Ian's first post:
Righto my 'nameless-and-faceless' collective of friends, it's time for my first 'serious' post in this new format.

The RF completely eschews the consumption of alcoholic beverages in any form, but further, actively disciplines those members who choose to partake of the same (but in moderation, one would hope).

Now I offer to you that Scripture doesn't command abstinence as a necessary corollary to godliness at all. Further, that your fellowship's enforced 'teetotalism' is the result of naively furthering certain cultural baggage that was carried over from the puritanical 'wowserism' of the early Pentecostal movement.

So on what (biblical/theological) grounds does the RF prescribe enforced abstinence from alcoholic beverages to all within your fellowship? Is this a teaching from Scripture that was promoted from the earliest of times, or is it a very recent novelty that owes more to post Victorian-era 'wowserism' than to apostolic command?

I await your reasoned (and collective) reply ;o) Blessings, Ian

Revival Reply: Thankyou for you question.

First a disclaimer: Parts of the following response may not necessarily be endorsed, nor agreed upon by "The Revival Fellowship". It is a conglomeration of responses made by active members of the Revival Fellowship. Their intention is to respond truthfully, but the opinions contained therein may differ from any official opinion of "The Revival Fellowship" (if such an opinion does in fact exist).

For those readers who are less scholarly than Ian, here are some definitions of words used in his enquiry:

teetoalism - the principle or practice of total abstinence from intoxicating drink.
puritanical - very strict in moral or religious matters, often excessively so; rigidly austere.
wowserism - (Aus. slang) an excessively puritanical person.

Alcohol - the Bible and the Revival Fellowship
By Pastor Chris Jose, Melbourne Revival Fellowship, May 2005

Could you go over the Scriptures about not drinking alcohol?

Ephesians 5:14-20
14 Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.
15 See then that ye walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise,
16 Redeeming the time, because the days are evil.
17 Wherefore be ye not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord is.
18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;
19 Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;
20 Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ;

. Note that this instruction is given in the context of a direction to leave aside various evil practices that are a part of the world (see Eph 5:1-16).
- the chapter starts with a direction to be followers of God (v.1)
- having at one time been in darkness we are now the children of light (v.8)
- we are not to have fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness (v.11)
- there is within wine, excess

Drunkeness is a work of the flesh (Galations 5:21) - alcohol is the source.
"Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these...drunkenness..."
It is in this context that we should understand the direction not to drink alcohol.

. People debate as to whether the Bible absolutely prohibits the drinking of alcohol. But there can be absolutely no doubt that the Bible strongly identifies the evils of alcohol.

To Aaron and the priests - an absolute prohibition:
Lev 10:8-10 8And the LORD spake unto Aaron, saying, 9Do not drink wine nor strong drink, thou, nor thy sons with thee, when ye go into the tabernacle of the congregation, lest ye die: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations: 10And that ye may put difference between holy and unholy, and between unclean and clean

Isaiah 28: 7But they also have erred through wine, and through strong drink are out of the way; the priest and the prophet have erred through strong drink, they are swallowed up of wine, they are out of the way through strong drink; they err in vision, they stumble in judgment. 8For all tables are full of vomit and filthiness, so that there is no place clean.

To kings - an absolute prohibition:
Proverbs 31 4It is not for kings, O Lemuel, it is not for kings to drink wine; nor for princes strong drink: 5Lest they drink, and forget the law, and pervert the judgment of any of the afflicted. 6Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts.
We are made kings and priests unto God - Revelation 1:5-6.

The evils of alcoholic drink identified:
Proverbs 20:1 "Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise."
Proverbs 23 29Who hath woe? who hath sorrow? who hath contentions? who hath babbling? who hath wounds without cause? who hath redness of eyes? 30 They that tarry long at the wine; they that go to seek mixed wine. 31Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright. 32At the last it biteth like a serpent, and stingeth like an adder. 33Thine eyes shall behold strange women, and thine heart shall utter perverse things. 34Yea, thou shalt be as he that lieth down in the midst of the sea, or as he that lieth upon the top of a mast. 35They have stricken me, shalt thou say, and I was not sick; they have beaten me, and I felt it not: when shall I awake? I will seek it yet again.

Jesus' clear warning:
Luke 21 (AMP) 34But take heed to yourselves and be on your guard, lest your hearts be overburdened and depressed (weighed down) with the giddiness and headache and nausea of self-indulgence, drunkenness, and worldly worries and cares pertaining to [the business of] this life, and [lest] that day come upon you suddenly like a trap or a noose;

A way of the past:
1 Pet 4:3-5 3For the time past of our life may suffice us to have wrought the will of the Gentiles, when we walked in lasciviousness, lusts, excess of wine, revellings, banquetings, and abominable idolatries: 4Wherein they think it strange that ye run not with them to the same excess of riot, speaking evil of you: 5Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead.

The consequence of excess alcohol:
Isaiah 5: 11Woe unto them that rise up early in the morning, that they may follow strong drink; that continue until night, till wine inflame them! 12And the harp, and the viol, the tabret, and pipe, and wine, are in their feasts: but they regard not the work of the LORD, neither consider the operation of his hands. 13Therefore my people are gone into captivity, because they have no knowledge: and their honourable men are famished, and their multitude dried up with thirst.
22Woe unto them that are mighty to drink wine, and men of strength to mingle strong drink:

Qualifications for a leader in the church:
1 Tim 3:2-3 2A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; 3Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
8Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;
Titus 1:7 For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre;

Don't drink wine that may cause a brother to stumble, be offended or made weak:
Rom 14:21 It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.

Abstinence observed under the Nazarite vow:
Numbers 6 2Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When either man or woman shall separate themselves to vow a vow of a Nazarite, to separate themselves unto the LORD: 3He shall separate himself from wine and strong drink, and shall drink no vinegar of wine, or vinegar of strong drink, neither shall he drink any liquor of grapes, nor eat moist grapes, or dried.
See also Judges 13:4, 7, 14 re Samson and 1 Samuel 1:11 re Samuel and Luke 1:15 re John the Baptist

Abstinence is a sign of particular observance to God:
Deut 29 6Ye have not eaten bread, neither have ye drunk wine or strong drink: that ye might know that I am the LORD your God.
1 Samuel 1:15 And Hannah answered and said, No, my lord, I am a woman of a sorrowful spirit: I have drunk neither wine nor strong drink, but have poured out my soul before the LORD.

Don't give alcoholic drink others:
Habakkuk 2:15 Woe unto him that giveth his neighbour drink, that puttest thy bottle to him, and makest him drunken also, that thou mayest look on their nakedness!

Alcoholic wine is a lure to the foolish and ungodly:
Micah 2(AMP) 11If a man walking in a spirit [of vanity] and in falsehood should lie and say, I will prophesy to you of wine and strong drink, O Israel, he would even be the acceptable prophet of this people!

Alcoholic wine is a tool of the blind watchman:
Isaiah 56: 10His watchmen are blind: they are all ignorant, they are all dumb dogs, they cannot bark; sleeping, lying down, loving to slumber. 11Yea, they are greedy dogs which can never have enough, and they are shepherds that cannot understand: they all look to their own way, every one for his gain, from his quarter. 12Come ye, say they, I will fetch wine, and we will fill ourselves with strong drink; and to morrow shall be as this day, and much more abundant.

Overall, therefore we are given ample guidance and instruction about something (wine and its excesses) that is inherently evil, ungodly and not 'expedient' for us. The logical conclusion to be drawn from all of that is that we ought not to partake of it, indeed that it is sinful to do so.

The case is strong, wine with its inherent excesses, is not good for us physically and spiritually. As such it should be avoided and not be part of our life.

But people strongly argue against total abstinence. They say that it is not wine that is evil but only when it is drunk in excess. So moderation is ok, they say. But that really misses the point and errs in many ways to entice us to see how far we can go. It assumes control when control is so often not possible. It assumes virtue when there is none. It seeks to blend the clear spiritual instruction (i.e. leave it alone) with the accepted social norms.

It is bad principle to try to identify how much of a bad thing is ok in order to try and be more accommodating to social customs. We should not dabble with evil, the social custom should give way to the Bible instruction.

It is not God's purpose to give us such clear instructions to stay away from alcoholic drinks so that we might then test to see how much of it we might indulge in. This is a classic trick employed by Satan and his world - have a look at the temptation in the Garden 'Ye shall not surely die', Genesis 3:4. Eve saw the natural appeal in something she characterised as 'good', 'pleasant' and 'to be desired'. This appeal to what we as natural beings see as the pleasurable consequences of taking a bite (or taking a drink) is what the call for having a little bit of an evil thing is all about.
It is just wrong to suggest that a little bit of a bad thing is ok. It is not.

There is but one example in the scripture where some virtue is identified for wine where Paul instructs Timothy to do something about his sickness that would appear to have been connected with bad water. He says in 1 Timothy 5:23 that Timothy should stop drinking the water and use wine so as to avoid the risk. It is possible that he is referring to new wine, i.e. unfermented grape juice. But even if he is not, this verse provides no basis to suggest that we should therefore ignore all of the other clear direction as to the evils of wine and use this as a basis to partake of social drinking (let alone drunkenness).

Finally, it is important to note that Jesus did perform the miracle of converting the water into wine at the wedding feast at Canaan (John 2:1-10). The question is, in circumstances where Jesus created wine how can it be said that we should be prohibited from drinking it? In my view the answer is quite simple.
First, it is quite possible that the wine referred to is not alcoholic (certainly not to the degree of alcoholic content that is common today). Bear in mind that the word translated wine is a generic term that can be applied to either alcoholic or non-alcoholic grape juice.
But the real issue is whether it is conceivable in light of all of the Bible teaching on this issue that Jesus was, in effect, providing the substance to allow the 'party to rage'. Is the message to be drawn from this miracle that we should ignore the evils of alcoholic wine and consider that Jesus has endorsed its 'social' use? I doubt it.
When you read this passage in John 2, it is clear that at the stage when Jesus performed his miracle the people were already ?well drunk' (see the governor's analogy in John 2:10). In circumstances where the people were drinking freely it would be astounding to suggest that Jesus would give them an alcoholic drink and thereby induce a state of drunkenness.
Thus it would be wrong to rely upon this miracle as suggesting that Jesus endorsed 'social' drinking and the potential ills that flow from that.
In our church community we say .00 alcohol. Society as whole would also be better off with such a stipulation. But society cannot handle that. The church can.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~End of Pastor Chris' Response~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Generally, the discussion amongst RF members centered around the theme:

People within the RF don't drink alcohol primarily to not offend or put a stumbling block before unbelievers or weak people within the church; and to be an example and a testimony to unbelievers.

Some key points raised are quoted below:

PHILIPPIANS 1:9-10 (AMP)
9 And this I pray: that your love may abound yet more and more and extend to its fullest development in knowledge and all keen insight [that your love may display itself in greater depth of acquaintance and more comprehensive discernment],
10 So that you may surely learn to sense what is vital, and approve and prize what is excellent and of real value [recognizing the highest and the best, and distinguishing the moral differences], and that you may be untainted and pure and unerring and blameless [so that with hearts sincere and certain and unsullied, you may approach] the day of Christ [not stumbling nor causing others to stumble].

From these two scriptures, our lives as Christian (Christ-following, Christ-like) people should be striving to be:
- untainted
- pure
- unerring
- blameless
- sincere
- certain
- unsullied
- not stumbling
- not offending
- a constant proof
- in contrast to the world
- comprehensive in discernment
- sensible
- morally different from the world
- pleasing to the Lord!

What is the difference between taking a small hit of heroin or smoking a bit of pot "in moderation", and drinking alcohol? Surely these activities do not convey an image of someone who has been transformed by the power of the Holy Spirit. We have dozens upon dozens of testimonies of people who have been healed of a desire for alcohol upon receiving the Holy Spirit, or shortly after.

It is worth noting that the Revival Fellowship would seek to assist someone who struggled with alcohol, only resorting to "discipline", in extreme and rare cases (and only in accordance with the scriptures). We aren't out to "enforce laws" - this is something the Pharisees specialised in. We are here to help people walk in the freedom of Christ.

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