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Didaktikon
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Date Posted:13/10/2007 10:18 AMCopy HTML

All, hola. A very quick note to advise any interested parties that I'm in the process of writing a completely new essay on the book of Acts, and the way that selected passages therein are regularly misinterpreted and wrested by the Revivalist churches. This is likely to be mydefinitivework on the subject (it will be the size of a minor thesis when complete), and will provide what I believe will be a completely irrefutable dismissal of Revivalist belief on the subject of 'salvation-by-tongues-from-Acts'. The work is actually intended for scholarly publication in one of those dry, academic theological journals that we all despise(the research behind it forming part of my doctoral studies), but I will make it available in PDF for anyone who is interested. Forewarned is forearmed: although I'll be paring away a lot of the 'theologese' and technical references in the made-available-to-all-and-sundry PDF version, the essay willstillrequire a fair bit of effort to read. Why? Because itwillgo into significant detail on points of grammar and theology, given that such is necessary for tracing Luke's lines of thought. But as I said above, this essay willcategorically provethat the Revivalist groups have completely misunderstood what Luke reported, and further, that it is impossible for them to claim any sort of support for their 'tongues' doctrine from the book of Acts! I don't plan on having the first draft completed for another month or so, but if anyone wants to 'pre-book' a copy, they can send their email details to:didaktikon@gmail.comBlessings, Ian
email: didaktikon@gmail.com
worriedmum Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #1
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Re:News 'Acts' essay

Date Posted:13/10/2007 10:54 AMCopy HTML

Good idea, DId!  So you will be a doctor of theology very soon and nobody will be able to beat you in a debate because you will be so smart!

Alison McGrath will not turn to the revivalist teaching ever since he reads your essay! How about those teenagers who are deceived, and people who are not intelligent, will they read your essay? Will it help them if it is so hard to read?

If you attribute all your problems in life to God, and everything what you achieve in life to prayers, then you deprive yourself of a merit and deny yourself a chance of finding true causes of your problems and improving your present life and lives of the people around you. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Discover true Bible http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/donald_morgan/inconsistencies.html
For Zions Sake Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #2
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Re:News 'Acts' essay

Date Posted:13/10/2007 12:52 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : Didaktikon

All, hola.A very quick note to advise any interested parties that I'm in the process of writing a completely new essay on the book of Acts, and the way that selected passages therein are regularly misinterpreted and wrested by the Revivalist churches. This is likely to be mydefinitivework on the subject (it will be the size of a minor thesis when complete), and will provide what I believe will be a completely irrefutable dismissal of Revivalist belief on the subject of 'salvation-by-tongues-from-Acts'.The work is actually intended for scholarly publication in one of those dry, academic theological journals that we all despise(the research behind it forming part of my doctoral studies), but I will make it available in PDF for anyone who is interested. Forewarned is

Looking forward to it...thanks for making it available. Even if I don't understand the technical parts, I'm sure there will be enough information to clearly reveal the Revivalist's lies, errors, deception and corruption.

Blessings from Zion

For Zion's sake will I not hold my peace, and for Jerusalem's sake I will not rest.... Isa 62:1
break free Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #3
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Re:News 'Acts' essay

Date Posted:13/10/2007 4:19 PMCopy HTML

thanks Ian i would appreciate a copy

worriedmum Ian has already created the pleaseconsider web site where he talks about Acts, speaking in tounges and an number of of other topics. he also gives up a chunk of his time to be here answering questions, and despite charactor assasinations, name calling ect, he is still here.

the information is freely available, Ian cant be personaly responcible for saving every single person from revival.

he has told us that  its is a easier to undersand version if a document that makes up a part of his doctorate, it wasnt written for people who are unintellgent, personaly i plan on doing my best to work my way through it and if i have problems understanding something... well i will ask ian, personaly i think we are lucky he is taking the time to "dumb" it down for us so we get the oppertunity to read through it, because just like the rest of us he has a life outside of this forum.

Didaktikon Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #4
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Re:News 'Acts' essay

Date Posted:14/10/2007 8:13 AMCopy HTML

Reply to : worriedmum

'Mum',

Good idea, Did! So you will be a doctor of theology very soon and nobody will be able to beat you in a debate because you will be so smart!

Well, who 'beats' me in debate now?! But seriously, academic qualifications aren't as much an indication of one's intelligence, as they are one's education (the two are distinct issues), and one's persistence in working towards a definite goal. Actually, I've acknowledged here a couple of times over the years, that I don't believe myself to be any smarter than anyone else who visits this site! But now that I think about it, and having had the opportunity of reflecting on your work (for example), maybe I am just a 'teensy' bit 'brighter' than one or two, here?

Alister McGrath will not turn to the revivalist teaching ever since he reads your essay!

Ha! Alister McGrath was never likely to turn to Revivalism to begin with. After all, there's what? Three or four Revivalists in the whole of England?!

How about those teenagers who are deceived, and people who are not intelligent, will they read your essay?

They will if they email me and ask for a copy

Will it help them if it is so hard to read?

I'm not writing a pithy little short story, or otherwise 'light' bed-time reading, here. The essay is intended for people who wish to seriously, and intelligently grapple with the Revivalist position, and compare the same against the biblical material that we find in the book of Acts. I can tell you now, current Revivalists who take the time to work through the thing will be asking an awful lot of questions of their pastors! And their pastors will not be able to respond in anything approaching a satisfactory fashion Why? Well, there are several reasons. First, and most important, in order to 'close off' any possible Revivalist Scripture-wrangling 'bolt-holes', I've had to address the material both thoroughly and exhaustively. Second, there isn't a Revivalist pastor alive who is capable of refuting the conclusions that I've drawn from the grammatical, syntactical and theological material in the book of Acts. They simply lack the skills, the knowledge and the training to do so. Consequently I'm hoping that the more active among them will approach another scholar, somewhere, to provide a critique of my material. When they discover just how 'water-tight' my conclusions are, they will be forced to make choices, themselves. And third, let's face facts: there aren't that many Revivalist pastors who are known for the sharpness of their intellects Were they otherwise, then they wouldn't be Revivalist pastors!

Finally, as 'Break Free' (hi, girl!) has already mentioned, if anyone struggles making sense of a point or two, I'm only a few keystrokes away. Who knows, perhaps even your son could benefit from reading the thing

Cheerio,

Ian
email: didaktikon@gmail.com
RF_on_the_edge Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #5
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Re:News 'Acts' essay

Date Posted:14/10/2007 9:07 AMCopy HTML

Reply to : worriedmum

Alister McGrath will not turn to the revivalist teaching ever since he reads your essay! How about those teenagers who are deceived, and people who are not intelligent, will they read your essay? Will it help them if it is so hard to read?

You really don't seem to understand how the academic process imapcts on society, and how academic work finds its way into the wider community! Ian's document, will likely, especially in the medium-to-long term, have a profound impact on many honest and thoughtful but ignorant Revivalists and potential recruits. (Not to mention the far larger Oneness Pentecostal movement!) I'll be emailing for a copy.

franks ghost Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #6
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Re:News 'Acts' essay

Date Posted:14/10/2007 12:47 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : Didaktikon

Thanks for the recommendation on Gordon Fee, I'm about 30-40 pages in. So far so good.

I'm also 1/2 way though a 4 part dvd on History of the Chistian church. This morning I got  a copy of the works of Ignatius of Antioch,(which I'll have a look at in due course). I understand that much of it has been changed and was used political influence by those who would benifit from such.

Personaly I did not know that there was so much written by so many right though history that is still available to read.

The last 12 months has been a real eye opener, it's been a bit shotgun effect but as the dust settles and I start to see the Authors and imfo worth following though on I'm sure it will get clearer. 

When I get time I'll add some more to what I'm looking at and invite your comment and direction.

Thankyou.

FG.


it is the glory of God to conceal a matter but the honour of kings to search it out.
Didaktikon Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #7
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Re:News 'Acts' essay

Date Posted:14/10/2007 1:31 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : franks ghost

Hi, Frank.

Thanks for the recommendation on Gordon Fee, I'm about 30-40 pages in. So far so good.

You're welcome.

I'm also 1/2 way though a 4 part dvd on History of the Chistian church.

No doubt it being the 'History Channel' production available through Word and Koorong bookstores? Be careful with this one

This morning I got a copy of the works of Ignatius of Antioch,(which I'll have a look at in due course). I understand that much of it has been changed and was used political influence by those who would benifit from such.

If I might ask, why did you decide to start your journey into Patristics with Ignatius?

Personaly I did not know that there was so much written by so many right though history that is still available to read.

Volumes and volumes of the stuff! The more that you read of what's been available to the Christian Church from the second century onwards, the less that you'll find by way of support for your church's beliefs on salvation. In short, there isn't any historical support whatsoever for what you believe, that dates before the 1930s.

The last 12 months has been a real eye opener, it's been a bit shotgun effect but as the dust settles and I start to see the Authors and imfo worth following though on I'm sure it will get clearer.

I hope it will.

When I get time I'll add some more to what I'm looking at and invite your comment and direction.

Okay.

Thankyou.

You're welcome. But what has any of this to do with my upcoming Acts essay?

Blessings,

Ian
email: didaktikon@gmail.com
franks ghost Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #8
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Re:News 'Acts' essay

Date Posted:14/10/2007 3:43 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : Didaktikon

Thanks for the recommendation on Gordon Fee, I'm about 30-40 pages in. So far so good.

You're welcome.

I'm also 1/2 way though a 4 part dvd on History of the Chistian church.

No doubt it being the 'History Channel' production available through Word and Koorong bookstores? Be careful with this one

OK

This morning I got a copy of the works of Ignatius of Antioch,(which I'll have a look at in due course). I understand that much of it has been changed and was used political influence by those who would benifit from such.

If I might ask, why did you decide to start your journey into Patristics with Ignatius?

Well it's like this, in having read 3 of Violas works and his focus on a more linial style of leadership as aposed to the horizontol hierarchial model which has also been adopted by the reformed churches and really seems to find it's place in the modern charismatic / revival style churches. I was intersested to see how Ignatius when writing  some of his letters to the bishops of various churches, I wanted to see what was his approach and did it support what Viola had to say about the first 300 years of the New Testament church. As apposed to the likes of Bevere (who I'll add draws very heavily from the examples of the old testament, but I feel takes many liberties when he uses these to substanciate his ideas of 'covering').

That is the main reason for choosing Ignatius as an early patriac.

Personaly I did not know that there was so much written by so many right though history that is still available to read.

Volumes and volumes of the stuff! The more that you read of what's been available to the Christian Church from the second century onwards, the less that you'll find by way of support for your church's beliefs on salvation. In short, there isn't any historical support whatsoever for what you believe, that dates before the 1930s.

Does that include what was happening in Wales & Azuza Sts ?

The last 12 months has been a real eye opener, it's been a bit shotgun effect but as the dust settles and I start to see the Authors and imfo worth following though on I'm sure it will get clearer.

I hope it will.

Thats the idea!

When I get time I'll add some more to what I'm looking at and invite your comment and direction.

Okay.

Ta

Thankyou.

FG

it is the glory of God to conceal a matter but the honour of kings to search it out.
Didaktikon Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #9
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Re:News 'Acts' essay

Date Posted:15/10/2007 7:26 AMCopy HTML

Reply to : franks ghost

Frank, again.

If I might ask, why did you decide to start your journey into Patristics with Ignatius?

Well it's like this, in having read 3 of Violas works and his focus on a more linial style of leadership as aposed to the horizontol hierarchial model which has also been adopted by the reformed churches and really seems to find it's place in the modern charismatic / revival style churches. I was intersested to see how Ignatius when writing some of his letters to the bishops of various churches, I wanted to see what was his approach and did it support what Viola had to say about the first 300 years of the New Testament church. As apposed to the likes of Bevere (who I'll add draws very heavily from the examples of the old testament, but I feel takes many liberties when he uses these to substanciate his ideas of 'covering').

Sure. Then perhaps you might to 'throw-in' a little Cyprian as well, then

Volumes and volumes of the stuff! The more that you read of what's been available to the Christian Church from the second century onwards, the less that you'll find by way of support for your church's beliefs on salvation. In short, there isn't any historical support whatsoever for what you believe, that dates before the 1930s.

Does that include what was happening in Wales & Azuza Sts ?

You've misunderstood me. I was referring to the altogether modern and novel belief that, "one-must-speak-in-tongues-to-be-saved", the cornerstone doctrine of your fellowship, and which was invented in the 1930s by what was to become the UPC. Hence the reason that I prefaced my comments, above, with: "...the less that you'll find by way of support for your church's beliefs on salvation." And, of course, what your fellowship teaches about salvation certainly wasn't advanced during the revival in Wales, nor during the events at Azusa Street

The last 12 months has been a real eye opener, it's been a bit shotgun effect but as the dust settles and I start to see the Authors and imfo worth following though on I'm sure it will get clearer.

Now might I ask again, what has any of this to do with my up-and-coming essay on Acts?

Blessings,

Ian
email: didaktikon@gmail.com
franks ghost Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #10
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Re:News 'Acts' essay

Date Posted:15/10/2007 11:37 AMCopy HTML

Reply to : Didaktikon

Now might I ask again, what has any of this to do with my up-and-coming essay on Acts?

Blessings,

Not really sure I commented on your essay. I may check back. I think this part of the post started with me commenting on Fee and Viola, when I added Ignatius you asked a question of me and I tried to respond.

 

it is the glory of God to conceal a matter but the honour of kings to search it out.
Didaktikon Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #11
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Re:News 'Acts' essay

Date Posted:15/10/2007 6:58 PMCopy HTML

Reply to : franks ghost

Frankie,

This thread is about my new Acts essay (hence the title). The thread wherein we previously discussed Fee, Viola, et al, ain't this one. Hence my comment (go on, scroll up and have a looksie)

Blessings again,

Ian
email: didaktikon@gmail.com
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Re:News 'Acts' essay

Date Posted:16/10/2007 8:55 AMCopy HTML

Reply to : Didaktikon

Reply to : franks ghostFrankie,Thisthread is about mynew Acts essay(hence the title). The thread wherein we previously discussed Fee, Viola,et al, ain't this one. Hence my comment (go on, scroll up and have a looksie)Blessings again,Ian

Ok. I understand.

I'll start a thred if I need.

it is the glory of God to conceal a matter but the honour of kings to search it out.
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