Yes it is interesting. 

A lot of people here have been hurt quite badly by the Revivals.  And most of us have had our identities defined by their teachings.  Upon leaving, we've  had to redefine who we are and what we believe in.  In my case, I've had to rip down all the doctrinal foundations I grew up with and rebuild them all, this will probably be a neverending thing for me.  Some of us, still have families who attend the various Revival groups as well, and still have a lot of the doctrines and lifestyles shoved in our faces, which doesn't help.  We also worry for our families too.

So yes - the impact that the R's had on me will probably be with me for the rest of my life.

I didn't mean to say there were no reasons for you feeling that way only that it is interesting that you do still feel that way.

What kind of impact has it had on you?  Can you elaborate?  What specific issues do you two still face or faced shortly and a long time after leaving?

Can you just let it go or do you feel you can't?

Well "just letting it go" would be too easy.  It certainly would be so much easier for me if that was the case, but  by having to deal with it over time and as I learn to give it over to God and allow God to heal me in HIS time (not mine, or anyone elses) then I can learn and grow from it.  They would be wasted experiences if I just 'let it go', shrugged, and walked away because I wouldn't have learned anything and I wouldn't be the person I am today. 

What is it that I went through?  Well trust, love, compassion, unconditional love, the doctrine, security...basically all the things that should be taught to a child, have had to be retaught.   Do you understand?  When it's been your life and all that you've known, when you've been involved to the point where you WERE JUST LIKE THEM then it is a lot to work throught because you have to relearn it all.  You've had to learn to trust and to be trusted, you have to learn to love and to be loved, you have to learn to show compassion when it's never been shown to you etc.  And all the while you are trying to live your life like other people...work, family, marriage etc.   

Amazing how much Lloyd Longfield looks like Emperor Palpatine...

Sith happens

Reply to : Galien & Calamity Jane

I am glad to see you guys on here again.  Welcome back.

I have to agree with you both that a time in the RCs can be devastating.  I was only in there for four years but it was during my 'wonder years' so to speak and fucked me up good and proper.  of course, the experience itself was nothing compared to the years after of dealing with it, not to mention the issues I brought with me into relationships and even my worldview. 

My consiousness of the RC-type God and his seeming desire to hit us over the head for everything we ever do wrong is something that I carried with me into other church experiences.  Not to mention his desire to send us all to hell for smoking, drinking alcohol or going to another church.  Sure, I realised this was all crap, but underneath it all was developed an idea of God as a monsterous dictator with little or no compassion for our failings and short-comings.  This is something I still wrestle with even though I am not a Xian (I do believe in a deity of some kind).

I guess the biggest issue I deal with now is a sense of 'where would I be now had I not been in the RCI?'  I can't help but feel that my life would have somehow been better.  I would have been far more balanced as an individual.  I am not saying that I cannot function now because what they did to me and gave me, but I do wonder what might have been and what kind of pain I could have been spared had I not been a Revivalist.  Sometimes I think that if it hadn't been the RCI experience then it would have been something else.  I mean, everyone has a story right?  Adversity and obstacles to overcome.  Others, who never even heard of the RCI, have far worse life stories than mine.  I sometimes think that this is just the way life has turned out for me.  Bbut that's hardly an attempt to let the RCI off the hook.  Just because there are other evil sons-of-bitches out there doesn't mean the RCI are blameless or any less sons-of-bitches. 

Hey, this is our saga and we even have a web forum.

MrJ

Oh yes the biggest thing that I have had to learn is how much grace God REALLY has.  Like there's no limit to it.  None at all!!  And all the 'hell and damnation' that I was taught was all a lie all this time and I still find that I fall into the habit of thinking that I'm not good enough and that I will never measure up to this great 'cop-in-the-sky' but that's just bad habits though   I know the truth now thankfully.

I've thought about this time and time again.  But you know what?  Maybe my life would have been better I don't know but I do think that I wouldn't be the compassionate understanding person I am today had I not gone through it.  I kinda like the person I've become - warts and all   And as you said, if it wasn't the R experience then it may have been something else anyway.

What you have to realize now that you have left is that according to their narrow world view , the RCI membership class you as "having fallen away" .... Nice recognition to be labeled with and when you take them to task with the scriptures when you come across them in the streets, they (ie the current blind ones who are current members) run and duck for cover.... and then of course you get the shunning...   but that's a small insignificant price to pay for desiring truth...

stay that way for now

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i know some people who have left and are completely over it. it doesn't bother them and they haven't become self-destructive.

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I don't believe this to be true.  I think that people can be more damaged than they are willing to admit.  Just because they're not running around crying about it doesn't mean it doesn't bother them.  Sometimes I think that it's just plain denial and I worry for them if/when the time comes when the full realisation of what they were involved with finally hits home. 

I agree 100%.  I know lots of ex-RCs who never confront it.  Some leave church completely and others are happy to get straight into another church.  They say they have left it all behind but are quite obviously a mess.  You're right Calamity, they are just refusing to deal with it.  I believe one has to confront and deal with the experience to truly move on.  And not just the theology but also the practices.

The RCs themselves are the biggest propoments of this.  They wonder why we can't just 'leave them alone'.  They take no responsibility for the damage they have done to people.  But I guess to do so would be to admit error and to truly admit error would be a stepping stone to reforming themselves in a real and healthy way.  And not too many cults will do that.  I met ex-RCs who felt that the 'right' thing to do after leaving is say nothing bad about the RCs.  It's like they are still playing by the RC rules long after they have left.  Of course the RCs like this kind of person because they don't rock the boat for current members.  To hell with that I reckon.  Make the RCs take responsibility for their actions.

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Reply to : Calamity JaneI don't believe this to be true. I think that people can be more damaged than they are willing to admit. Just because they're not running around crying about it doesn't mean it doesn't bother them. Sometimes I think that it's just plain denial and I worry for them if/when the time comes when the full realisation of what they were involved with finally hits home.I agree 100%. I know lots of ex-RCs who never confront it. Some leave church completely and others are happy to get straight into another church. They say they have left it all behind but are quite obviously a mess. You're right Calamity, they are just refusing to deal with it. I believe one has to confront and deal with the experience to truly move on. And not just the theology but

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Reply to : avenger dude

Very good post. I think it was thoughtful and your comments are very valid.  I am sure that there are many people who have (and still do) a RC experience of some sort and fall into the category of 'tourist' as you put it.  I don't know that many of us don't understand or grasp that, rather that we ourselves didin't fit that description upon leaving or being booted out.

for many, there was a point in time when they 'switched', submitted, clicked, agreed, surrendered... got involved... just like they encourage us borderliners to do at young peoples (because if you are attached socially or even matrimonialy, you are dependent and no longer a witness to- or aware of- or concerned with the dirty business).

is there not a time where you 'just come along to check it out'? are there not heaps of people who are there mainly for the social aspect or to meet people of the opposite sex or just to be with people who have 'good, clean fun'?

Again, I agree 100%.  I know when I first joined I knew nothing about the 'putting out' and 'shunning' practices.  I don't recall when I found out about them, but it certainly wasn't in the first few months.  And even when I was told, I recall it was glossed over and said in passing.  I also remember when I was in the Canberra RCI (now RF) being told that I shouldn't visit other churches when I suggested I go and visit my school friend's Penet church (non-RCI of course).  One high profile youngies leader told me that it was unwise to visit other churches, yada yada yada.  No threat was made of course as I was still a newbie.  I remember thinking, "Whatever.  I'll go if I want to.  I never went but only out of inertia.  Three years later, I simply knew it wasn't allowed and felt like I was being REALLY NAUGHTY when I visited a CRC church (the RCs came out the CRC) with some ex-RCI people while I was still in the RCI and doubting their exclusivity doctrine.  But I can also recall being coached on giving our testimony at youngies not to give away too many negative aspects of the church to new people.

So yeah, almost all people get sucked in gradually.  No one would join if they knew what it was gonna be like for them 5 years down the track.  but again, that's how cults operate.  They lead you in one step at a time.  It's like the frog in the kettle.  You wake up one day and realise that you are saying, doing and believing things contrary to what you would have accepted earlier.  And you wonder, 'how did I get here?'  No one just joins a cult persay...they are gradually drawn in to the cult.

there is a possiblity that these people who have left and couldn't really care less about the church are just avoiding confronting the issue, but why WOULD they? they have their life, a good job, a partner in the world (who is a good person - what? a good person NOT in the revival churches! not possible!)... and this type of thing happens all the time everywhere.

Hey, anythings's possible.  But I doubt very much that there are too many people who have been there over a certain period of time (don't ask me to give a figure) who don't feel something upon leaving or getting kicked out.  And I guess it all depends (as you said) on how much of themselves and what they value that they've invested in the group.  And how much the group has invested into them.  You would have to have a VERY strong sense of self and your identity to leave all those friends and not feel anything when they drop you like a hot potato.  And no one copes very well with rejection, so those who get kicked out fare even worse I reckon.

people are suckered into buying things... yes, it gets a bit close to the nerve when it is morality you are dealing with... but what's new? the ones who want to take action (us) are just the next lot of people now with a mission. more consumer watchdogs. if we make it our goal in life... our goal has still been created by these churches. our life is still revolving around these churches! it's funny isn't it? inside or outside of it... do we really have a life?

Mega valid comments to be sure.  A few people have asked me how much of my own identity is wrapped up in being an anti-RC guy?  I mean, come on, I have been out for coming up on 20 years.  But for what it's worth, I support this ex-member online community more out of the fact that if it had existed when I left then I would have had an easier time back then.  I want to offer some assistance to those who leave...even now.  In spite of what some think, I wouldn't care if the groups dissapeared tomorrow.  I have a HUGE life outside of this stuff.  I run a business, live overseas, have a family and have very little to do with religion in 'the real world'.

what i'm saying is so what about the corruption... who are we? the police? what did we expect from church and were we expection perfection from the human leaders? it could just be another excuse to bag them and find fault. i know that certainly exists... but is this the best we can do? there's hardly any substantial dirt on them anyway.

Again, many of us have been tangibly damaged by them and so want to sound the alarm for others and help those who leave shattered by the experience.  It;s not about closing the RCs down...at least not for me.  I for one would defend their right to exist and believe whatever they want to.  Freedom of religion is one thing that I think every society should advocate.  But at the same time, they fucked a lot of people over and so need to be held accountable and people shuld be made aware of the cost of joining the RCs.

if you go to church, you go there to sing happy songs, clap your hand, read the bible together, hear the gifts, have supper and fellowship, do communion, talk rubbish, wear your latest sunday clothes, watch a baptism, hear an item etc. there's so much to do and people are happy to do it... they expect that service and they get it and to them, it's worth 10% of their paycheck. great! everyone's happy... UNTIL THEY LEAVE.

And that's the clincher for most isn't it?  The leaving.  Joining is easy...leaving is a bitch.  It's a real shame that before their RC baptism, people can't be shown a video of how they will be and feel when they leave.  Baptisms would drop incredibly.  lloyd used to say 'You have nothing to lose' during his baptismal call on Sunday afternoons.  How untrue that is.  It appears many people lose a lot.

now 'we're on the outside looking in'... and maybe 'we wanna be, we wanna be, we wanna be back on the inside...'

Maybe bro...but not this little black duck. 

Thanks for your post. 

MrJ

Look I understand that there are people who don't get fully involved in it and are just tourists, however, I don't believe that they are part of the RC's anyway if that's the case.  So when they stop going - then they've only stopped going they haven't left because they were never involved the first place.

In my experience, the RC's define who you are and what you believe in.  When you leave it's not as easy as going "well that was fun! "  You actually have to deal with all the issues that brought you to where you are today.  IF you don't do it than it can actually manifest itself into other areas in your life. 

Who knows what's going on in the mind and 'soul' of your friend?  Perhaps she doesn't want to deal with it or perhaps she has nothing to deal with.  Perhaps she herself doesn't really know.   Perhaps she does.  We can only speculate.  I know myself after having left i believed that I had nothing to deal with per say but years later I came to a realisation that I in fact had been far more deeply impacted byt the experience than I had originally thought.  A lot of my 'issues' could be traced back to my RCI experience.

I don't quite understand why her comments have impacted you so.  I think your theory is valid and plausible.   As I said earlier, there is no reason to doubt that some people can escape somehow unscathed.  My experience has shown otherwise but again, that doesn't make your theory untrue.  But I will say that just because she says she is fine and has nothing to deal with does not make it true. She may (or may not) be in some kind of denial.  But again, it doesn't have to be either/or.  Some people may well escape unscathed and lucky them.  I wish that had been true for me.

I once met a girl who had been brought up in the RCI who had recently left and she totally thought she was fine.  She even refused my offer of reading material and the like completely from the standpoint of not 'getting all negative'.  She still subscribed to the RCI's expectation of leaving the church and not making waves as she did so.  She had left but was still playing by thier rules.  Hey, that's fine.  Who are we to tell her how to see or interpret it all?  But I bet her perspective changed the longer she was out of the church (Not that I know.  I never saw her again.).

I guess I am trying to say that we can never really know what's going on in the hearts of others and sometimes we don't even know our own inner workings.  We may say we're fine when we're not and we may also be psychological hypocondriacs looking for 'issues' that just aren't there.

There is some fantastic research and theories out there on conversion/devotion, group dynamics, manipulation and even the heavily contended idea of mind control and cults.  I suggest you do some reading and see if you find something of substance in all that.  I did and it helped my to frame my RC experience...mine anyway.  I say 'frame' because it gave me some reference points to measure my experience against rather than concrete answers as to how it all operated or played out in my life.  A good place to start is: http://www.csj.org/ .  And don't be afraid to track down some of the more theory based books in a uni library.

I feel that apart from having to deal with 20 years of rubbish stuffed down mt throat, the hardest thing was being shunned. It is such a hurtful experience, and of course all of your "friends" are in there. So you have to start all over again, which thankfully I am slowly doing.

FINN

For a start ,avenger, the fact that girl doesn't want to post on your site because of the Revival slamming says something to me.  It really does.  Think about it, if she is truly over it then why would it matter to her what others say about a church she used to attend?

I may be generalising and I don't care.  I cannot see how anyone who was deeply involved in the RC's can say that they are over it and that it doesn't bother them.  My sister says the same thing you know...and I can see it in her eyes all the pain she's going through - she lies through her teeth.  She's just not ready to deal with it and still allows the R's to control her life- but when she is ready then I'll be there for her.

I also know of a guy who says that it doesn't bother him too - yet he lives his whole life like a cult.  He's got like a mini cult thing happening in his life with women wanting to commit suicide over him and everything.  He's experience in the RC has manifested itself into his life.  It was frightening to stand back and watch him using the same mind control techniques as the R's.  He's one confused bloke.

I'm sorry but you can't tell me that it doesn't bother people.  How can it not?  Would you believe it if someone came up to you and said that the fact that they were abused as a child doesn't affect them anymore?  How can you believe such a thing? 

When you leave the R's you are left to question every single part of your belief system - how can someone not do this?  How can someone who has left the R's say that they are over it and that it doesn't bother them?  Are they made of stone?  Have they not had to question doctrine?  Have they not had to question all their belief systems?  Do they not grieve the 'fellowship' and lifestyle?  Do they not have to fight against the old belief that they could be going to hell because they left?  No I'm sorry...I don't believe that anyone who has been fully involved in the R's can leave and not have things they need to deal with.  Believe what you want avenger but I don't believe it to be true - they're lying to themselves.

As for helping people - I prefer to help people the way I am.  I prefer to sit and wait for them to find this site and to support them the best way I know how.  I prefer to show them that there is life after the R's and ot give them encouragement.  What else is there to do?

i find all the cult info a bit heavy. as if you have to be a little sadistic to read so much about it. well, that's my impression, which could also be laziness. but constantly reading all the details about cults and mind control will probably make someone obsessed with it, like how some of the sites dedicated to it come across.

Well, there are definitely extreme versions of the anti-cult stuff out there.  I have personally met people who scared me with their anti-cult obsessions.  Really.  So I agree with you on that one.  But don't let that turn you off.  The website I linked to above is largely by ex-cultists and psych professionals including Dr. Michael Langone, the former president of the APA (American Psychological Association).  I feel it is very balanced in its approach and doesn't ressemble the lunatic fringe you have come across. 

But hey, why even go the cult road at all?  Why not look into studies on group dynamics, persuasion and coercion, etc. that don't necessarily have an anti-cult agenda to push?  There is some wonderful stuff out there.  It might help you to gain some perspective on your upbringing and the kinds of things you face now. 

studying mind control and cults and understanding their inner-workings will give the student a lot of power, right?

There are no real 'answers' as such out there in my opinion but there is stuff to help you understand what happened and how to move past it.  Yes, you're right, it is empowering.  But go there wheh ur ready.  You don't sound to keen to get into it all so don't if you don't want to.  But at least know it's there when you do feel you want to.

i also wonder why cults are legal. and most importanly whether anyone is TAKING ANY ACTION in a more pro-active way against the organisations.

I think cults are the negative side of our societies freedom of religion laws.  The thing is, to legaislate cults would be interfering with people's right to believe and adhere to whatever they want.  So it's kind of a necessary evil.  To legislate religion would be a loss to society not a gain.  We would lose far more freedom that gain protection I think.  So I would defend the RCs right to believe what they do, but I also defend my right to say they're full of shit.  The RCs use the freedoms democracy offers but then bitch and complain when that same freedom is used to by other to diagree with them or call them to account.

doesn't anyone want to join in on the fun? is this site going to become organised? seeing it is now moderated fairly strictly and most of us are in a similar boat... do we come together and find strength in each other as a team etc.? i tried to ask people if they want to take action and this requires organisation (and trust i guess).

i don't mean to come across as terroristic, but maybe the 'helping' go a step further?

What do you have in mind?  How would you take it a step further?  I would live to see the groups get audited byt the ATO.  I reckon there would be some serious skeletons in the financial closets of Lloyd and Noel.

There is a guy in Geelong who was wanting to do some legal damage to the geelong grop for a while there.  I think he's starting to let it go and move on though.  No value judgement on that, its just what he's doing.

talking about it is cool, waiting until the next ex-victim finds the site or someone logs-in with a new name... but because it has become part of our identity and we have found a meeting place... isn't it fun to have a goal, a direction? a cause.

Sounds good.  So what do you want to do?  Start a website?  Maybe a discussion forum?  LOL!!!  Seriousy though, I am listening....let's here your ideas.  What do u want to see happen and how would u want to achieve that?

So you think talking about it and letting your anger out over it and bitching about it is a waste of time and people who do this aren't moving on??  I'm sorry avenger but you are wrong!!!

Also you don't just move on and voila all your problems are anwered.  That's not true - everything you do in your life is based on this one experience, whether it's positive or negative.  Moving on doesn't mean it's all gone.  Moving on doesn't mean your memory of the past is wiped clean.  And moving on doesn't mean that there will not be issues in the future that you will have to deal with, new issue...issues that you weren't ready to deal with or just plain didn't present themselves yet! 

I've moved on Avenger...I have come a long long way from where I was.  But if I think for a moment that that's it and there isn't anymore then I'm deluding myself - there is ALWAYS more.  I mentioned an abused child....I'm sorry but you will not find an adult who was abused as a child on this planet that are completely over it!  Show me one person and i'll gladly take back all I have said.  Because I don't know anybody!!!  Everyone I know who has had things happen in their past are still going through certain things today...there are so many things.

I know a 50 year old who still can't trust men or organisational churches. 

I know a 30 year old who is struggling with dependency issues

My 21 year old sister who is still struggling with self condemnation and who will deny that she's going through it.

I myself who have a lot of the doctrine I'm working on plus issues with my parents etc

IT IS NEVERENDING!!!  The one thing that is common in these cases is that these people are actually moving on - yes they are!  And as they move on...there is more and more that they have to deal with.  That's what happens when you move on....more things present themselves that need working on.  People aren't static.

I believe those people who claim that they are 'over it' and that they have 'moved on' are deluded and are setting themselves up for a fall - big time!!!

OH well we'll have to agree to disagree.  There are no scare tactics, I'm not being negative or positive...I'm just seeing it as it is. 

And just to prove my point a bit further ....

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in reply to calamity....i am over it....it has been 15years but i have well and truely moved on... i still believe and that has helped but i can honestly say the white trash dont affect me anymore...

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YOu claim you are over it - yet you are here and you obviously sought the cult website out for some reason....and what would that reason be?  Still have some issues you're working on do you?  And you are calling them 'white trash' which sounds quite angry and bitter - yep sounds like you're over it to me .....not!!!!!

Who says you have to be crying and throwing yourself on the ground and live a zombie like exsistance when you are still working on issue?  You can actually live a happy, normal everyday life and still have issues - amazing but true

But believe what you want to believe if it makes you feel better!

Reply to : Calamity Jane

Calamity, even though I think you have made some valid points, I have to agree with Avenger that you are making too final a conclusion.  We cannot dismiss other people's experiences just because they clash with or contradict our own.  That's what the RCs do. 

"Oh, your life changed when you asked Jesus into your heart?  What, you didn't speak in tongues?  Sorry but your experience must be rubbish as it is different from MINE and MY interpretation of Scripture." 

As you know, some people's lives change when they ask Jesus into their hearts and some people's dont.  Same goes for tongues.  Sokme change, some don't.  (I am not advocating that the change is the HS BTW.  I am still a backslider).   We cannot be so hard and fast in dismissing other people's interpretations of their own experiences just because it doesn't fit our frame of reference or explanation.

Personally I think you're interpretation is more common and more often true.  But I cannot say it is always true for every person and I think that is all Avenger is really arguing.

Well ok then but I still think people are in denial.   Believe what you want to believe but at least I'm being honest with myself.  I can easily push it all aside and say "I'm over it - look at me!!"  But then I'd be lying. I would have chosen to push it aside because the issues were too scary to deal with.  I'm not afraid to deal with them - why should I be?

A couple of you people who claim you're over it...evidence proves otherwise for me.  I know what i see.

I'll be happy to agree to disagree but don't let me see any of you show any anger at all towards the revivalists whatsoever will  you?   Because you might just prove my point LOL

Ciao!

If you are over it - why are you still so angry and calling them trash etc??

You say I still have fear...where?  How is that evident in my post?  I can see a lot of anger in your post.  Can you see fear in mind?  I really want to know.

Reply to : hiptidoda [Anonymous]

Ditto to what Calamity said.  You don't sound over it at all.  Perhaps you are over the worst of it, but you are certainly still in the angry phase.  That doesn't show a weakness on your part but the way, rather it shows you are 'normal'.

You asked if I'm 'over it' and I will honestly say...according to avenger's interpretation of 'over it' (not caring not moving on any further etc)   Then the answer is no. 

I am moving on though, I'm past the anger stage (which evidently you're not).  I'm past the fear stage (which has stopped me from dealing with the doctrine  etc in the past) and right now I'm still going through the facets of doctrine that I was brainwashed with.  So no...I'm not over it.  And I'm not afraid to admit it either.

They don't have power over me either because I conduct my life the way I see fit...if only you knew   But as for being competly over it the answer is no...and I don't think you are either....and that's ok

i have got another thought....when on there outreaches and handing out those pamplets ...what we believe etc why dont they put a section in it.....

           WHAT WILL HAPPEN TO YOU.....with testimonials ...at least you will definetely know what to expect and then there can no shock horror.... then everyone would have full knowledge... i actually think you could get the pricks under the fair trading act and you have to be honest....WOULD YOU HAVE GONE THERE HAD YOU KNOWN WHAT THE TRUE SITUATION WAS...?.......would anyone go

Oh yes please!!!  Hand out pamphlets on the guidlines and the way they'll sit there while you say Hallelujah hallelujah over and over again until it runs into each other and they can say "You speak in tongues now you are saved".  And pamphlets on how you will be kicked out if you don't abide by said guidlines then shunned.

Honesty is the best policy right?  So why not preach every aspect of the R's and not just tongues

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m3l0nc0l1c said - Funny how we all say how hurt we were by RCI when it was us who did the wrong thing in the first place.

Me - What is considered the 'wrong thing' in your eyes?  And what if you didn't do the wrong thing and you just didn't want to be controlled anymore and you saw something wrong with the doctrine they were preaching?

m3l0nc0l1c said - And come on, we all had exactly the same opinions when we were in there.

Me - actually no I didn't know what my true opinions were because I was brainwashed.  I knew there was something wrong and I needed to get out to find out what it was.

m3l0nc0l1c said - Opinions are slowly changing in RCI, my friends in RCI are free to see me.
I think you need to look at it clear headed.

me - Is that what they're telling you?  Friend, the doctrine is the same - nothing has changed!!!  Dont' let them fool you.

m3l0nc0l1c said - Sure some of the things concerning morality and their stance on it doesnt add up. But lets be serious, God doesnt want his people being immoral,

me - sure but the application and guilt that comes from the RCI's teachings is not in line with the word of God at all.

m3l0nc0l1c said - RCI is quite clear on the morals policy so If you do involve yourself in it you know what to expect.

me - oh yes I knew what to expect alright and it scared me into submission.  This is not what God stands for.

m3l0nc0l1c said - Allthough its harsh and I know there are people who have had sex outside of marrige and just keep it quiet (which i should have in hindsight), at the same time whats wrong with telling members they should behave themselves?

me - Nothing if it's accompanied with the love of God and is applied the way that God wants.  At the end of the day all God ever wants from us is our love - the rest follows through with that.

m3l0nc0l1c - I currently dont go to church at all, I didnt grow up in church and the other churches I have tried to go to seem to accept anything. There are people who dont go to church and dont believe in god who are more moral than that.

me - but God's not looking for people who can be 'good' he's looking for those who love him.  Other churches accept people for who they are and most (I say most because some don't) refrain from judgements and criticism.  Also since when is immorality worse than say...talking about someone behind their back or thinking something bad about someone....or beating their children?  The RCI acts like immorality is the WORST sin when the bible doesn't say that at all.

m3l0nc0l1c - Perhaps RCI is a bit to harsh on the outcome of an immoral action but there needs to be a standard of some sort. If christians act the same as non-christians then theres no point.

me - this standard is between yourself and God and is no business to the church as a whole.  The RCI is a cult that uses mind control to keep their members in line to what their interpretation of the bible...it is not just 'a bit harsh' at all.  They are plain wrong!!!