival churches hate it when I stand outside their windows and point at them shaking my head. People have to work things out for themselves. Giving an ear and a shoulder is what I do. People who leave the Revivals have just made the biggest and bravest step and proven themselves to already have a grasp of what it takes to be the shapers of their own destiny.
I am stupid... but stupidity is relative. Compared to some people I am amazingly intelligent LOL. You love a good fight and I'm enjoying the discussion. Sorry to see you go, but someone has to have the last word here and we are far from the original topic.
Don't beat yourself up. I think you've got a lot of passion and a great spirit. I am also up until 2 am plus... sleeping disorders! Grrr... And you're not stupid, you're just learning from mistakes and therein lies the greatest truth. Instagram and Twitter: @mothpete
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(which sort of sounds like saying 'Me right - you stupid') LIttle secret, Julie... you, like countless other people who think they have it all worked out, are not holders of the truth. You, like those others, including myself, have tried to work out the universe around us using the limited knowledge and the many experiences we have received and processed. We shape our realities hoping the data we percieve is better than others. The bible is 66 interesting books of text... and to play the game we do, we got to play by the rules therein. Monopoly just isn't the same game when people collect money at free parking... it's a rule that doesn't exist and the game is radically different because of it.. sorry, just got into ramble mode.
