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| Title: Poll: What do you now think of homosexuality? | |
| Revival_Centres_Discussion_Forums > Bible, Beliefs, Scriptures and 'The Word' > Revival Doctrines we 'USED TO BELIEVE' | Go to subcategory： |
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Unkoolman
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Date Posted：09/09/2006 12:25 PMCopy HTML What do you now think of homosexuality?
Unkoolmail
"As man is, so is his God; And thus is God, oft strangely odd" - Goethe "Emancipate yourself from mental slavery. None but ourselves can free our minds." - Bob Marley |
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Anonymous
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Re：Poll: What do you now think of homosexuality? Date Posted：16/09/2006 7:58 PMCopy HTML $%*'`[love peace joy and the rest]%*'`@
This article was in The Age Newspaper in Melbourne as was written by Tim Hunter, former RCI Melbourne. Tim's family were very high profile (his father was once the head deacon) in the Melbourne assembly and Tim played the Narrator character in Mr Jonah for some years as well as being in musical groups.
Confessions of a gay teen for Jesus
October 31, 2004
When Melbourne writer Tim Hunter watched Saved!, he laughed, he cried (well, nearly), and he remembered his own experience of being a closeted gay teen in a fundamentalist Christian church. I was brought up in a Pentecostal Christian church that was zealously righteous: no sex before marriage, no alcohol, no smoking, no drugs, no dancing, no adultery, and definitely no homosexuality. I was a believer. Trouble is, I was also gay. We had midnight curfews and we were encouraged from the pulpit to "avoid all appearances of evil". As a young teenager, this had been a source of comfort to me: I knew what was right and wrong. But when I began to realise I was homosexual, this black-and-white morality became a real burden, and I was forced to lead a double life. Dean, the young Christian in Saved! who struggles with his sexuality, isn't the main character but he is the catalyst for the film. He discloses to his girlfriend Mary that he thinks he might be gay, she does her best to keep him on the straight and narrow, it fails. And when the truth is out, there's no going back for him. I had a similar experience. When the head of my church found out about my double life (I was in my early 20s at the time) I was asked to leave what had been my community. I could only return if I were to marry a woman. I did indeed get married, and I did return to the church, but while the marriage was real and based on love I couldn't continue to deny my sexuality. Finally, I had no choice but to leave the church. Later, I left the marriage too. The church really wasn't very good at dealing with any "aberrant" or undesirable behaviour. It had something to do with keeping the Body of Christ pure. We were told it was for our own good. There were no grey areas: you were either with the Lord, or you weren't. And obviously I wasn't. Watching Saved! a decade on from these events stirred all sorts of feelings in me that I thought I'd left behind. The film's home-made gospel rock band, the Christian Jewels, made me laugh out loud. The sermons satirised made me chuckle, though they were frighteningly close to my own experiences. But it was a scene at the film's climax (naturally enough at the school prom, which Dean gatecrashes) that really affected me. Without giving too much away, it deals with the expectations imposed upon young people in churches like this, and the churches' acceptance, or otherwise, of difference. Its truth hit me like a blow to the chest, and I was moved, not quite to tears, but close enough. Because presented here was something I knew only too well. It didn't surprise me to learn later that co-writer and director Brian Dannelly had been involved with such church groups, and that he too was gay. While there's some discomfort in seeing something so intimately familiar on the big screen, there's also a great comfort in knowing that I'm not alone in my experiences. Sadly, though, I guess now I'll have to ditch that script I've been writing all these years. |
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bindi
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Re：Poll: What do you now think of homosexuality? Date Posted：17/09/2006 8:07 PMCopy HTML
Being as my trade has indeed surrounded me with lots of homosexuals.. I must admit, I have always had a problem with 'homophobics'. I have had many conversations with gay men and have come to realize that these men have most certainly not 'chosen' to be gay. They were born that way. A genetic malfunction has taken place. Just like someone who has been born with Downes Syndrome, or born a siamese twin. Something went wrong in the making of there bodies. Women trapped in a male body. ( This relates more for men who later become transexuals ) In fact, when the feotus is formed, it begins with male genetals, then later on, if its a girl, the body changes. But sadly I guess, some do not go through that process. Others, I believe, are just born with more 'female' hormones than 'male' hormones. And the same goes for lesbians. Visa versa. True.. in this day and age of sexual freedom, some do 'choose' to be that way. Maybe due to the fact they have been mistreated by the opposite sex. Or maybe they just prefer to be with the same sex! But, as Ive said.. many dont choose their sexual preference and try desperately to hide it for fear of discrimination and unacceptance in the community. Although in Gods eyes, this act is unacceptable, God created us the way we are and we cannot change that. I am happy for homosexuals that in todays society, they are not a shunned upon as they were in the past. We are all human.
" IF I COULD WISH FOR MY LIFE TO BE PERFECT, IT WOULD BE TEMPTING BUT I WOULD HAVE TO DECLINE, FOR LIFE WOULD NO LONGER TEACH ME ANYTHING."
Allyson Jones |
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Ex_Member
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Re：Poll: What do you now think of homosexuality? Date Posted：17/09/2006 10:39 PMCopy HTML Reply to : bindi Whilst I share your conclusions about gays and treating them well, there is NO SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE to support homesexuality being genetic. That may change as science continues to explore the issue though. Still, there is nothing at this stage. Nurture or nature? The old question. But that being said, I agree...most do not choose to be gay. I have gay friends and one in particular who would give his right leg to be straight. He WANTS to be straight. He truly, truly does. But he's not and he can't help but be sexually attracted to men and not women. I thihk there are lots of things in the psyche of gay people that make them gay. Go online, read some books, look into it...see what others have to say. It's fabulous...errr..i mean...fascinating. |
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bindi
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Re：Poll: What do you now think of homosexuality? Date Posted：18/09/2006 8:11 PMCopy HTML You use the word... "FABULOUS" TE LUO YI ( Is that a limp wrist I see typing that post) ????? Hahahahahaha! NOW Im worried for you! ( Just kidding! ) Im seriously going to take your advice and research it further. This has been a subject that has long fascinated me being as Ive had many a conversation with homosexuals. Funny.. I actually have always wanted to write a book for family and friends of loved ones who are homosexual to help them come to terms with it, understand it and love that person for who and what they are. ( Hmm... Could this be a begininning of yet another career move???? ) " IF I COULD WISH FOR MY LIFE TO BE PERFECT, IT WOULD BE TEMPTING BUT I WOULD HAVE TO DECLINE, FOR LIFE WOULD NO LONGER TEACH ME ANYTHING."
Allyson Jones |
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Anonymous
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Re：Poll: What do you now think of homosexuality? Date Posted：21/09/2006 11:21 AMCopy HTML
Homosexuality is a SIN - the same as lying, stealing, fornicating, etc. It is a choice. Satan knows our weaknesses more than we do. He will attack where we are vulnerable. Homosexuality is a CHOICE - just like STEALING, just like LYING, just like having LUSTFUL THOUGHTS .... one moment one just decides i have to.... steal, lie, have a homosexual relationship, have an affair...... in God's eyes - they are all sins.... |
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MothandRust
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Re：Poll: What do you now think of homosexuality? Date Posted：21/09/2006 2:40 PMCopy HTML
Yeah... it's close and narrow-minded christian ignorance. Nothing short.
Are you throwing the first stone? You assume far too much on God's part, but then again, God is a very different thing from where each of us is standing. Let's unpack this subject a little more and try to keep learnt biases out of it... I'm up for it. We'll have a look at it from a few viewpoints and even see what the bible does and doesn't say about it. I'm sure there is much hatred already stored in many a christian mind-set and some are brought up with the archiac model of gay = sin. It reminds me of the black hate I've seen in American children who follow their parent's example. Backyard theolgians will have to do their homework and understand some of the context and cultural references around at the time of writing etc. Let's see if we can dispell the ignorance and come to some (hopefully, open-ended) conclusions, freeing up some intolerance in the dark hateful ideas people have. Instagram and Twitter: @mothpete
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bindi
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Re：Poll: What do you now think of homosexuality? Date Posted：21/09/2006 7:52 PMCopy HTML
It may be a SIN in Gods eyes but this is the REAL world! Its ignorant comments like yours that have these people desperate to hide their sexual orientation! Your sure know how to damn people even further dont you? How much about homosexuality do you actually know about? How many homosexual people have you spoken to heart to heart? For most people it isnt a CHOICE!!!! Most would rather be straight! " IF I COULD WISH FOR MY LIFE TO BE PERFECT, IT WOULD BE TEMPTING BUT I WOULD HAVE TO DECLINE, FOR LIFE WOULD NO LONGER TEACH ME ANYTHING."
Allyson Jones |
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MothandRust
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Re：Poll: What do you now think of homosexuality? Date Posted：22/09/2006 10:54 AMCopy HTML Reply to : Anon of course [Anonymous] Bindi... I think AOC is have a bit of a lend of you.
You haven't spoken to enough gays by the sound of it, because many truly do enjoy the feeling of a phallus entering their nether regions. I'm absolutely sure I don't, by the way. *thinks to self for a moment... another moment* nah - not me. Shuddering at the thought actually, but I do know bi-guys and gays who don't shudder. In fact, I know of one fella who shudders at the thought of women's genetalia and nakedness. He can't be reasoned with. He just finds the idea of sex with women as deplorable as you or I would about sex with men. I reckon if I were a woman I'd want to be a lesbian... men are so hairy and stubbly and gangly... *shudders again*.
Maybe... that's up to them. I'm sure there would be a lot that find the toilet hopping lifestyle pretty rank.
There's something annoying about the flouncy ones to me. Perhaps it's years of christian influence and intolerance and misunderstanding that rises up in me. The gay people I do know are very very nice people and strangely enough I find them to be very trustworthy and genuine people. I imagine a lot of gay people hide the lifestyles because a lot of people like yourself are so quick to label it 'messed up'. Keep it nice people.. no baiting... you know what I mean AOC. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and hope you don't actually bash people for enjoyment. Instagram and Twitter: @mothpete
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bindi
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Re：Poll: What do you now think of homosexuality? Date Posted：22/09/2006 4:42 PMCopy HTML
As for the flouncy, parade type gays... must admit.. I dont particularly like that. I cant stand the Gay Mardii's! Just cant imagine heterosexual people being allowed to get away with some of the disgusting floats they make up. I dont think its necessary to go OTT with your sexuality like that. Personally, I think that many are turned off of gay people because of such exhibitionism! HOWEVER... Good luck to them if they enjoy it! Just not my 'cup of tea'. Although I know many other straights that like all of that kind of pomp and ceremony! BTW.. I also cant stand the hairy men! hahahaha! There is something about hairy backs that just makes ME shudder! Blech! lol " IF I COULD WISH FOR MY LIFE TO BE PERFECT, IT WOULD BE TEMPTING BUT I WOULD HAVE TO DECLINE, FOR LIFE WOULD NO LONGER TEACH ME ANYTHING."
Allyson Jones |
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MothandRust
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Re：Poll: What do you now think of homosexuality? Date Posted：22/09/2006 5:41 PMCopy HTML The two religious 'camps' and their view of homosexuality (pun intented)Conservative and liberal Christians interpret the bible differently (and I'm gonna look at them both for ya' all - free of charge). This goes for every topic, but the gay argument stands out. Obviously I'm not gonna change anyone's beliefs with the following articles... most christians have 'fixed' their views, but maybe it'll help people understand opinions that aren't their own, eh?
Instagram and Twitter: @mothpete
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Ex_Member
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Re：Poll: What do you now think of homosexuality? Date Posted：23/09/2006 8:34 AMCopy HTML ...and the Americans never went to the moon, 9/11 was a government conspiracy, UFOs abduct people, God made the world in 7 days, and speaking tin tongues is the sign of receving the Holy Spirit.  |
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MothandRust
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Re：Poll: What do you now think of homosexuality? Date Posted：23/09/2006 10:06 AMCopy HTML
Instagram and Twitter: @mothpete
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dogmafree
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Re：Poll: What do you now think of homosexuality? Date Posted：23/09/2006 12:28 PMCopy HTML The first I've heard of that particular theory about HIV! May be an element of truth in it. I expect not to be in any areas of risk anyways, so it doesn't really concern me.
I do find your obsevation about the Brisbane Pastor interesting though. The reported 'breakdown' is not any surprize where someone in his role exhibits any degree of open-minded or free-thinking. The breakdown would be the ultimate result of INNER CONFLICT. Its like getting a tin can and bending it back and forth until it finally breaks. Anyone reading this that is in an organisation that has a set belief system and harbours secret opposing opinions............. WATCH OUT! Get out and get real before you too become a casualty! the Dog. "for there is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so" Shakespeare (Hamlet, Act 2, Scene 2)
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Anonymous
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Re：Poll: What do you now think of homosexuality? Date Posted：23/09/2006 6:33 PMCopy HTML Reply to : bindi
Did you not read this ? You are obviously a women with issues (unless your a gay man) You called yourself Marge (as in spread too thin ??) Robert Gallo now says that HIV is not alone responsible for AIDS !! He says that another virus is needed, and the 2 combined viruses cuase AIDS. Thats what he NOW says - looking for more moeny (how much money can a man have ?) He is obviously just covering his tracks - unlike our IP addresses :-) BUT, he has still to provide proff positive of the first virus, let alone the second virus. Don't believe me ? I could care less. True, there are a host of other nasty diseases lurking in the loins of our disaffected youths, don't need somehing like HIV to mess up our lives. I do find it amusing almost, that something that does not exist is causing so much chaos. Homosexuals are the worst here, putting pressure on the Goverments to put more money into HIV research. The last thing a doctor would do today is to blame a LYFESTYLE choice or a bad lifestyle as the reason for someones sickness. Who actually goes for HIV tests anyway ? The majority of people who go, go becuase they are feeling ill - a good chance of having antibodies present when you feel ill. Voila - a false positive result; http://www.virusmyth.net/aids/data/cjtestfp.htm http://www.goaskalice.columbia.edu/1809.html ( a bit dodgy this one, ELIZA and Western Blot both use the same test parameters, only Western Blot looks at a specific chain of protiens - it just looks for a glycoprotien !) Western Blot ALSO comes with a disclaimer ! http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/10/health/10aids.html?ex=1159243200&en=9d41642246e9ae40&ei=5070 http://www.aids.org/atn/a-375-04.html - shows how "Current ELISAs can detect relatively low levels of antibodies"... http://www.currentconcerns.ch/archive/20010335.php - sows how the same test (ELIZA) was used to test for foot and mouth, another lifestyle condition Should I continue, or is bindi so sour that she can't read anything except baiting - (hey, maybe bindi is the Turret Kid, makes sense) ANON OF COURSE USE OF EXCESSIVE CAPITALS IS LIKE USE OF EXCESSIVE FORCE |
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MothandRust
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Re：Poll: What do you now think of homosexuality? Date Posted：23/09/2006 10:08 PMCopy HTML Reply to : Anonymous
There's a christian school of thought that Aids was sent by God to punish the homosexuals and their lifestyle. Just for fun, let's see what the bible says about it... (I realise I"m arguing with nobody in particular here.. nevertheless...) The best question we could ask would be the one the disciples asked about the man born blind, "Who did sin?" "Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him" John 9:1-3 To believe that God sent AIDS, but not cancer, diabetes, high blood pressure, or sickle cell anemia is to identify only a few groups of people in our society and say that God wants to destroy them. (This belief also ignores the fact that lesbians are not among the groups at risk.) - another two cents from the moth. Instagram and Twitter: @mothpete
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bindi
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Re：Poll: What do you now think of homosexuality? Date Posted：24/09/2006 10:32 AMCopy HTML
First quote from previous post by anon of course, AikenD, or anonymous.. Whatever name he prefers to go by at the time...Quote... " Im sorry about the baiting thing... I PROMISE I wont do it again.... " Second quote by same person in recent post...."You are obviously a women with issues (unless your a gay man)You called yourself Marge (as in spread too thin ??)" Thats not baiting me again???? YES.. I freely admit I have issues. Im working on those I assure you. Ive come to realize by reading some of the varied posts you and others have sent that maybe Im not the ONLY one with 'issues'?? We ALL have them! Maybe thats why we come to this site. To help us move on.. get over them and become a better person in the end. "Should I continue, or is bindi so sour that she can't read anything except baiting - (hey, maybe bindi is the Turret Kid, makes sense) " By the way guys... Im sorry to have to do this but its bugging the heck outta me! Its TOURETTES syndrome.. Not TURRETS! Hahahahaha!
" IF I COULD WISH FOR MY LIFE TO BE PERFECT, IT WOULD BE TEMPTING BUT I WOULD HAVE TO DECLINE, FOR LIFE WOULD NO LONGER TEACH ME ANYTHING."
Allyson Jones |
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bindi
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#17
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Re：Poll: What do you now think of homosexuality? Date Posted：24/09/2006 1:32 PMCopy HTML
Hi Te...Glad there is no offence taken as I would hate that! I think we ALL have a mild case of it judging by some of the posts here! I think we BOTH have the correct spelling here either way.. but those guys didn't!
" IF I COULD WISH FOR MY LIFE TO BE PERFECT, IT WOULD BE TEMPTING BUT I WOULD HAVE TO DECLINE, FOR LIFE WOULD NO LONGER TEACH ME ANYTHING."
Allyson Jones |
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Anonymous
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Re：Poll: What do you now think of homosexuality? Date Posted：24/09/2006 5:06 PMCopy HTML $%*'`[Anon of Course]%*'`@Reply to : bindi
Very sorry dear, as I wrote elsewhere, I was rather pissed off at being shown the bad side of what I thought was a great bunch. A real anti climax as they say. Hope you can ignore and forget my bad attitude.
Absolutely, could not agree more.
Well, I was molested as a 12 year old kid, so I probably hate gays because of that, but I have NEVER let ANYONE tell me what to do since then. But THANK you for showing me how nice some people can be, I did try hard to wind some up, VERY SORRY ANON OF COURSE |
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bindi
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Re：Poll: What do you now think of homosexuality? Date Posted：24/09/2006 8:02 PMCopy HTML
"Well, I was molested as a 12 year old kid, so I probably hate gays...." AOC... Im so very, very sorry. My step sister was molested too.. but from her step father. ( Not MY dad, ( God rest his soul) But from her mothers husband. (My step sister lived with my mother and her father )Its a painful, painful time and Im very sorry you had to go through that. But.. I must say, and not to cause offence to you at all, but rather to help you realize that not ALL gays are molesters. Just like not ALL men are rapists, Not ALL people, no matter what there sexual orientation is, are not bad. I was raped when I was 14, but that does make me hate all men. We are all here to help each other.. sometimes it gets heated! regards.. Bindi.. AKA Marge.. " IF I COULD WISH FOR MY LIFE TO BE PERFECT, IT WOULD BE TEMPTING BUT I WOULD HAVE TO DECLINE, FOR LIFE WOULD NO LONGER TEACH ME ANYTHING."
Allyson Jones |
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MothandRust
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#20
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Re：Poll: What do you now think of homosexuality? Date Posted：24/09/2006 10:00 PMCopy HTML
Instagram and Twitter: @mothpete
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Anon of Course
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Re：Poll: What do you now think of homosexuality? Date Posted：24/09/2006 10:03 PMCopy HTML Reply to : bindi
- No need, but thanks for being so kind
Fully aware but good to hear again Good to read that you at least are recovering.
- I am a bastard sometimes, but only on certain themes, homosexuality being one of them, still trying to forgive, hard though, so hard.
Mothandrust has already extolled your good virtues - could be the same person :-) In fact, bindi, mothandrust, Turret Boy and the moderator could all be the same person (and I thought I was schizophrenic) That last comment was just a joke, please take it as such - mothandrust is proving to be a real tonic actually, and your last conversation also... Just a pity Turret Boy isn't joining in the good times. Look forward to adding something constructive in the future, you do sound sweet bindi, many thanks Anon of Course To see victory only when it is within the ken of the common herd is not the acme of excellence.
Sun Tzu |
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Anon of Course
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Re：Poll: What do you now think of homosexuality? Date Posted：24/09/2006 10:03 PMCopy HTML Reply to : bindi
- No need, but thanks for being so kind
Fully aware but good to hear again Good to read that you at least are recovering.
- I am a bastard sometimes, but only on certain themes, homosexuality being one of them, still trying to forgive, hard though, so hard.
Mothandrust has already extolled your good virtues - could be the same person :-) In fact, bindi, mothandrust, Turret Boy and the moderator could all be the same person (and I thought I was schizophrenic) That last comment was just a joke, please take it as such - mothandrust is proving to be a real tonic actually, and your last conversation also... Just a pity Turret Boy isn't joining in the good times. Look forward to adding something constructive in the future, you do sound sweet bindi, many thanks Anon of Course To see victory only when it is within the ken of the common herd is not the acme of excellence.
Sun Tzu |
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Ex_Member
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#23
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Re：Poll: What do you now think of homosexuality? Date Posted：24/09/2006 10:09 PMCopy HTML
Did any of your family have a hand in the slaughter of the Jews? Oh, I am sorry, was that insensitive? Still, losing two world wars AND misplacing 6 million Jews. Not a very good first half was it? |
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Anonymous
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#24
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Re：Poll: What do you now think of homosexuality? Date Posted：24/09/2006 11:17 PMCopy HTML $%*'`[Anon of Course]%*'`@Reply to : Te Luo Yi
I believe that my father was an SS Obergruppenf?rer = Senior Group Leader. I do believe that he personally decimated 100's in Czestochowa. Hmm, I am not actually german myself, but the child of an italian women who was raped by a german. My mother told me this when I was 14 - she has been looked after by her parents, and so have I - no nice upbringing for me - no father to protect me, no nice mother to give me hugs (she hated me, but I don't blame her - I would also hate the bastard offspring of a german) How much of MY life story do you actually believe (not that I give a shit) - you choose a chinese name, not that your chinese yourself - how do you know I am really german? Look at how I write, is that germanic,no? Are you pissed off because I made a joke at the expense of Touret, tourette, Turret or whatever the f**k is wrong with him's syndrome ? Andyouforwritingyourwordstogether ? Don't be pissed off, I am a nasty piece of work, not nice at all - But here is a beauty: As an asshole named Confucius once said "Even when walking in the company of two other men, I am bound to be able to learn from them. The good points of the one I copy; the bad points of the other I correct in myself." In the 17th and 18th Centuary, there was a disease rampant in the world called "pellagra" - sufferers from were known as pellagrins (I think this is the correct spelling)- Sufferers were put into bedlam, lunatic asylums that is, as the first stage of the disease was confusion, depression, madness. Second stage was horrible lesions on the skin. Death was the final outcome. The wisdom of the day said "a virus" and pellagrins were shunned. Dr. Joseph Goldberger (a jew) and a virologist however, did not agree and went on to prove that it was nothing more than a deficiency in niacin (vitamin B3). It took until early 1940 for the doctors to admit this. Today however we have a massive Mental Health industry again, employing 1000's of so called experts, who don't have a fucking clue and who never ask, but just presume, and spend 1000000's again on stupid drugs, instead of sorting out the basics. So, before you go around feeling over sensitive for people with vitamin deficiencies, try taking the can of cola away from them, and get them to embark on a voyage of health (mental)- MAYBE THEN THEY WILL STOP SHOUTIONG FOR NO REASON Anon of course |
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Ex_Member
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#25
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Re：Poll: What do you now think of homosexuality? Date Posted：25/09/2006 9:15 AMCopy HTML
Yeah, yeah, yeah...and I was raised by wolves in the darkest regions of the Indian jungle. My name is Mawgli and I have a bear friend named Balou. He lives on the bare necessities. I have some friends on here who say you're a good guy, so I am gonna believe them. Welcome to the forums sitrrer. |
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Anonymous
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#26
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Re：Poll: What do you now think of homosexuality? Date Posted：25/09/2006 4:57 PMCopy HTML $%*'`[Anon of Course]%*'`@Reply to : Te Luo Yi
A good guy ??? Believe them but not me ? :-) Which friends ? I presume mothandrust (a very warm fellow) and bindi, who I have been able to make peace with I think and hope A good thing that you do not believe me, I only ever write a load of rubbish (except when it gets down to so called viruses etc) you do not have to believe ANYTHING I say actually. There were one or two truths (molested as a kid, having problems forgiving gays because of this) and that I am a real bastard, thats all true, the rest was just a wind up (a reaction to mocking) My wife works in the Mental Health industry (INDUSTRY) and she knows full well what a scam it is - we have many interesting discussions about this theme - she knows that I am correct, but won't leave (she does not realize that everything she tells me is stored in a little book) So, nice to meet you, you should really look into the role that minerals (manganase, zinc, magnesium) and vitamins (B5,B7 &B12) - to name a few - play in mental health - manganese especially is absolutely needed in proper mental health. I think your cousin would benfit greatly from such things - and what I write here is NO JOKE mate, neither is it a wind up Anon of Course |
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MothandRust
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#27
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Re：Poll: What do you now think of homosexuality? Date Posted：15/10/2006 10:18 AMCopy HTML
A cut and paste article for now, but a good one... Join us in the other thread to continue the discussion (CLICK HERE)
Taken from another ex-cult help website - http://escapefromwatchtower.com/homo.html Instagram and Twitter: @mothpete
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Anonymous
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#28
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Re：Poll: What do you now think of homosexuality? Date Posted：22/10/2006 6:29 PMCopy HTML Reply to : bindi
Sorry bindi - I don't want to attack here, but there is absolutely NO scientific evidence for this AT ALL - only some very much lied about study from Dean Hamer, himself a homosexual. The research project in 1993 that indicated many gay men shared a common genetic marker in the X chromosome was termed a scientific discovery. Six years later, however, the gene still has not been found. The only research team to confirm the original 1993 results was the same team of scientists, Hamer and his team at NCI. Hamer's paper is even careful to not state that he has found a "homosexual gene;" they merely have an area in the gene sequencing which appears in many of his test subjects. Hamer still has no clue where the gene is exactly or what it does. Of the identified region in Xq28 the gene they may be looking for is in a sequence approximately 4 million base pairs long and may be only one of hundreds of genes in that particular area. As you now bindi, I hate and love these guys, have real problems listening to them tell people that they were born that way when science says they were not Anon of Course |
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MothandRust
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Re：Poll: What do you now think of homosexuality? Date Posted：30/10/2006 1:43 PMCopy HTML By Alister Doyle, Environment Correspondent Thu Oct 12, 8:46 AM ET OSLO (Reuters) - The birds and the bees may be gay, according to the world's first museum exhibition about homosexuality among animals With documentation of gay or lesbian behavior among giraffes, penguins, parrots, beetles, whales and dozens of other creatures, the Oslo Natural History Museum concludes human homosexuality cannot be viewed as "unnatural." "We may have opinions on a lot of things, but one thing is clear -- homosexuality is found throughout the animal kingdom, it is not against nature," an exhibit statement said. Geir Soeli, the project leader of the exhibition entitled "Against Nature," told Reuters: "Homosexuality has been observed for more than 1,500 animal species, and is well documented for 500 of them." The museum said the exhibition, opening on Thursday despite condemnation from some Christians, was the first in the world on the subject. Soeli said a Dutch zoo had once organised tours to view homosexual couples among the animals. "The sexual urge is strong in all animals. ... It's a part of life, it's fun to have sex," Soeli said of the reasons for homosexuality or bisexuality among animals. One exhibit shows two stuffed female swans on a nest -- birds sometimes raise young in homosexual couples, either after a female has forsaken a male mate or donated an egg to a pair of males. One photograph shows two giant erect penises flailing above the water as two male right whales rub together. Another shows a male giraffe mounting another for sex, another describes homosexuality among beetles. BURN IN HELL One radical Christian said organizers of the exhibition -- partly funded by the Norwegian government -- should "burn in hell," Soeli said. Laws describing homosexuality as a "crime against nature" are still on the statutes in some countries. Greek philosopher Aristotle noted apparent homosexual behavior among hyenas 2,300 years ago but evidence of animal homosexuality has often been ignored by researchers, perhaps because of distaste, lack of interest or fear or ridicule. Bonobos, a type of chimpanzee, are among extremes in having sex with either males or females, apparently as part of social bonding. "Bonobos are bisexuals, all of them," Soeli said. Still, it is unclear why homosexuality survives since it seems a genetic dead-end. Among theories, males can sometimes win greater acceptance in a pack by having homosexual contact. That in turn can help their chances of later mating with females, he said. And a study of homosexual men in Italy suggested that their mothers and sisters had more offspring. "The same genes that give homosexuality in men could give higher fertility among women," he said
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MothandRust
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Re：Poll: What do you now think of homosexuality? Date Posted：21/04/2007 5:44 PMCopy HTML
Yep, from a christian point of view Judging others is as dangerous as blasphemy (whatever that mystery sin is). There's plenty of don'ts in the good ol' book eh? The limited verses that mention homosexuality are about as clear as god saying thou shalt not kill, then giving Israel instructions to go into the land of their enemies and destory everyone, along with their children and livestock. I wouldn't want to live my life according to the Old Testament. As for the new testament, I like what Jesus said, but Paul can go jump. His attitudes towards homosexuality were as culturally and personally written as his comments on women were. As a literalist believer of the bible I suppose you perhaps shouldn't be a homosexual Brolga. As for society, well, if it were the society you are thinking of, it isn't reality. People, monkeys, bulls and dolphins will continue to humpulump whoever are consenting to them... sadly and tragically some non-consenting too... but that's reality. Society will be much better off if we don't stop people from loving each however they will. Irresponsible Heterosexuals are not anymore holier than irresponsible homosexual. Studies show that society is certainly not advantaged by following bible precedents to the letter. The bible shows that as a people, we have always been discriminatory to the minorities in our society. The attitudes of those verses are testament to that. Quote from someone who commented on my blog:
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MothandRust
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Re：Poll: What do you now think of homosexuality? Date Posted：21/04/2007 6:22 PMCopy HTML 10 Best reasons Gay Marriage is wrong: 1. Being gay is not natural. Real Americans always reject unnatural things like eyeglasses, polyester, and air conditioning.2. Gay marriage will encourage people to be gay, in the same way that hanging around tall people will make you tall. 3. Legalizing gay marriage will open the door to all kinds of crazy behavior. People may even wish to marry their pets because a dog has legal standing and can sign a marriage contract. 4. Straight marriage has been around a long time and hasn't changed at all; women are still property, blacks still can't marry whites, and divorce is still illegal. 5. Straight marriage will be less meaningful if gay marriage were allowed; the sanctity of Britany Spears' 55-hour just-for-fun marriage would be destroyed. 6. Straight marriages are valid because they produce children. Gay couples, infertile couples, and old people shouldn't be allowed to marry because our orphanages aren't full yet, and the world needs more children. 7. Obviously gay parents will raise gay children, since straight parents only raise straight children. 8. Gay marriage is not supported by religion. In a theocracy like ours, the values of one religion are imposed on the entire country. That's why we have only one religion in America. 9. Children can never succeed without a male and a female role model at home. That's why we as a society expressly forbid single parents to raise children. 10. Gay marriage will change the foundation of society; we could never adapt to new social norms. Just like we haven't adapted to cars, the service-sector economy, or longer life spans.  Instagram and Twitter: @mothpete
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break free
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Re：Poll: What do you now think of homosexuality? Date Posted：21/04/2007 6:37 PMCopy HTML i dont have an issue with gay marrage, i always thought if two people want to get married they should be able to- and then they can get taxed like other married people mwahahahahaha (evil laughter) cause two single men sharing a house dont get taxed anywhere near as much as a married couple- and our government says they support straight people lol just like they want women to have more children, but make it impossible for you to live on one persons income- who wants to be a baby factory and work full time to pay the bills? (ok i might still have issues with my role as woman after revival) oh... sorry moth for hijacking your thread and having my own little rant.... |
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MothandRust
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Re：Poll: What do you now think of homosexuality? Date Posted：21/04/2007 11:03 PMCopy HTML
Fair enough. I don't believe the bible was a divinely transcribed instruction book to mankind set as a blueprint for us to run our lives by. Glaring contradictions in the way it's god behaves and the way it would instruct us to behave convince me of that. Don't do as I do, do as I say sort of thing. But, I do believe the book was a construct of moral and ethical concepts that had passed down through the ages due to the mistakes of predecessors. Ancient mythologies of work and reward also kept and evolved the stories to a point where a lot of wisdom could be collated and collected into an assortment of conveniant truths with the invention of the printing press. The worlds always had a percentage of crap in it. WE've just never had this amount of people on teh planet before... therefore more crap and more minds that were able to work together and develop nuclear bombs and automatic pistols. Perhaps if more gay people weren't forbidden we wouldn't have this many people fighting for space and water. lol Instagram and Twitter: @mothpete
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light and dark
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Re：Poll: What do you now think of homosexuality? Date Posted：22/04/2007 4:54 PMCopy HTML
Hi SfJ Yes Homosexuality is a sin, but to say that no homosexual will go to heaven is a VERY strong statement to make without any biblical fact to back it up. That is like saying that no murderers will go to heaven. The fact of the matter is forgiveness of sins through Jesus and a true repentance is the only way for anyone to enter heaven. Jesus loved the sinner not the sin and all of us have and do fall short of the Glory. It is through Grace that we are forgiven throught the covering of the blood of the lamb not through anything we can say or do. I believe that there are many homosexuals who are going to heaven - repentance and turning away from your sinful nature does not mean that you can always completely let go of your past - you just have to let God transform you from the inside out and that can take time and a lot of stumbling on the way. Have you ever heard Sy Rogers speak? He preaches on the topic and is amazing (Sy was homosexual and found God and now has a wife and daughter). The point is that God meets us where we are and he makes the change in us through the Holy Spirit. For homosexuals and anyone with an extreme sinful past - especially if they have a background of abuse, the journey can be much longer than for others. Jesus is the only one who can say who is and isn't going to heaven and I think that the results in the end will be supprising.
For you were once darkness,
Now you are the light in the LORD Live as Children of Light. Ephisians 5:8 |
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Tiffany Roche
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Re：Poll: What do you now think of homosexuality? Date Posted：22/04/2007 5:20 PMCopy HTML 1Co 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,1Co 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
Good News Bible below... 1Co 6:9 Surely you know that the wicked will not possess God's Kingdom. Do not fool yourselves; people who are immoral or who worship idols or are adulterers or homosexual perverts1Co 6:10 or who steal or are greedy or are drunkards or who slander others or are thieves---none of these will possess God's Kingdom.1Co 6:11 Some of you were like that. But you have been purified from sin; you have been dedicated to God; you have been put right with God by the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
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MothandRust
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Re：Poll: What do you now think of homosexuality? Date Posted：22/04/2007 5:45 PMCopy HTML Reply to : prezy
They didn't have the Oxford back then when they wrote that in the original language, and to compare homosexuality to paedophiles is truly offensive. The religious need nothing but their faith. In order to embrace faith, they necessarily abandon original thought. Therefore there is no way to get through to them. There will be religion for as long as fear and ignorance exist and their will be intolerance for others and 'hate' for anyone who doesn't fit the christian image as long as the bible is taken literally. God is forgiven for his murders and crimes and the hate towards anyone not of the 'chosen' nation israel. Babies murdered and all manner of bible evils are ignored unless they feed the human desire to segregate and divide. Instagram and Twitter: @mothpete
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MothandRust
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Re：Poll: What do you now think of homosexuality? Date Posted：27/04/2007 4:40 PMCopy HTML What the Bible Says About Homosexuality. In biblical times, same-gender sexual interactions could take many forms. Some were: 1. kings of conquered tribes were sometimes raped by the invading army as the ultimate symbol of defeat and humiliation. 2. some non-Jewish tribes in the area had male prostitutes in their temples that may have engaged in same-sex activities; this horrified the ancient Israelites. 3. it is reasonable to assume that many loving gay and lesbian relationships existed, but these would normally have been conducted in secret. Only the third type would have any similarity to today's gay and lesbian consentual, committed, loving relationships. Many versions of the Bible exist in the English language. Each reflects the world view, beliefs and mind sets of its translators. Their personal biases distort their work. There is an additional complexity facing translators: today's society is very different from that of Biblical times. It is sometimes difficult to find a current English word that matches a Hebrew or Greek term. Many words have been translated from the original Hebrew and Greek texts as "homosexual", "sodomite", "homosexuality". However, most (perhaps all) of the references bear no similarity to today's lesbian and gay partnerships. By carefully reading the original texts and considering the societies in which they were written, one comes to surprising conclusions: * The Bible has a lot to say about temple prostitution. * It talks about being kind to strangers in a way that has been incorrectly interpreted as referring to homosexual acts * It says almost nothing about homosexual feelings; * It says nothing about sexual orientation. The writers of the Bible assumed that everyone was heterosexual (or "straight"); the concept of sexual orientation was not developed until the late 19th century.
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MothandRust
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Re：Poll: What do you now think of homosexuality? Date Posted：27/04/2007 6:54 PMCopy HTML
I think i've brought up every scripture there is on the subject in this thread already... and I've been nice enough to put some ideas on the thread for us to discuss. You do know what discussion means don't you? Telling someone to go away and do their homework isn't really in the spirit of it. Have you read through the whole thread? There's some good forum etiquette... especially the parts on liberal vs conservative christian views. That's important for this subject... as closing your mind into literalism will feed the hate you admit to seeing in christendom around you. have a look at the points I've already brought up and let's have some discussion on them eh? Feel free to reply on those topics or bring some more up.  wonder if your average Christian fundy would be okay with homosexual lovers who didn't actually have sex? Is it okay to love your partner as long as you don't put the sausage in the buns? Is it the anal sex that mainly upsets God and his flocking followers? What if (as I've mentioned before) you use a really thick condom so there is not actual skin on skin? No, that's probably silly... I wouldn't want to get silly.
Is anal sex completely out? Even for husband and wife? 'Cause it seems to work well. If that's forbidden due to what is considered an unnatural act then the anus really should have been designed differently I think. My inflatable raft has valves so that when you blow it up, the air can't go out.. only in. Camels evolved this way also, to keep sand out of their nostrils. I think if God was really serious about not having penile insertions in one's anus he should have put the exit hole in an awkward place, and with a outlet valve only, and not made it so our Johnny Rockets couldn't fit. Bible passages describing same-sex marriage:There are none! You can scan from the beginning of Genesis to the end of Revelation, and not see even a single same-sex marriage mentioned. The Bible does contain:
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Tiffany Roche
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Re：Poll: What do you now think of homosexuality? Date Posted：27/04/2007 7:36 PMCopy HTML
Hi anyone that's still reading this thread............. I Have to say..... I really don't think God meant for it to happen at all. He made our private parts to fit each other- Most people know what goes where. The function of the anus is to push out "number 2's"....Not to insert -whatever- into it. I believe that sex is good- if done lovingly between two married people, (male and female.) Sex becomes bad news- when people do the deed out of marriage...( before marriage-.... commiting adultery....doing perverted things... I think that sex + love (real love 1corinthians 13-style)= good. I think sex + lust etc. = bad. Lust and strong uncontrolled desire- impatience- selfishness-wicked thoughts/fantasies)...all ruin the goodness of sex. I just can't figure out how some people can read the Bible and come out with the idea that homosexual relationships are fine. Open your eyes. If you want to believe that homosexuality is ok- then believe it-...but don't make out that the Bible supports it in any way.
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MothandRust
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Re：Poll: What do you now think of homosexuality? Date Posted：27/04/2007 7:46 PMCopy HTML
omg... you said Shining for Jesus: ps-Im glad youre not teachin my kids!!!! ahhahahahahaha but seriously!! My reply - I wouldn't like to be your husband!!!! hahahhahahaha but seriously!! Lust is my opinion is fire, passion, zest... you're so eager to make everything sinful and dirty and obscene. He made our private parts to fit each other- Most people know what goes where. So oral sex is out too eh and anal even though bits fit. You and the bible both can't tell people what to stick where? Are there instructions on where you can use or stick a tongue? Heck... missionary position only for you eh girl? The Bible does mention homosexual behavior in extremely negative terms in a handful of widely scattered verses, but modern research has turned up considerable evidence casting doubt on the traditional interpretation of these passages - an interpretation that has borne tragic consqeuences for homosexuals throughout almost the whole of Christian history. The purpose here is to examine this evidence, together with some of the light science has shed on the subject of psychosexual development, in the hope that it will lead to a more informed appraisal. Instagram and Twitter: @mothpete
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Tiffany Roche
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Re：Poll: What do you now think of homosexuality? Date Posted：27/04/2007 8:22 PMCopy HTML mothboy, I explained- lust...(with all the other negative things..impatience etc..) I think that is the bad version of sex. .... Yeh, lust that's passionate etc with love... is cool- I knew this'd be brought up next. I think I'm gonna keep my mouth shut about this part... This is one of those private topics for private discussion between me and my husband- not everyone else! ....anyway what's wrong with being a missionary girl!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I don't think I'll comment about my views on this. I've already stated that I think anal sex etc. is wrong. I'll move the topic along to masturbation.......(aaagh now that's a dirty word!!!!!) I think it's wrong. I think that fantasizing about stuff (while you do it) is wrong. If you aren't married- be tough. Operate self control..... I cannot picture Jesus and Paul doing it. Think on what is pure, holy , noble and right.... You'll go blind
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no1home
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Re：Poll: What do you now think of homosexuality? Date Posted：27/04/2007 8:27 PMCopy HTML So let me get this straight... you don't want to encourage 'perverted' threads like these and you don't want to talk about things you consider dirty, so you then change the subject to masturbation.
I'm confused. Actually no I'm not, I think you just want to preach at everyone so they'll bite back so you can then claim the moral high ground! |
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Uncoolman
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Re：Poll: What do you now think of homosexuality? Date Posted：27/04/2007 8:36 PMCopy HTML
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MothandRust
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Re：Poll: What do you now think of homosexuality? Date Posted：27/04/2007 8:52 PMCopy HTML
I'd love to talk about masturbation Shining but could you start up another thread for that one and leave it out of here. Earth, you're discouraging education of things all things sexual in another thread yet you're asking me to do homework on it here. Could you make it easier for me and quote the scripture in Acts you're referring to? That'd be nice and discussional. While I'm waiting I'll put some others to you and pinpoint them for your scrutiny. See I'm a teacher... I have to give the kids a list of websites to research or all they do is Wikipedia it all. The only three remaining Biblical passages after your Acts one that conceivably touch on homosexual behaviour are found in I Corinthians 6:9, I Timothy 1:10, and Romans 1:18-32. What do you think of those ones? and here are some exerpts from Walter Barnett's book of which I've already quoted... quite the eye-opener. Homosexuality and the Bible, An Interpretation Part 2 The critical fact generally unknown to or overlooked by heterosexuals is that homosexuality is something quite distinct from homosexual behaviour and even from homosexual desires or lust. Homosexuality is an emotional and affectional orientation towards people of the same sex. It may or may not involve sexual acts, though of course it usually does. On the other hand, homosexual acts can be and are performed by both homosexuals AND heterosexuals, and homosexual desire or lust is probably experienced by most heterosexuals. (The most common instances of extensive homosexual behaviour by hetersexuals ofccur in those situations such as prisons where heterosexual partners are unavailable.) This is why those who possess this same-sex emotional orientation abjure the term homosexual and call themselves by their own slang word, Gay. The word homosexual for them overemphasizes the specifically sexual element in their feelings. Because it was coined by the scientific community to label them, it also carries overtones of clinical pathology which they reject. Since 1974 the American Psychiatric Association and the American Psychological Association have both officially disavowed this implication of the label, but the Gay community continues to reject the word. So even in general usages "gay" is replacing "homosexual" just as "black" or "Afro-American" has replaced "Negro". Instagram and Twitter: @mothpete
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MothandRust
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Re：Poll: What do you now think of homosexuality? Date Posted：28/04/2007 11:26 AMCopy HTML
These are classic arguments. They have to make it work so the wicked act they peceive between consenting adults is "harmful" to justify their need to make homosexuality wicked. One that always makes me laugh is the idea that gay people spread AIDS but the spread of AIDS is very much a HETEROsexual concern, with more women falling victim each year. That doesn't matter becasue straight wasn't wrong; and gay was still "wrong." So, the made up harm and unnatural concepts to fill in the holes. it's still "bad" because "god says it's bad." Well, my invisible pink unicorn says different and I'm transcribing a bible from her very words. Always reminds me of that fundy woman from wife/swap or swapping spouse show... She called everything wicked and unnatural and godless. Instagram and Twitter: @mothpete
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dogmafree
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Re：Poll: What do you now think of homosexuality? Date Posted：28/04/2007 4:09 PMCopy HTML Yeah, I saw an episode of that 'wife swap' show a few weeks ago, where a couple of gay guys swapped with a fundamentalist family. The gay guys sure made the others look like a couple of wallys (to put it mildly).
Let us all see the MENTAL in fundaMENTALists! Had a fairly positive outcome though, with a lot of mental barriers broken down. Dog. "for there is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so" Shakespeare (Hamlet, Act 2, Scene 2)
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Uncoolman
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Re：Poll: What do you now think of homosexuality? Date Posted：28/04/2007 5:14 PMCopy HTML I don't and wouldn't, but for any that might be having conviction about this, here is judgment from the word......... Viz: Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled:.............. Hebrews 13: v4 |
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MothandRust
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Re：Poll: What do you now think of homosexuality? Date Posted：28/04/2007 6:00 PMCopy HTML
Yep, that's the scripture I was thinking about but didn't quote because I wasn't completely sure about what 'undefiled' really meant in it's original context or blah... Sounds to me like DIFFERENT STROKES FOR DIFFERENT FOLKS. Instagram and Twitter: @mothpete
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Uncoolman
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Re：Poll: What do you now think of homosexuality? Date Posted：28/04/2007 6:26 PMCopy HTML Possibly more in the context of the rest of that verse. I don't know. The scripture I think sums up everything is happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth. Romans 14:22 A privilege for believers of course. |
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bindi
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Re：Poll: What do you now think of homosexuality? Date Posted：29/04/2007 3:35 PMCopy HTML
"...I think sex + lust etc. = bad. Lust and strong uncontrolled desire- impatience- selfishness-wicked thoughts/fantasies)...all ruin the goodness of sex" "...Sex becomes bad news- when people do the deed out of marriage...( before marriage-.... commiting adultery....doing perverted things" Hmmm...... SFJ.... What a shame that you think sex and lust is so bad. I'm in a loving, wholesome, faithful relationship. No, I'm NOT married in the 'legal' sense but 'married' in MY eyes. I don't have a piece of paper to state that I'm committed to one person. I WAS married but it was a very unhealthy marriage and my partner now ( not religious in any way, shape or form ) has all of the good qualities that the bible describes a good husband to be. FAR more than my 'spirit-filled' ex husband! ( I'm not here to bad mouth my ex. We get on very well now as friends! Just making a point ) And.. I very much LUST after my partner! Lust is not 'dirty' or 'bad'. Its a healthy desire to want to be with that person. I love him AND lust after him. Lets have a look at what the dictionary ( Websters )says about 'lust'. " Pleasure... bodily appetite; esp.' strong sexual desire. an intense desire. to feel intense desire. " I don't know about anyone else but to my knowledge, to lust is to simply have a strong desire. Whats so filthy about that?? And you made a comment about 'fantasies' being bad a s well? I think some fantasies can spice up a relationship! I'm not talking about bringing someone else into the action. Good on ya if you like that sort of thing! I'm not judging here but thats not my cup of tea, but carrying out fantasies ( playing different roles etc ) can really be lots of fun!
"...I'll move the topic along to masturbation.......(aaagh now that's a dirty word!!!!!) I think it's wrong. I think that fantasizing about stuff (while you do it) is wrong. If you aren't married- be tough. Operate self control..... I cannot picture Jesus and Paul doing it. Think on what is pure, holy , noble and right.... Ohhh... how sad! Just think how many people would be 'put out of fellowship' if masturbation was wrong!? You'd have no one left in the meetings! Also.. if, being a single person, was not allowed to masturbate, they would of ended up fornicating and getting put out anyways! Damned if ya do, damned if ya don't! Thats my two cents worth for the day! " IF I COULD WISH FOR MY LIFE TO BE PERFECT, IT WOULD BE TEMPTING BUT I WOULD HAVE TO DECLINE, FOR LIFE WOULD NO LONGER TEACH ME ANYTHING."
Allyson Jones |
I know he has having a lend of me! He couldn't be THAT naive surely??? Hahahaha!
I get defensive now because I spent so many years of being told what I can and cant do. Can and cant think. "Yes sir, no sir.. sorry for having an opinion sir." I think alot of us here, including yourself can relate to that. We've ALL got/or had, a lot of emotional and spiritual damage done to us. Some get over it quicker than others. Others are still learning. So..my sincere apologies for MY part in these debates! Im waving the white flag here! PEACE AND LOVE!!! 
Just a quote from a website I found..."Our mission at Tourettes-Disorder.com is to give hope and encouragement to those searching to understand Tourette's ( your spelling ) Disorder also referred to as Tourette Syndrome, Tourettes, ( and...MY spelling! lol) and sometimes Tourette Spectrum Disorder. 
KJV above - 
hahahahahahah
if you do it anyway!!!!! That's enough reason to stop it.
