I fully agree and see that there is a need for more ‘Godly’ teachers in the world, even in Orthodox circles.

But may I ask, does all this ‘charismatic dogma’ really deny one’s salvation if they hold to the foundational doctrine of salvation?

After all, we accept the Roman Catholic Church as Christian even with all its “quirky” traditions, so long as they keep to teaching that concerning scripture.

Unlike Revivalists, JWs, etc., I haven’t been aware of any that preach a false gospel. A bit overboard with their “antics” at times, but still the message of Grace, faith, love and charity is expounded.

As a side, in addition to the need for good teachers, there is a need for all Christians to stand up and openly declare the ‘Faith’ they claim to possess (Muslims do) and not be afraid of offending any one for the sake of a better world.

This is why Christianity comes across so dry and weak to the world, even in our society. (That's my opinion anyway)
 

I’m not ashamed to own my Lord.

Ralph,

I fully agree and see that there is a need for more ‘Godly’ teachers in the world, even in Orthodox circles. 'Orthodox'? Or 'orthodox'? But may I ask, does all this ‘charismatic dogma’ really deny one’s salvation if they hold to the foundational doctrine of salvation? After all, we accept the Roman Catholic Church as Christian even with all its “quirky” traditions, so long as they keep to teaching that concerning scripture. I suppose the answer to your question would be, 'it depends'. First, on just how much error a person is prepared to accept whilst still remaining within the pale of biblical Christianity. And second, on which areas of belief/doctrine such error involves. Heresy, strictly speaking, involves the promotion of deficient/false positions relating to the Person and nature of God. This, and this alone stands as the 'foundational' doctrine of importance, not 'salvation' (given that the latter depends on and derives from the former). Now there are quite a few charismatics and charismatic groups who promote some rather erroneous twaddle about the Person and nature of the Holy Spirit. Errors of this sort, then, are heretical. When judged by this standard the Roman Catholic Church is found to be perfectly o-r-t-h-o-d-o-x in her understanding, so your analogy is not only mistaken, but your implied criticism altogether misses the mark. As I've mentioned to you a few times before, there is a taxonomy to doctrine, and cultural issues stand in the 'outer rings' of what's really important.

Unlike Revivalists, JWs, etc., I haven’t been aware of any that preach a false gospel. A bit overboard with their “antics” at times, but still the message of Grace, faith, love and charity is expounded. Then you're lucky. My experience with the charismatic movement is likely a little broader than your own. There are Pentecostal and Charismatic groups whom I've encountered who promote the same rubbish as Revivalism with respect to 'tongues' and the Holy Spirit. And there are more besides who believe as much practically, even though they claim not to theoretically. But do remember that the Gospel is the 'good news' about who Jesus Christ is, what he's done and why he did it. 'Grace, faith, love and charity' are the effects of the Gospel; they are not the substance of the message itself.

As a side, in addition to the need for good teachers, there is a need for all Christians to stand up and openly declare the ‘Faith’ they claim to possess (Muslims do) and not be afraid of offending any one for the sake of a better world. This is why Christianity comes across so dry and weak to the world, even in our society. (That's my opinion anyway). Okay.

I’m not ashamed to own my Lord. Good for you.

Blessings,

Ian

Ian,

Thank you for ironing all that out for me.

For the little understanding I have on ‘O’/’orthodox’, I would say little ‘o’ and even though it may have come across as implied criticism of RCC, was not my intention. I did have the cultural ‘peripheral’ in mind.

Ralph 

Hi, Eric.

It is precisely that point of point of lack of Teachers and good teaching that is so really lacking corporately across the whole body, and even more so within Charismatic circles. And these days my own senior pastor emails me for exegetical advice simply because he cannot read the Greek New Testament and knows nothing of syntax. But of course I respond in a loving way. I would certainly hope so. Personally, I reckon being able to read the Greek New Testament and understanding Greek syntax is much less important a skill to a Christian pastor than is a fervent capacity to love his/her congregants despite their sins, their failings and their weaknesses (pride included). Furthermore it's a sign of spiritual maturity to be able to recognise and then seek the advice of those who have different strengths, gifts and training to one's own.

But you see Ian, much fault of the present situation I feel is due the ministry training environment of current times. In my own senior pastor's case is that he has never studied languages and his only training is limited to just a B.Min. So what if he hasn't studied the biblical languages? They're simply one means to a general end.

To be perfectly honest I think you're being unduly and unnecessarily harsh in your assessment of your pastor, and his skills. For starters, a Bachelor of Ministry degree is nothing to 'sneeze' at given that the curriculum studied for that professional award is intentionally aimed towards equipping candidates for pastoral ministry in Christian churches. Bachelor/Master/Doctor of Theology degrees, on the other hand, are intentionally aimed at preparing people for academic ministries in universities and theological colleges. Both, however, are necessary if the Body of Christ is to be properly taught and led noting, of course, that Christ's primary concern remains the Church and not the Academy. And sadly he has shown reluctance to further his learning through accredited institution. I might suggest that 'accreditation' doesn't necessarily or automatically equal 'quality'. There are any number of parochial Bible Colleges in this country that I could name, which are fully government accredited, and yet I would never dream of recommending them to anyone wishing to gain a half decent education in biblical and theological studies! Furthermore I just happen to be the Director of Studies of a theological college which isn't government accredited. Yet despite this apparent 'impediment' (from your perspective) I'm comfortable based on personal experience that our courses of study are as rigorous as the very best available in the southern hemisphere. There are (accredited) theological colleges in Australia and overseas which apparently agree, given that they welcome our students directly into their Graduate degree programs. Instead the constant visiting of charismatic conferences seems his preferred choice. Well I certainly can't speak to your pastor's apparent preferences in this regard.

However one lesson I personally learned from you some few years back now was the need to be a good steward with the Word of God !!! And that I shall continue to do .. but only through accredited and accountable source.. Again, be careful of naively confusing/blurring 'accreditation' with 'accountability'. In any case it appears that your own pastor is seeking to be held accountable for his stewardship of God's Word, given that he seeks your input with respect to his exegeses. Kudos to him. You can have all your 'junk' conferences and rock concerts and what not hyped up nonsense. I'd rather sweat up a few late nights digging into the journal articles thank you very much.. Well, one certainly needs to be discerning, whether one is reading articles in theological journals or attending this conference or that.

Please remember the need to be gracious, bro'.

Ian