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But there have been times, alone with God, when He has filled me with His love - it is the most incredible experience i have ever had - more intense than anything - i never wanted it to end. 

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Have a cigarette afterwards?

Eek.. sometimes holy, sometimes sinful...

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Hi "Love"It is hard using the Law

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Yes, i am sick of the world evangelical movement where we are not to question people's beliefs - but that we should just focus on what we agree about....sure sign of the end times and the one world religion.

Way of the Master is great at using the Law as the beginning of the Gospel.  We must believe we are lost, before we look for a Savior.  We can't just tell people - you need to pray to be saved, because most people in the world think they are just doing fine, thank you.  So sad.  So much deception.  But of course, God told us this is the way it would be...as in the days of Noah, so shall it be in the end times....(Noah and his family were the only ones God saved).  But our command is still to preach the Gospel!  Lord, let us remain faithful to the end!

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Reply to : The ProphetHi "Love"It is hard using the LawYes, i am sick of the world evangelical movement where we are not to question people's beliefs - but that we should just focus on what we agree about....sure sign of the end times and the one world religion.

Actually, that sounds kinda nice to me... focusing on what we agree about. Ya know what happened to the little boy who got everything he ever wanted? He lived happily ever after (Just some random Wonka quote that came to me... When I concentrate really hard... Wonka talks to me).

we should just focus on what we agree about....sure sign of the end times

Sign of the end times? Forgetting our differences and focussing on the commanalities of mankind? God forbid! We coudn't have that... there'd be fewer wars and stuff... that just wouldn't do. It would be interesting to see the set of scriptures that say the end times will be preceded by mankind focusing on what we agree about. I'm sorry for poking my head in the christian room again, but you guys say the funniest stuff... however this particular room's topic asks to define what a christian is so it's sort of a loophole.

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Jesus - If anyone strikes you on the cheek, offer the other Also. Luke 6.29

Buddha - If anyone should give you a blow with his hand, with a stick, or with a knife, you should abandon any desires and utter no evil words. Majjhima Nikaya 21.6

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hey love. hope i didn't come across as ridiculing you, as has been suggested. i guess i do ridicule the whole world in some way or the other, but i still love it.i actually appreciate your method and its fresh floweriness. if you were going the 'kill me with kindness' route, that wouldn't work anyway, as my mum used to try that and how could i hate my mum? it's gotta be love.in fact i witness my mum mature into your style from the style of others on this board. your way is best for softening the heart. the other style, i dunno, i guess it leads to aggression.but in a way, i kinda respect that the christian massive could kinda do with a millitant wing. it wouldn't be the only contradictory behaviour and i guess every religion has one these days.actually the kkk are a christian-based para-military organisation. but i wont even go there. i probably

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hey avenger dude!

I am so glad for the interaction with you!  Thank you for all you have shared. 

I just don't understand how people can reject the WAY, the TRUTH, the LIFE.  Satan is a great deceiver and fills men's minds with grandiose thoughts of himself and rebellion against God.  But we really are nothing - just dirt that God breathed life into.  Lord, please fill the people reading this with Your Truth - convict them of any error in their lives - show them The Way!  May many turn to You!  We can't fight against God and win.  He made us.  We can choose to accept His way, or reject it.  If we accept Jesus as Savior - we are saved and get into heaven.  If we are prideful and reject it - we get what we choose - no contact with God for eternity.  How sad.  May many choose eternity with God, before it is too late. Don't fight it!  Enjoy being taken care of by the Creator of the Universe!  He owns everything and once you accept Jesus as your Savior - you become His child!  So cool!

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But we really are nothing - just dirt that God breathed life into

May many choose eternity with God, before it is too late. Don't fight it!  Enjoy being taken care of by the Creator of the Universe!  He owns everything and once you accept Jesus as your Savior - you become His child!  So cool!

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You keep saying that we are all nothing but dirt. You seem to really have it in for the human race. God considers us so much more that that... our bodies came from dust and to dust they will return. Look past the flesh and see the heart eh?

Many people on this board accepted Jesus as their saviour and are therefore 'saved'. Some during their walk have chosen not to congregate with various clumps of humans in their Sunday morning meeting places.

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Reply to : Love [Anonymous]But we really are nothing - just dirt that God breathed life intoMay many choose eternity with God, before it is too late. Don't fight it! Enjoy being taken care of by the Creator of the Universe! He owns everything and once you accept Jesus as your Savior - you become His child! So cool!You keep saying that we are all nothing but dirt. You seem to really have it in for the human race. God considers us so much more that that... our bodies came from dust and to dust they will return. Look past the flesh and see the heart eh?Many people on this board accepted Jesus as their saviour andare therefore 'saved'. Someduring their walk have chosen not to

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Hi H&S!

I say that because of the people who claim to know better than God, to question Him, to think they have a better way.  God tells Job - where were you when I created the heavens and the earth?  The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom - so those who do not fear God really have no wisdom at all.

God elevates the humble and cuts down the proud.

When we are compared to God - we are nothing.  He made us.  He gives us every breath, every heartbeat.  He is in control.  He makes the rules.

Those who say it's not fair - that's like saying "Gravity is not fair.  I want to fly like the birds.  I don't want to be tied down to gravity." If they jump off a skyscraper - they will die because of the force of gravity.  They can't change it. 

That is exactly the same as those who say "Hell isn't fair.  I don't want to be forced to make a decision.  I want to do what i want to do.  I don't want to be tied down to God's rules."  When you jump off the edge of this life into the next - the force of God's law of Salvation will determine where you spend eternity.  It is a law that can not change.  You either accept it or reject it.    The one who rejects gravity and tries to live life his way (flying) dies.  The one who rejects Jesus as Lord and Savior (God's only way of salvation) dies eternally apart from God.

Realizing we were originally made from dirt keeps us humble, realizing we are nothing without God.  You can accept or reject it. 

Lord, may You soften H&S's heart to stop fighting You, and to let You love him.  Let him know You and Your love.  Let Him reach out to You and accept You!   In Jesus' name.  Amen.

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That is exactly the same as those who say "Hell isn't fair. 

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Well... hell ISN'T fair... that's the thing! (if you believe it to be a place of eternal torture)... Even in our flawed justice system there are levels of punishment to fit the crime and an attempt is made for those convicted to learn from their mistakes. And our souls weren't made from dust, our souls and heart weren't made from dust (and I'm not talking about the organ that pumps blood throughout the body).

How Christians Can Become Atheists by Charles Slagle. Traditional and fundamentalist teachings about hell lead to misery, despair, hatred of God, loss of faith, and finally atheism.

Some common teachings about God:

1. God helps only those who help themselves. That is, Infinite Holy Love helps only those who make sufficiently good, wise, and timely "choices" before He is forced to abandon them to pain and evil "forever and ever."
2. God is Holy Unfailing Love Personified, but He has also planned in advance to abandon most (or many billions) of His human offspring to fiery agony "forever and ever."
3. God expects you to love your enemies and your neighbors as you love yourself---at least for now---until the time comes for the saints to judge the world. Meanwhile, Unfailing Holy Love has already reserved the right for Himself to abandon to "hell forever" multiplied millions of his own little neighbors who are daily dying and departing this veil of tears. A veil of tears into which they never "chose" to be born...
4. God is Holy Love and loves the "world". However, He has already planned in advance to consign to endless fiery torture those whom he has chosen not to save, for He intends to save only the elect.

These teachings entering into your sub-conscious mind can meditate on "everlasting rage, despair and vindictiveness" for years. And thus you'll gradually turn into a smiling, double-talking, double-minded, Bible toting, Scripture quoting, religious robot. That robot may last for decades before it either suddenly "explodes" into atheism, or "implodes" into religious insanity.

And I'm not fighting God either. I remember fighting God many times during my 33 years of churchgoing, but not now... so yeah, your prayer is answered. So cool!

Good read here too! - Hell, Satan's biggest lie

Reply to : atsea [Anonymous]

Hi atsea. I don't think I've seen you on the board before? What's your history with the Revivals? What does atsea mean? are you a sailor?

I get the " He keeps the universe in motion, orchestrating so many wonderful things for us daily - sunrises and sunsets, beautiful oceans and beaches to enjoy, lakes and streams, animals to enjoy as pets, flowers, trees, children to love and be loved - wonderful variety of delicious food to eat - eyes to see everything, ears to hear - beautiful music - arms to hug - hearts to love.....so much more....thank You Lord!" from Love. I feel that way about God, and always have.

Yep, although I sympathise with agnostics and atheists and others with their evolutionary theories, I for one do believe that all the matter in the universe(s?) spiralling out into the infinite void was set into motion, from nothing, billions of years ago by an intelligent force that has recently been personalised as one or three (but who's counting?) gods. Many things were created that are breathtakingly beautiful... some of which are enhanced even more with plastic surgery LOL, other things are downright ugly and ridiculously evil, ie. toads, stonefish and Darly Sommers.

But I don't get the fiery furnace in agony for ever thing, H&S. And the fact we get natural desires and human emotions attached to our bodies, and have to spend the time ignoring them or we get tortured for eternity? Love me then I'll love you, and you gt the good stuff. Don't love me and I'll make you sorry?

Scriptually, the bible says he rains crap and gold on the 'just and the unjust' so if you do love him, or don't love him, or don't really care... you don't really get any special treatment. Didn't he say he was no respecter of persons? I've got a mate who was (and still is) a devoted christian who travels to remote areas diligently spreading his gospel, who came back from a mission trip and had a car accident and watched his wife and two children burn in front of him... honestly... that would suck beyond anything I can comprehend. Such, unfortunalely, is life on this random bloody planet.

Some of those links in my previous post have some very interesting takes on scripture which suggest that the fire and hell is not what the mainstream christian delights in thinking. There are many contradictions in the bible and the leather clad sheets of papyrus we pour over is not without it's share of imperfections (we can start up another thread if anyone wants to discuss those). However, I do think the 66 books have a core of inspiration and stands alone as a quality piece of ancient literature. I've recently been reading about the wisdom that is also mentioned in other religious texts... there's some nice stuff and good life advice, but we need to use our own god given common sense to discard the crappy ideas that we're so quick to lock in.

Is it some cosmic game made up by God to see who would be stupid enough to fool for it? Trouble is we are'nt going to know till we die, maybe. I'd rather be on the safe side and do the accepting Jesus etc, but would that be acceptable to him if i"m only doing it to escape eternal torture.

If the Jesus and co. god is so insecure about hs relationship with us that he would shoot us down for 1. breaking up with him because we don't want to huddle together on Sunday mornings, or 2. not getting to know him properly; then he is the sort of partner who shouldn't be running a universe. Damned if we do, damned if we don't with that sort of an unreasonable entity. I believe that something went down 2000 years ago and that it was done to do away with the laws that we couldn't deal with, and that it was done for ALL! Whatever it was, it was a good thing for us. The writers and interpreters of the bible since then have had their own agendas and, as is the case throughout human history, desire to hold control over others. The whole "we're saved and you're not" mentality that breeds arrogance and pride is not from the god I believe in.

No one's come back and told as what it's like after death... maybe Jesus, but he didn't really give much away about it did he? It always makes me chuckle when people think of the afterlife as it's alluded to in Revelations (an extremely symbolic book), as if there's streets of gold - like such a mineral would be so special to spiritual bodies that still need legs to walk down them in order to get to the mansions that have rooms and ensuites.... lol...

Look after yourselves... and each other.

Define 'chistian', am I one or not? C'mon let's grow up and lose the labels eh? At least I will...

Reply to : All

I am proud to be called a Christian!  A follower of Christ.  There is nothing, nothing in this world that is more important than my relationship with Christ!

Salvation is not being in church, doing this, or doing that.  Salvation is a relationship with the God who created and runs the universe!  How awesome is that!   The God who alone gives peace.  Since i  have become a Christian, i have PEACE, PEACE, glorious PEACE!  And as i have shared before, LOVE!  and JOY!  Aren't those some reasons to reach out to God?  It is a great idea to reach out to God to escape hell.  Hell is real.  There are testimonies of people who have said they were heading there - it was horrible - they saw the faces of the people in torment - and they were all saying - don't come here - just as in the Bible the rich man (from the history of Lazarus) wants to save his relatives from heading to the same place that he went (torment). 

We get what we choose.  Rejection of God in this world results in no relationship with God in the next.  It is your choice.  God is not sending you anywhere.  EVERYONE in the world has the same choice.  Reach out to God - or not.  Reaching out to God results in spending eternity with Him.  God has given us free choice (otherwise we would be robots and incapable of love).  He is totally fair.  For those who reject Him and want nothing to do with Him, who reject all the evidence for Him - He lets them have their way - without Him for eternity.  God is love - so without God there will be no love.  God is peace - so without God there will be no peace. 

Your arguments about saying it is not fair, are like women saying "It's no fair we were born women."  Or Africans saying "It's no fair we were born African".  It is just how it is.  We have to accept how we were born.  We were all born SINNERS.  That is just the way it is.  God can not be in the presence of sin.  But God is loving, so He made ONE way for us to be free of the sin, to be rescued from our sinful future.  God's rules (that we can't change) say "The soul that sins must die". 

Jesus did not sin.  Because He is God (eternal) His perfect life and sacrificial death were able to pay the penalty we all deserve.  But, just as any gift - you can accept it or reject it.  Say, someone you don't like wants to give you a gift - you can throw it back in their face - reject it.  If you reject it, you don't receive it.  EVERYONE has a choice to accept or reject Jesus' death for them.  When you say Jesus' death is not the way, or it's not fair....you are rejecting God's gift.  You will not receive it when you stand before Him.  You can make up all kinds of excuses, but when you stand before God after your death, the only thing that will matter is if you accepted that Jesus died in your place, for you.  Lord, please, may hearts be broken, may hearts reach out to You and accept Your gift of Your Son, dying in our place.  Thank You Jesus!

Jesus died for EVERYONE, but only those who receive His gift, thanking Him, trusting Him for their salvation are saved.  Salvation is a relationship with Jesus.  When you really trust Him, He comes to live inside you through His Holy Spirit.  He changes you!  It is so incredible.  Lord, may many be changed today. 

To make our lives better, we can't change ourselves.  RELIGION is always man reaching up to God - trying to save themselves.  We can't.

Christianity is God reaching down to us, God saving us.  We must make a choice.  Accept His wonderful salvation or reject it.  We can not be neutral.  Neutral is rejection of His gift.  We have to accept it to receive it.  Lord, may many accept Your wonderful gift, even now.  Talk to God.  Tell Him you know you can't get to heaven on your own.  Tell Him you're sorry for the bad things you have done.  Tell Him thank you for sending Jesus to die for your sins.  Tell Him you accept His gift of salvation!  Tell Him you want Jesus to be your Lord and Savior!  Praise the Lord!  If you really meant it from your heart you have ETERNAL life.  You are saved FOREVER.  You can never lose TRUE salvation!   May many be saved Lord!

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It is a great idea to reach out to God to escape hell. Hell is real. There are testimonies of people who have said they were heading there - it was horrible - they saw the faces of the people in torment - and they were all saying - don't come here - just as in the Bible the rich man (from the history of Lazarus) wants to save his relatives from heading to the same place that he went (torment).

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If you believe that then you are truly off with the fairies, in my opinion, and way past reasoning with.You're certainly ignoring anything that doesn't filter through your glazed over glasses. You're getting repetitive and overly preachy also. We'ver read your salvation edict before and if we want to read it again we will go back to one of your posts - "even now... so cool". Maybe you can go to a forum somewhere else where there is a demand for your's and Prophet's 'Turn or Burn' sermons. All on this forum have heard it before, and heard it from hardcore cult leaders too... been there done that. "even now"

If you feel I'm mocking you, then count it as joy when in persecution, for great is your reward in heaven while the ignorant and others writhe in eternal torment in the room beneath you. Just keep the noise down up there hey while dancing on the golden streets, it only adds to the torment when they hear you laughing and jeering... "even now"

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btw, your paragraphing style is reminicent of the prophet's. any relation?

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i was so going to say that , there are a lot of posts with weird commas and similar paragraphs , is it an epidemic ?,   ,

but the, apostropheees seemd so much better than usual , so i didn,t accuse this time

i don,t even know how to start a new line without a space automatically popping           

Thanks avenger for softening my moody posts... sorry love , I"m not a tame lion ,     .

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This is the Christian room.For believers of the faith not unbelievers

Yep but the particular topic in this room is "Define Christian.   what do you think a christian is, just so i know whether i am one or not...? so if you don't want anyone replying to it who is actually UNSURE of their lable, then start up a new thread called "prayers and preaching" or "What's your favourite fruit of the spirit" or "This is my special gift, what's yours"... or "how to talk condescendingly to non-christians". Start up a new thread where we are not discussing what qualifies as a christian and those of us who object will leave you well alone.

Those that object maybe should not frequent this room.

Yep fair enough.. start up another thread and the chattier ones like myself will infrequent those ones,

 
I notice that there are only three or four main posters here and that they seem to want control this web site and if you dont agree with them they tell you to stop posting mmmmmmmmmmm

Control freaks.... residual habits. If you can't join 'em, beat 'em, I always say hahahaha. As I said and have suggested, if it gets too hot in the kitchen get out. This thread is titled what it is and that's what we started discussing. I truly suggest that you stop posting under it and if the participants upset you. Again, we're defining what is a christian in THIS thread (it's continously going way off topic but nevertheless, it is the topic. "Am I a christian..?"and I'd like to add that there are many shades of it.

Hi Love; maybe they mistake "being off with the fairies" for being in the Spirit world.They do not see the things of the Spirit at all, willfully blind. Making God in your own image or reaching up to God to bring Him down is I believe Idolitary, gets most people. keep on keeping on

You think you know some of us so well but only get this persona. It's unfair of you to makes such judgements about how strangers believe in spiritual things. I spent most of the last 3 years very deeply in a Baptist church that was very off with the fairies, but for a lot of the time I thought I was very in tune. Just because I've explored and interpreted the scriptures on hell to be misaligned with your view of it and consider them to be analogous of spiritual things doesn't make me an idolitorer. I think it makes me the opposite. Feel free to discuss or... again start up a thread that is for the "soundly saved, eternal hell fire believing, salvation by grace Christians".

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yeah, i know. the whole hellfire and brimstone is a bit annoying and i guess i realise it was needed at some stage to motivate people.

it's was such a relief to not have to worry about hell and all the other 'necessities' enforced at the revival centres.

it was almost hard work being a christian, worrying about doing th wrong thing, and new rules were popping up everywhere. there was so much to be aware of.

the bible is full of thousands of statutes etc. and jesus came along and said to just love one another and god.

the revivalists made people feel safer and like they were doing the right thing by being more strict. this was intentional and admitted to me by a house leader named alan grae, using an anology with sheep and 'the higher the fence'.

it is great to feel free to look at things from a different perspective, and it made me feel free to even not feel the need to depend on scriptures. maybe it would be beneficial in some way at some time, but i get the general jist. i used to enjoy discussing it, but felt that it was no longer necessary in my life.

i will always have that initial framework of the bible as a subconscious guidance system, or just for something to compare other systems to.

good to hear you enjoy your church and that its good for the kids. i always wonder if i would feel better at a church for the kids sake, if and when i have them.

until then, i will continue to encourage people to look at things differently. i bit the bait... the terms and explanations i use here are the types of things that i needed to hear in my life. we can always blame the devil and the deciever and say that its harder to stick to the straight and narrow etc. but as i said, when i heard of alternative explanations, my body and mind just absorbed them. it was a relief to be a different sort of christian. that is a person who listens to what christ has to say. i can now even live with the 'fact' that jesus didn't even need to have existed. he didn't need to have been the son of god or born of a virgin. like the 'hellfire', the 'magic' played a part in gaining people's attention and belief. they both also compensated for a lack of science/understanding and information.

what would jesus do now? make sure there was no fear generated in relation to religion. the next generation of 'good news'.

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The Christian Room... Define Christian. what do you think a christian is, just so i know whether i am one or not...?

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well, looks like this thread is over for now.

it appears that no matter how much i try to deny or attack christianity, my deeply ingrained jesus complex shines through.

i've been reading a marxist essay by althusser entitled 'ideology and the ideological state apparatus', and it kinda of sums up some of my sentiments in a few words;

basically that the church is an ideological state apparatus.

it is no reason to offend or accuse 'good christians' (who usually acknowledge that the church is obviously going to be imperfect, being run by people).

i am sorry for these people who get dragged into or caught up in the psychological warfare of church politics, but it is one of the dangers of being involved in a site like this.

also, some people, who see the history of church politics and 'the conspiracy' behind it as huge injustice (some people see it a "Beautiful Lie") can react with too much emotion, especially if the replies are seriously contaminated by what 'we' are fighting against. but it is not the fault of the messenger, in a way.

when i say some things that are radical and provocative, sometime i want to learn from the reaction too. in a way i wound't mind someone telling me i'm wrong if they can explain that they know where i'm coming from and have an appropriate alternative suggestion.

i also would like to say thanks for putting up with the egotistical nature of my posts - always in the context of me and my expreriences, but i think this is ok, especially if we are aware of it ourselves (uncomfortably). i hope it makes my posts more 'genuine' than blatant 'trollism'.

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well, looks like this thread is over for now.it appears that no matter how much i try to deny or attack christianity, my deeply ingrained jesus complex shines through.i've been reading a marxist essay by althusser entitled 'ideology and the ideological state apparatus', and it kinda of sums up some of my sentiments in a few words;basically that the church is an ideological state apparatus.it is no reason to offend or accuse 'good christians' (who usually acknowledge that the church is obviously going to be imperfect, being run by people).i am sorry for these people who get dragged into or caught up in the psychological warfare of church politics, but it is one of the dangers of being involved in a site like this.also, some people, who seethe history of church politics and 'the conspiracy'behind it as h

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Yeah, I think Prophet and Love left the debate a long time ago.

Not that it was a debate... most of the 'discussions' on this site are by people who have already made up their minds way before they start debating. Maybe something rubs off on each other. Hopefully, we at least become more tolerant when we look at the beliefs of others. The point of discussing things here is mostly to promote your belief and kick as much dirt into each others' eyes as possible (well, so it seems sometimes.. or is that just me?).

I'd have to admit I have a grudge against tongues-necessity preachers because they exclude so many integrous people trom their version of who will be accepted into heaven. L&P (love and prophet) didn't preach that stuff and have moved away from that belief and for that I tip my hat and give 'em credit. Still, their criteria for who deserves a 'christian' title is still rigid. They are still exclusive and hold to the fact that babies are sinful and should grow up knowing they are sinful so that when they understand how sinful they are they can finally repent of it. There's a deformed logic there that just doesn't gel.

But that's all been said.

I love the stuff Flax wrote a few posts ago.