I gather, you the sender, don't believe in demons then?   Does this mean you also don't believe in the new testament, as there are many accounts of evil spirits being cast out of people?

There is no need to fear the devil when you know Jesus Christ.  When dealing with people in the occult and areas like freemasonry, it is good to know what you are up against before you help people.  Again I say there is NO need for anyone to fear.  Mature christians sharing their faith with all sorts of people will automatically come into contact with the occult and areas like freemasonry where self - curses are practised.   With the authourity that we have in Christ we break these curses and expel, (cast out), evil spirits, whenever we come up against them. 

In respect to reality, I don't believe you can be more real than following the new testament.   Don't forget Derek Prince teaching is for Christian's.  I would not be speaking about such things with non Christians, unless they brought it up and I felt that it was right to speak about such things to the person(s) concerned.

In respect to your point on the name of Derek Princes's ministry.   It makes complete sense to me, that, if I am searching the internet trying to find more of Derek Prince's teaching then having the web site and ministry name the same as his would make it easier to find for people.   Keeping things simple helps in getting his teaching out to people. 

Having listened to many of Derek's material, I can witness to the fact that he ALWAYS give glory to Jesus Christ and does not promote his own name, only the teaching that the Lord has given him.  

However, as I stated at the beginning of my initial posting "I have joined this forum, as I believe I have something to share that will help some of you."    I am aware that not everyone in these forums will listen to what I have to say.   It is exactly  the same way when sharing the gospel, not everyone will listen...

My question for you the sender is - Are you wanting to know the truth?  Or are you here only to say negative things against RCI, CAI?  Are you still wanting to know the Lord?

If you are the former and not the latter, it is worth corresponding with you further.   Otherwise, I think it best to agree to disagree and let other members have their say.

Nevertheless, I say Priase the Lord, for this forum, as it is a way to get the truth out there to people who need it most.

Glory be to God.  

Ian  

Reply to : ian-here-to-help

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Reply to : anon, I think you misunderstand. It is not about 'sides of the story'. It is about what the New Testament actually teaches on Salvation, alcohol, etc. Derek Prince does this magnificently.

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Oh.. yeah... very magnificent... more crap.

"Deliverence from evil spirits" - Just what we need... further steps away from reality and yet another MAN who like the sound of his own name enough to use it for his whole ministry. Thanks for your help but this is the sort of stuff that gets people too afraid to go even go and watch Harry Potter. This is the sort of stuff that fills mental homes with people too scared to turn out the lights. So Derek Prince the Magnificent scripture interpreter can't be wrong eh... he says here that unless we starve ourselves we won't get past these demons. Makes sense to me...

who are these demons that fear fasting so much? Ronald mcDonald and Colonel Sanders? KFC... the only thing missing is U (get it, lol, maybe not...)

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Mature christians sharing their faith with all sorts of people will automatically come into contact with the occult and areas like freemasonry where self - curses are practised. With the authourity that we have in Christ we break these curses and expel, (cast out), evil spirits, whenever we come up against them.This curse breaking seems to be a current trend. Your guru seems to concentrate a lot on evil spirits and angels and demons and lots of this type of stuff from obscure scriptures that he forms a definite creed of faith from.Let's talk scripture. Lets flush these demon scriptures out and see if we should be forming specific dontrines around them.to be continued...

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The fact is that demons do exist in the 21st century.... after all the Bible describes them as fallen angels.. but remember the Book of Revelation describes that only one third of the angels of Heaven that went after Lucifer... Therefore Two-thirds did not...  But returning to our 'natural' realm, God has given a remarkable gift of His Spirit  that we can use to discern with that is not tied to our mental reasonings and questionings and it is called "the discerning of Spirits"  and this gift is not enabled  by the human thinking or understanding but by the working of the Spirit of God within a Baptised in the Holy Ghost Believer..  One way to activate this unique gift is to ask God Himself the simple question  in prayer:  "Lord is this of you ??" and He will promptly show you..

But getting back to Ian's post.. Yes I agree and what you are dealing with in the case of the CAI is a religious demon..

Anon 

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Reply to : HolyandSinfulMature christians sharing their faith with all sorts of people will automatically come into contact with the occult and areas like freemasonry where self - curses are practised. With the authourity that we have in Christ we break these curses and expel, (cast out), evil spirits, whenever we come up against them.The fact is that demons do exist in the 21st century....

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That's a fact is it? (I don't think the word fact is what you think it means - another one throwing that word around to prove an argument)... the fact is I've got two feet... the fact is I love chocolate. The idea and interpretation that Satan and his evil minions are flying around and helping produce porn and violent video games in NOT a fact.

after all the Bible describes them as fallen angels..

Where does it refer to them as being fallen angels. (lets open the book shall we?) and where does it say in revelation that a third of the angels were taken from heaven. I see a verse in Revelation talking about a dragons tale and stars... which interpretation of Revelation are you looking at? The bible says the angels are without number.. what's a third of infinity? Your angel/demon theory is very convoluted when you cut and paste all your scriptures together (more on this tail and stars soon...).

One way to activate this unique gift is to ask God Himself the simple question  in prayer:  "Lord is this of you ??" and He will promptly show you..

Yep, that's a neat trick but I've seen many baptised, spiritfilled people ask god that question and come up with many different answers as you well know... When I asked, I got a different answer to yours but you will probably discern/judge me as heretical and not spirit-filled I bet.

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I gather, you the sender, don't believe in demons then?

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With all due respect, the statement "believe in" can be a little misleading..  To 'believe in' can imply to 'trust in' and no you can't put your trust in a fallen liar... So my preferential statement is 'no I don't believe in demons'  but I do acknowledge their existance... but english is so misleadng as a language and is open to much misunderstanding and confusion and hence many heated debates. So perhaps it is better stated   " I gather, you the sender, don't believe in the existance of demons then?"

ta ta

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Reply to : AnonymousReply to : HolyandSinfulMature christians sharing their faith with all sorts of people will automatically come into contact with the occult and areas like freemasonry where self - curses are practised. With the authourity that we have in Christ we break these curses and expel, (cast out), evil spirits, whenever we come up against them.The fact is that demons do exist in the 21st century....That's a fact is it? (I don't think the word fact is what you think it means - another one throwing that word around to prove an argument)... the fact is I've got two feet... the fact is I love chocolate. The idea and interpretation that Satan and his evil minions are flying around and helping produce porn and violent video games in NOT a fact.after a

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Wait until you have encountered a real supernatural demon and have a personal eye witness account of it manifesting.... then you will know what you are talking about... boy are you in for a rude wake up!!

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My question for you the sender is - 1. Are you wanting to know the truth?  2. Or are you here only to say negative things against RCI, CAI?  3. Are you still wanting to know the Lord?

4. If you are the former and not the latter, it is worth corresponding with you further.   5. Otherwise, I think it best to agree to disagree and let other members have their say.

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1. I am wanting to know the truth... aren't we all? - but I won't have it told to me... I will have it discussed, disected, covered in cheese and nibbled on slowly.

2. I am not here ONLY to say negative things against RCI, CAI... but I reserve the right to. It's fun and they deserve it.

3. I am still wanting to know 'the Lord' (not necessarily your interpretation thereof but I am willing to explore)... I've known Him for a long time already, thanks. Jesus loves me, but at the moment I just want to be friends.

4. So, I'm the latter, I suppose. Is it worth corresponding to me further? Am I worthy of your time?

5. "Agree to disagree" - always wondered about that phrase. I suppose everyone has to do that...  and of course other members can have their say... I'm sure there's room on the thread (don't think there's any Mb maximum we have to adhere to)

"And there appeared another wonder [sign; semeion, Grk.) In heaven; and behold a great red dragon...and his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth...." (Rev. 12:3-4).

We have been taught that Satan was the most powerful angel in heaven until he believed he was the greatest and persuaded one-third of all heaven to follow him in rebellion. However, as the story goes, he lost the war, and was cast down to the earth with his angels, and his name was changed from Lucifer to Satan. This all sounds exciting! Is that what the bible says? Umm...not necessarily so...

Chapter 12 of Revelation, as well the rest, was as a prophetic writing that was to take place from THAT TIME FORTH. Chapter 1:1 clearly states.: "...things which must shortly COME TO PASS, And again in Rev. 4:1 we read, "Come up hither, and I will show thee things which must be HEREAFTER."

Do you think that Rev. 12:1-2, which speaks of the woman in heaven with a crown of twelve stars, should be taken as prophetic of future events; but verses 3 and 4, refer to the past (at least 6,000 years ago), verses 5 and 6 are back to the future, verses 7 through 9 or 12 (various opinions here) as being, again, speaking of the past, and finally the rest of the chapter speaks of the future. Do you think that everything was either of the past or future and nothing pertained to the present. Talk about being inconsistent and out of context with the subject - this happens in the fairly tale justification process.

"And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth...." Since Rev. 12:4 is speaking of present and future events, and is not referring to a literal thing but a "sign" (as the Greek has it) -- then the tail of the dragon represents something that is and was present. The only stars in heaven referred to in this chapter are in the crown of the woman, so the third part of the fallen stars speak of those which were in that crown.

The "THIRD PART" has some significance also, being that all these things are "SIGNS" which point to a reality. There are THREE parts to every person: their spirit, soul, and BODY). Therefore, the ONE-THIRD of those who are cast to THE EARTH would be the ones who are drawn away by their own lusts of that lower, EARTHY realm.

There are those who play upon the temptations of others (II Tim. 3:1-6) and are referred to as the tail of the dragon in Revelation twelve, and for confirmation we can read Isa. 9:15-16: "The ancient and honourable, he is the head; and the prophet that teacheth lies, he is the tail. For the leaders of the people cause them to err; and they that are led of them are destroyed."

So the tail of the dragon drawing the stars out of heaven may not be referring to a long-lost war of the devil and his minions. But that infamous tail of the dragon may represent all those who have been, over the past 2000 years lying to the people by playing upon the temptations of the natural man. As a result, those whose dwelling place was once in a realm of the heavens are found to be groveling in the dust of the earth.

Jesus warned us not to be deceived by those going forth as Christs (anointed ones) but are in reality whores who seduce God's servants to commit fornication (not natural fornication but sometimes that too eh?). (Rev. 2:20, also Mrk. 13:22, I Jn. 2:26, II Tim. 3:13, Rom. 16:18, II Thes. 2:3). As a result of this spiritual fornication there are people who appear to be coming down with spiritual venereal diseases... ewww!

Discernment is one of the most important gifts but is the one not practiced well and because of its rarity among the stars of God, we see about one-third (figuratively) of them are being cast to the earth where there is no Christ. We shouldn't be surprised to find ourselves being swept from the heavens by the TAIL OF THE DRAGON that appears like an angel of light.

The infamous Tail of the dragon therefore is quite figuratively the RCI et al. Heck...it could even be you or me.

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Wait until you have encountered a real supernatural demon and have a personal eye witness account of it manifesting.... then you will know what you are talking about... boy are you in for a rude wake up!!

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I look forward to that rude awakening... it'll certainly answer some questions. I'm sure I'm well prepared for the event... I've never missed an episode of Buffy or Angel.

Tell us about what you saw. I'm curious... this is interesting.

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Reply to : HolyandSinful"And there appeared another wonder  In heaven; and behold a great red dragon...and his tail drew thethird part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth...."(Rev. 12:3-4).

That is very poor exegeses with a lot of text taken out of context.... never mind let me ask you a question:

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It certainly is exegeses... but that depends which interpretation of Revelation you adhere to. I ask again:Do you think that Rev. 12:1-2, which speaks of the woman in heaven with a crown of twelve stars, should be taken as prophetic of future events; but verses 3 and 4, refer to the past (at least 6,000 years ago), verses 5 and 6 are back to the future.

Is there any actual spiritual evidence or direction by Paul in the bible that states you should even be entertaining the crazy idea of the Toronto Blessing?

I'd like to see the scriptures... they are the authority.. otherwise, The TB... is just Tongues Squared - completely mental and something to steer well away from. Scriptures even say not to all speak in tongues at the same time unless someone comes among you and think you're mad! Ya think the Toronto Blessing wouldn't do that? cuckoo cuckoo

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no Word and people will blow up. 

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The truth is that when the word is left out altogether and invariably the result is a fall into superstition... People go off on a hunt for a gift, be it anything supernatural that may have the appearance of righteousness but without the word and bingo a familiar spirit takes up the cause... One time we had a youth group leader from another church visit us one day and when it came time for the usual prayer line and instead of the Holy Spirit manifesting, we had a demon instead, took three people to hold the guy down and it reminds me of the story of the seven sons of Sceva in Acts 19... So the moral of the story is that the word is absolutely indespensable and vitally essential and not to be left out under any circumstance or situation..

Schlom

Reply to : Lahad

One time we had a youth group leader from another church visit us one day and when it came time for the usual prayer line and instead of the Holy Spirit manifesting, we had a demon instead, took three people to hold the guy down and it reminds me of the story of the seven sons of Sceva

What a load of crap. What sort of fantasy world does one live in when mental disorders get confused with demonology? Voodoo superstitious garbage. Do you know what that does to people? I bet you have no idea... it's just fun to play Angels and Demons isn't it? You actually further the schizophrenia they have by confirming their fantasies. Geesh... ask a few mental health practitioners how many of their patients came from Christian backgrounds.

Ya know what?

Which would I pick if I had to choose the lesser of two evils? I would rather be part of a tongue speaking salvationist church than a church that claimed people can be possessed by evil spirits. Better the devil ya know eh? Someone on the board today even suggested that in their belief system saved people can have dormant evil spirits within them that need to be dealt with. This is all spiritual mumbo jumbo for the normal issues we all have to deal with and grow on from. We all have shit to deal with from our childhood and upbringing. That's life... don't blame the devil for your problems,  we do have our own personal demons however (so to speak). To be under the curse of the sins of the father doesn't meen generational voodoo; it simply means that we pass on crap to our children in a real and often undealt with way. We need to sort out that crud before we pass on our own parents' bad habits onto our children.

Yes, the JWs have made a demi-god of the very 'name' they use for god... many good hearted members are totally convinced of the doctrine and creed their previous generations have set into place. It all dove-tails into place and works for them.

Yes, the Revivalists have also misconstrued various scriptures and built up their own dove-tailing creed of beliefs and golden calf. Frank has weighed up his beliefs on tongues and the bible verses therein and is thus far happy with his perceptions. If he studies further perhaps he'll change his mind.. perhaps he'll continue to believe what he likes. It's up to him and it's really uncommon for people to change their view because of a few well placed adversial quotes.

Yes and your doctrines of devils and ridiculous (in my opinion) demonology theology is also a nicely built and packaged belief system that has been around ever since scientific ignorance has been with us. It is just as superstitious as Bible Numerics or British Israel, but if you're happy with them then well, I doubt anything I could say would deter you. In the middle ages they use to believe invisible leprechauns in your ears gave you headaches. Don't laugh... it's similar to what many Christians actually believe.

Yes and my beliefs are also a lot of cobblers from your point of view too. Ya know sometimes I wonder if the Emporer should be told he has no clothes on. The emporor may be perfectly happy and safe in his ignorant nakedness. If he won't listen and he continues nuding it up.... just back away perhaps and steer clear.

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Reply to : LahadOne time we had a youth group leader from another church visitus one day and when itcame time for the usual prayer line and instead of the Holy Spirit manifesting, we had a demon instead, took three people to hold the guy down and it reminds me of the story of the seven sons of ScevaWhat a load of crap. What sort of fantasy world does one live in when mental disorders get confused with demonology? Voodoo superstitious garbage. Do you know what that does to people? I bet you have no idea... it's just fun to play Angels and Demons isn't it? You actually further the schizophrenia they have by confirming their fantasies. Geesh... ask a few mental health practitioners how many of their patients came from Christian backgrounds.Ya know what?

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Well the bottom line is this Moth..... you do not have A CLUE OF WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT !!!! Your position on the subject of demonolgy is one of ignorance and uninformed  and in short you are totally out of your depth here..

lahad

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Actually FG and Lahad, can you please move this conversation elsewhere. It's quite a big topic and I can see that it will move us away from the original topic. Plus it's going to cause arguments. I'm not saying don't talk about it, just do it elsewhere - it certainly doesn't fit under the category of "uplifting".Hey Brolga, read the link you provided, that's pretty full on, how long did you go there? And are you going somewhere better now? If so, share with us about that.

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Yep, gotta agree here - I personally would rather not discuss old hairy legs and his mob on this thread.

After all It started off as an empowerment in CHRIST thread, let's get back to it!  And I actually agree with Mothman in that sometimes mentally ill people can be seen as ' demon possessed' when in fact they are quite simply unwell people.  Do we think that we are possessed when we get physically sick??  I didn't think so!  Don't get me wrong - I'm fully aware of the traps of Satan and I know he will use people and situations in any way he can (the rotter) but I also fully believe that I WILL NOT GIVE HIM POWER IN MY LIFE!!! 

I'm currently reading a book called " The Windshield is Bigger than the Rearview Mirror" by Jeff Wickwire and it is about changing your focus from past to promise.  The foreward states that "God created you with a great future planned for your life.  What you might not realise is that the enemy also has a plan for you - to steal, kill and destroy that future. One of his most effective tactics is to keep you looking backward to the past which robs you of your present happiness and future promise".  He talks about six 'chains' that Satan uses to keep people tied to the past instead of embracing the future as God intended. They are inordinate attachments, past successes, heartbreak, failure, trauma and bitterness.  John Bevere wrote of the book "an outstanding & uplifting book" . 

Let's get back to the uplifting thread that this started out as, I say!

Love to all, Sea Urchin

Sea Urchin,

I believe some and i emphasise some sicknes's are demonic, however  I concure with moth that there are people who are just unbalanced that have been accused of demonic possession.

This is an area where we will see lots of differing views, suggest you talk to someone at your church re this subject who knows about it, for ex revers this is a big one to deal with and understand, ie can spirit filled tounge talking christians have demonic activity in there life?

some will use this as an excuse to justify there own weekness's however in some cases it is demonic activity (moth is proberly laughing his head off right now)

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Well the bottom line is this Moth..... you do not have A CLUE OF WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT !!!! Your position on the subject of demonolgy is one of ignorance and uninformed  and in short you are totally out of your depth here..

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Out of my depth? I am not!

I've seen every episode of Buffy the Vampire Slayer! - All seven seasons! And all four seasons of Angel

So I'm well versed in all manner of pop-cultural demon mythology.

I believe some and i emphasise some sicknes's are demonic, however  I concure with moth that there are people who are just unbalanced that have been accused of demonic possession.

If Satan refers to the fleshy selfish part of our personality as I believe it does then yes Satan can make us sic. An unwise lifestyle causes millions of us to get sick and die. Drunkenness, unsafe sex, drug use, and use of tobacco ruins us physically and mentally. If a person over-indulges in these things and then falls sick, is it because someone put a curse on him or a spirit attacked him? No. WE are to blame for these sickness. As you said Earthy blaming the spirits would be a refusal to accept responsibility for an unwise life-style.

This is an area where we will see lots of differing views, suggest you talk to someone at your church re this subject who knows about it, for ex revers this is a big one to deal with and understand, ie can spirit filled tounge talking christians have demonic activity in there life?

Of course there are all sorts of wackjobs that have differing views on these superstitions and they vary greatly from church to church. But I agree that are wide variety of opinions might help a searcher level it all out and come to their own conclusions. I'll do my best to come from a humanist and realistic point of view. I'll check out what biases the translators have had during their hacks at the bible and I'll try not to reference Buffy the Vampire Slayer as much as I would like to.

some will use this as an excuse to justify there own weekness's however in some cases it is demonic activity (moth is proberly laughing his head off right now)

Shaking my head is what I"m doing, but that's ok, I"m used to it. My sister has been a AOG/Baptist pentecostal church goer for 25 years and has been telling me these demon stories all the time. She's an attention seeker and has a rich imagination. If one of these poor 'possessed' people were to hover above the ground then I'd be a little more open to the idea.

Logically: Our brain is a complex and often fragile physical organ that relies on a good balance of chemicals to keep it and us working normally... unfortunately it can be altered through repeated suggestion and chemical imbalances among other things. I've had a very close friend's head go completely mental for a few weeks until it righted itself. She had to be hospitalised during the time. There was no demon present and luckily the hosptial staff didn't hold such archaic beliefs either or we'd have had all sorts of witchdoctors dancing around her.

Theologically: The idea of a spirit entering us and taking away our god given free-will is absurd.

to moth

If one of these poor 'possessed' people were to hover above the ground then I'd be a little more open to the idea.

As the word says "  even if some saw then raised from the dead  they still would not believe"

Bet you have some beauty "conversations over the years both as a revivalist and an agnostic

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As the word says " even if some saw then raised from the deadthey still would not believe

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I'd have to see that hypothesis in action to believe people wouldn't believe, if they saw what you're saying they would see. Jesus had no problem letting Thomas poke his fingers into his gooey holes.

Anyway, I don't know about that, but I know if I saw a possessed person levitating or something supernatural then I'm pretty certain I'd stand up and pay attention. Even a 360 degree head turn would be something, but lets not mistake reality with Hollywood. Whenever someone talks about the possessed person at their church meetings they usually refer to somone yelling, screaming, swearing and being violent.... well, that pretty much describes the average pub scene. Not supernatural... not an evil entity... just Smirnoff and other spirits like that.