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Didaktikon
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Date Posted:16/09/2008 2:17 AMCopy HTML

Well, just when one thought that life wasn't curious enough.
Rob Angus, pastor of the Albury RF, has very recently been elected a Councillor to that city It would appear that the longstanding Revivalist trait of complete separation from all "worldly" affairs no longer applies within the RF; well, at least not in Albury.

Blessings,

Ian

email: didaktikon@gmail.com
Sea Urchin Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #1
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Re:RF pastor appointed city Councillor

Date Posted:16/09/2008 6:43 AMCopy HTML

I remember a talk from Paul N at Woodcroft a couple months before I left RF.  He spoke at great length (whole of Sunday communion talk) about how 'we are not part of the community and we are to remain separate from it, it is the world and we are not of the world' etc etc.  I tuned out after about 5-10 minutes & began looking around at some of the people (oversight) that I knew extremely well, who were most definitely part of their small town communities. I remember thinking that some of these pastors are so far from reality it's ridiculous and yet here they are presuming to 'teach' us about how we should live/who we should associate with etc.

So it is with amazement that an rf pastor can now be a councillor - gosh I'd hate to be in THAT council area! Can you imagine the legalism that he'd be sure to want to introduce?  Having said that, a Christian friend of mine and member of the local (not rf) church is also a councillor who believes in bringing Christian values & morals to every situation he is involved with.

Urch

Your unfailing love, O Lord, is as vast as the heavens; your faithfulness reaches beyond the clouds. Your righteousness is like the mighty mountains, your justice like the ocean depths.
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Re:RF pastor appointed city Councillor

Date Posted:16/09/2008 4:35 PMCopy HTML

Hi Ian, Brolga and Urch, 

Yes, it just could be part of an upgrade to win new souls Brolga, and they are doing their darnedest to create a good public persona, realising that complete separation doesn't work.  

I find this quite amusing as I remember when attending  P & F  meetings and being on the school board was severely frowned upon.  They were uneasy about children attending private denominational schools and some were taken out - we being part of this.

I think there have been changes afoot in RF for quite some time, although there will never be the big announcement to that effect.  They will just subtly creep in as though it were always that way.  Stealthy ways indeed, and they have never been backward in pointing the finger at other churches slyly changing things to suit themselves.

I live close to some "well informed" RFers (we're on good terms when we meet) and very occasionally in conversation something will be said and I am not beyond asking a few questions.

It seems that the fornication rule where defaulting parties, having been put out and required to marry before re-admittance, or if they choose not to marry only one is allowed back, is now not the hard and fast rule it once was.  They can now both return in their single state.  This applies to divorced couples also, although my thoughts are, that it would probably be preferable for both to have remarried.  I'm sure it would have to be at the pastor's discretion and some cases would be discussed fully at the officers meetings - just to keep everyone informed of course.

Is RF developing an ability to evolve?

Epi


Didaktikon Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #3
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Re:RF pastor appointed city Councillor

Date Posted:16/09/2008 11:14 PMCopy HTML

Good morning, Epi.

Yes, it just could be part of an upgrade to win new souls Brolga, and they are doing their darnedest to create a good public persona, realising that complete separation doesn't work.

Personally I think the latter suggestion is far more likely to be the motivating factor than would be the former suggestion. However, I've no doubts either, that Rob would really like the Albury RF to eventually hit "double figures", and his new status might go some way to assisting with this outcome

I think there have been changes afoot in RF for quite some time, although there will never be the big announcement to that effect.  They will just subtly creep in as though it were always that way. Stealthy ways indeed, and they have never been backward in pointing the finger at other churches slyly changing things to suit themselves.

Indeed. The confessing to error and ownership of the outcomes has never been a defining characteristic of the various Revivalists groups. On those altogether rare occasions when admissions have been made, they've invariably resulted from imminent exposure from an outside source. The RCI's retraction of "Bible Numerics" in 1999 is a very good case in point. (Pastor) Geoff Beggs became aware of information that would completely scuttle the validity of this long-held-to "proof" of the divine nature of Scripture. Consequently he moved very quickly to engineer an internal PR campaign that would (1) convince other RCI pastors of the error that "BI" was, and (2) convince other RCI pastors that retaining "BI" as doctrine would cause undue harm to the reputation of the fellowship. He then drafted a letter to Simon Longfield that outlined his concerns, two versions of which existed. The public version was quite circumspect and positive, the private one slightly less so,with more of an emphasis towards gaining the "upper-hand" over the fellowship's detractors, notable among them being the relatively "new" RF smiley9

Is RF developing an ability to evolve?

I suppose we'll have to wait and see, but I'm certainly hoping so!

For those who are interested, I'm looking at the byline in yesterday's The Border Mail on page 4. The header states, "Angus promises secular approach". The entire article is rather bland, but it's probably available at the newspaper's website by now, for those who are interested.

Blessings,

Ian

email: didaktikon@gmail.com
Talmid Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #4
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Re:RF pastor appointed city Councillor

Date Posted:16/09/2008 11:21 PMCopy HTML

Hi Epi

Yes, it just could be part of an upgrade to win new souls Brolga, and they are doing their darnedest to create a good public persona, realising that complete separation doesn't work. 

If the bloody-minded social dysfunction that apparently characterises some (much?) of RF leadership does fade, it will become *very* important for believers here to highlight RF's false doctrine. It's generally easier to recognise and avoid a thug than a conman ('though RF leaders believe their teaching). It's made even more difficult in Aussie culture where it's generally unacceptable to be a thug, but it is OK or even desirable to see truth (especially spiritual - let alone Spiritual - ones) as relative.

Can believers here 'evolve'? My experience as someone with little experience of RF thuggery would say, "With God nothing is impossible", but it does require wise teachers.
The evidence for Mann-made global warming is unequivocal.
Tarquin the Magnificent Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #5
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Re:RF pastor appointed city Councillor

Date Posted:17/09/2008 12:47 AMCopy HTML

Hello all

Very good points made here I think about RF's complete inability to admit error and make apology.

As you say, they will try and change things by stealth and pretend down the line that nothing has changed. They have forced people to marry before, and now have changed this party line, they drop various key doctrines they were seemingly infallible, they have a new Coucillor, Hypnotherapists and so it goes on.

Rubbing shoulders with the world eh? The church that is never wrong!

"Not of this world" - hehehe, I dont think so. Very much of it actually.

North London, how are you?

Hope you are doing good Wendy, still think of you.
Didaktikon Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #6
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Re:RF pastor appointed city Councillor

Date Posted:17/09/2008 7:23 AMCopy HTML

Hi, Epi.

I can't see much real change until they examine the doctrine thoroughly and humbly.

I totally agree. As I've intimated in the past, one's ethics (behaviour) follows, and reflects, one's theology (doctrine). The fact of social (or ethical) dysfunction within Revivalism is directly attributable to the fact of theological (or doctrinal) dysfunction.  Now, how does one go about convincing the leaders of the respective groups that their doctrine actually needs reviewing and revising? After all, Revivalist pastors aren't particular noted for their openness to being challenged by outsiders, never mind being corrected!

Blessings,

Ian
email: didaktikon@gmail.com
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Re:RF pastor appointed city Councillor

Date Posted:20/09/2008 2:31 AMCopy HTML

 Hi  Jeremiah

Christianity and politics do not mix

I must say I absolutely disagree with you on that one, at least in the context of 'democracies'. Consider, if Christians do not bring their worldview(s) into the field, which worldviews will be left to exert their influence?  Further, I'd suggest that if *anyone* isn't prepared to be part of the political process they lose the 'right' to complain about government decisions. Scripture encourages we Christians to be 'salt and light' in this world, and I believe that includes societal governance, such as that demonstrated by Joseph, Daniel and even William Wilberforce.

The Pharisees tried that, I think. This development is very disappointing.

As I understand it, one of the key problems with the Pharisees was that their well intended 'fences' (at least sometimes) got in the way of what God intended in 'the Law and the Prophets'. Such a fence today, in my opinion, would be to say that staying away from the political process is neccessary to avoid being 'corrupted by the world'.

Cheers
The evidence for Mann-made global warming is unequivocal.
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Re:RF pastor appointed city Councillor

Date Posted:06/10/2008 3:30 AMCopy HTML

You guys are so petty no wanting to post your names

ARE YOU ASHAMED

I call you weak and scared

Jarrod
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Re:RF pastor appointed city Councillor

Date Posted:06/10/2008 5:09 AMCopy HTML

 Jarrod, anonymity or otherwise has nothing to do with the issues discussed on this forum. You have given your name, so what, it means nothing to me nor would my name mean anything to you. If you wish to discuss spiritual or theological matters then nail your colours to the mast for dissection and discussion don't turn up and name-call, thats just weak.

cheers, Tom

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