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Date Posted:25/06/2009 7:03 AMCopy HTML

Having popped back into this forum after a couple of years away, I have been appalled to see what it has turned into. When first here I was able to speak with other revival centre survivors and have pretty reasonable  conversations.

Now I find it has turned into something else altogether. It is one thing to have an invited "expert" to refute the doctrine of tongues in a a bid to draw further people out of the revival mess.

It is another thing altogether to have said "expert" demean and abuse already abused people.

My time in the Revival Centre has left me with severe post traumatic stress disorder. God only know what it has left other survivors with.

I wonder if it is just always the case when you put a pack of humans together, one or two have to rise to what they believe is "the top". A position where it is okay to treat people badly because you think you have the right. A place where you thinkyou wield power, and at times you do because some others with no inner security of their own place you on a pedestal and then worship you.

Nothing gives us the right to treat other people badly. Not a degree in anything, not the fact we are holding a gun, or run a church. Why do any of us need to be abusers at all? Why would we even want to be? Haven't we been through enough already?

I thought the whole point of following Christ was to do things differently. Not need to be the best, not need to show how great we are, not need to be ego driven and glory in the worship of others. One of the reasons I no longer attend church is that I cannot find a group of humans that can rise above this tired old way of doing things.

Thank you to the people here with whom I have managed to have a reasonable conversation.

Didaktikon Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #1
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Re:ANGER AT ABUSERS

Date Posted:25/06/2009 7:16 AMCopy HTML

Galien,

Do you ever stop to consider just what an incredible hypocrite you are?! The current situation is the result of you breezing in with guns a-blazing
, shooting your mouth off without first aiming to see whether you actually had a target. And furthermore, your claim to having PTSD doesn't give you the right to act the resident "bee-yartch" (I think is the modern term) here

You're certainly one very mixed up girl, but please, get over yourself
smiley9

Ian

email: didaktikon@gmail.com
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Re:ANGER AT ABUSERS

Date Posted:25/06/2009 11:05 AMCopy HTML

If you think what I have thrown at you so far is bitchy Major, all I can say is you don't get out much. I guess the truth is when I came in here I took one look at the incredibly condescencing way you speak to people and I saw RED. In my mind you instantly became the poster boy for every arrogant pastor and house leader I ever had the misfortune to meet. I cannot possibly understand why you think it is okay to speak to people the way you do, particularly people who have already been hurt enough by men acting EXACTLY LIKE YOU. Why would you do that?

And Major, hypocrite is what one is when one continues to take communion on Sundays, then speaks to people like shit under their feet. I no longer choose to take communion.

If I shot my mouth off Ian it's because you need to be told sometimes too. You seem to think it is your job in life to point out to everyone else how bloody stupid they are. Again, why would you do that?
 
My target is not you, its what you stand for.

And if you dont want me to take on the role of the resident bitch, perhaps you might like to drop the role of the resident know all. I'm not your usual person Major. I don't need heroes and superiors who "know more" than me so I can look up to them and go "oh wow". Sadly most so called "superiors" have been substantially less intelligent than I am. And being intelligent is not such a great thing anyway. You get to see things other people don't or won't see. You find that most emporers are in fact, stark naked.

Its not just me you speak to rudely, its everyone, as though you take such delight in demeaning others to your own glory.  Perhaps you can get away with that in your career, doesn't work everywhere.
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Re:ANGER AT ABUSERS

Date Posted:25/06/2009 11:32 AMCopy HTML

Galien,

I guess the truth is when I came in here I took one look at the incredibly condescencing way you speak to people and I saw RED. In my mind you instantly became the poster boy for every arrogant pastor and house leader I ever had the misfortune to meet.

Oh, I see. This is your justification for what has been completely uncharitable and slanderous behaviour on your part? Such an admission simply must make things right then, mustn't it?

I cannot possibly understand why you think it is okay to speak to people the way you do, particularly people who have already been hurt enough by men acting EXACTLY LIKE YOU

How I speak to people? Have you stopped to consider your own approach? Unlike you I intentionally write in a "clinical", almost "sterile" fashion; I choose my words carefully, and I express myself with clarity and concision. I don't; however, make it a point to attack people personally, simply their arguments. You, however, would apparently engage in the reverse approach but scream "FOUL" at the top of your lungs the moment you believe yourself targeted. Forae such as this really are the "great levellers". They provide people with a pulpit who would otherwise never receive the opportunity. Of course, this very democratic fact also gives ample demonstration why such is normally the case. But even here arguments either stand or fall based solely on their merits. Think about this.

And Major, hypocrite is what one is when one continues to take communion on Sundays, then speaks to people like shit under their feet. I no longer choose to take communion.

Of course you don't, housewife. You're not part of the Church, so how could you (or why should you)?

If I shot my mouth off Ian it's because you need to be told sometimes too.

"If"? And you were appointed to be the "messenger"? By whom, exactly?

You seem to think it is your job in life to point out to everyone else how bloody stupid they are. Again, why would you do that?

It's my role here to point out the errors in peoples' thinking. That's why I was invited. And I do so because "stuff" eventually "sinks-in", the end result being that "longer-termers" start to reflect on matters with greater insight and clarity. You're miles from reaching that point, by the way.

My target is not you, its what you stand for.

Au contraire! You've been consistently targeting me, and then in a very personal way.

I'm not your usual person Major.

Clearly, housewife.

I don't need heroes and superiors who "know more" than me so I can look up to them and go "oh wow".

No. But you obviously need superiors who do know more than you, to point out when you're holding the wrong end of the stick (that is, if you'd stop swinging it around for a moment).

Sadly most so called "superiors" have been substantially less intelligent than I am.

Yes. I'm sure they have been. You're obviously a very intelligent person.

And being intelligent is not such a great thing anyway. You get to see things other people don't or won't see. You find that most emporers are in fact, stark naked.

No doubt. And just sometimes the emperor isn't the only person running around unclad.

Its not just me you speak to rudely, its everyone, as though you take such delight in demeaning others to your own glory.  Perhaps you can get away with that in your career, doesn't work everywhere.

You apparently know less about how things work in the military than you do about Christian theology. I wonder why it is, then, that you seem to have so many "tickets" on yourself, but refuse to allow others one or two. Perhaps it's pride?

Ian

email: didaktikon@gmail.com
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Re:ANGER AT ABUSERS

Date Posted:25/06/2009 11:58 AMCopy HTML

Housewife? I wish. 

Why do you think YOU know what errors in the thinking of others are. That would suggest that you have the "RIGHT" answers and that only YOU know what "RIGHT" thinking is. Do you have one of those fax machines with a direct line to God that the Revivals have?

YOU get to decide what the point of clarity is do you? Why is that major?
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Re:ANGER AT ABUSERS

Date Posted:25/06/2009 12:06 PMCopy HTML

If not "housewife", then what? "Gossip"?

What allows me to identify faulty thinking is considerable training in logic and debate. And as I pointed out to you in my earlier post, good and bad arguments stand or fall based on their merits. I'm quite confident that most people can recognise a sound argument from an unsound one. But those who can't? Well, they tend to go hang-out with Lukie


Ian


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Re:ANGER AT ABUSERS

Date Posted:25/06/2009 12:48 PMCopy HTML

Reply to Didaktikon (25/06/2009 01:16:03)

Galien,

Do you ever stop to consider just what an incredible hypocrite you are?! The current situation is the result of you breezing in with guns a-blazing
, shooting your mouth off without first aiming to see whether you actually had a target. And furthermore, your claim to having PTSD doesn't give you the right to act the resident "bee-yartch" (I think is the modern term) here

You're certainly one very mixed up girl, but please, get over yourself
smiley9

Ian



Hi Ian ,
I am writing because Ive been reading ure descussion with Galein and Im concerned.
now Before you go on the attack Ive known Galien personally for the majority of my life ,, Im an ex revivalist ,, And Ive suffered the pain of the so call Christian behaviour of this church so I get where shes coming from .

I understand that ure probably thinking oh here we go now they are ganging up but thats not the case .
Being Christian is about having a deep and unwavering fath in god , and leading ure life by his example, By showing unconditional,  love compassion and standing up for the rights of thoughs who may not feel they can ,, What Galien did was ask you to stop treating the people on this forum like they are stupid . I believe that Galien did what any good "christian " would do and thats tell you to show more respect for thoughs around you ,,and never know You may learn something from them ?? I know seems ludicrous someone as smart as ure self learning from another person but hey you just never know .

you asked another member of this forum not to encite Galien any further but I find it amusing that you your self couldnt help but continue to reply so I think maybe you need to take your own advice ,, and a lil of galiens advice and that is to shut up and stop being so rude ,, Unless you have something truely worth saying that we can be enlightened on ?????

You talk of christian behavior and hypocracy ,, your behaviour is not of a christian nature and incredibly hypocrytical if you lead your life according to gods law you wouldnt have been behaving like someone of ungodly background.

Now on the subject of Homosexual relationships ,, I personally dont agree with the life style but then its not my life style and Im not the one that is living with that decision so therefore
It is not my place to pass judgement thats up to god to decide ,, What I can do is show that person the same respect love n compassion I would to a straight couple.

Now My suggestion.... Get of ure Pedistool get over ure self and get a life . preferably with a lil more love compassion and more understanding of what true christian behaviour is all about

Have a great Day
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Re:ANGER AT ABUSERS

Date Posted:25/06/2009 9:22 PMCopy HTML

If not "housewife", then what? "Gossip"?

What allows me to identify faulty thinking is considerable training in logic and debate. And as I pointed out to you in my earlier post, good and bad arguments stand or fall based on their merits. I'm quite confident that most people can recognise a sound argument from an unsound one. But those who can't? Well, they tend to go hang-out with Lukie
**********************************************************************************************
Generally can't be bothered with gossip. I would rather just go straight to the horses mouth. May have some actual possibility of sorting things out then. I am a solutions based kinda gal, famous (or is that infamous) in my circle for getting people to deal with each other instead of bitching to five others about it.

Training in logic and debate? Bloody marvellous. I guess they could be considered skills for life, depends who you hang around. So this forum is a place for you to amaze us all with your debating skills? Sadly I'm not that impressed. But as I said to you in the first place, you are logic based, I am humanities based. I have not seen one iota of humility in you manner, and I don't expect to. Still infected with that revival bug. I will be praying for you major.

When at your deathbed major, do you think people will be saying "well he had such debating skills, and was able to conduct a sound argument, what great loss to us all". Or is it more likely that the heart you deigned to show selected others is what they will remember of you, that undefined sentiment you so easily dismiss?
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Re:ANGER AT ABUSERS

Date Posted:25/06/2009 11:15 PMCopy HTML

 Galien,

I write this with respect, you seem like someone whose experience with one of the revival cults/religion has affected you immeasurably.

It would seem that you might be helped by taking a step away from this forum and considering another way of venting. Your posts here seem to be getting more and more vitriolic.... in short this is not helping you. Perhaps some professional help might be a better approach.

Tommo
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Re:ANGER AT ABUSERS

Date Posted:26/06/2009 12:23 AMCopy HTML

I write this with respect, you seem like someone whose experience with one of the revival cults/religion has affected you immeasurably.

It would seem that you might be helped by taking a step away from this forum and considering another way of venting. Your posts here seem to be getting more and more vitriolic.... in short this is not helping you. Perhaps some professional help might be a better approach.
**************************************************************************************************
Well thank you Thommo for approaching me with respect, and for having the insight to see the damage done.

I have sufficient professional help thank you.

I live life on a pretty raw level, and I am inclined to forget that not everyone is used to that, or comfortable with it. My intention is not to offend, but to offer a different approach.

One thing I talked about was the lesson that Jesus taught regarding the woman caught in adultery.

The power of that stone in one's hand can be very seductive. And that is what it is about, power. The power of being right, of being comfortable in your mind that you have understood what God requires, and doing it. But if that were all it were about, would Jesus not have just let them go for it? But he didn't did he? He was trying to teach us that there are some things way more important.

For some people, their knowledge is everything. It is the thing that gives them security and the respect of others, and it gives them power. One thing I saw a lot of in revival was men gone mad on power. The power to push other people around. And that was all they had. No compassion, no empathy, no understanding of the effects of their behaviour on others, and not the slightest bit of genuine care for anyone they were the "oversight" for. Because it was all about the power, and at the time I knew something was wrong but at that time was not far enough out of it to articulate it. Even confronted with the sometimes catastrophic effects of their behaviour on others, they simply turned away. I believe it is because to be a successful revival centre yes man, you  had to turn your heart off. For some, this was not much of a chore anyway.

What I did see, rarely but definitely was the exact opposite through the power of god. A man came to our assembly, a professional who prior to that was an atheist. He would have been a very good friend for our friend the major. For a couple of years this man and I would go at the logic vs heart debate, hammer and tongs. However as that man sought God with his whole heart I saw him change. In the end there he was, this intelligent, logical holder of all the answers to the universe on his knees, sobbing, completely broken before god and man. He had allowed god in to show him who he really was, and upon gaining THAT knowledge, was then able to really begin his walk with god.

He turned into the kindest, most loving man, completely different from whom he had been previously. That just doesn't happen without the power of god. He no longer had the need for power, and was content to just let go.

I believe it is not until we meet god naked and broken, without our power, our masks, our ego, our excuses, that we can really understand who we are and who he is. We can read the bible over and over and over, study it, pull it apart, but if it does not change our heart, it is a pointless exercise.

I am sorry if I offend Thommo, that is not the point of my posting. If the owner of the forum feels that is the appropriate thing for me to do is leave, I'm sure I will be the first to know.



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Re:ANGER AT ABUSERS

Date Posted:26/06/2009 4:18 AMCopy HTML


As pointless as it seems to be = REPLY TO IAN


Oh, I see. This is your justification for what has been completely uncharitable and slanderous behaviour on your part? Such an admission simply must make things right then, mustn't it?

Well seeing justification for the way people speak to others is not a high priority here, taking your example, I guess it is entirely unnecessary to even bother.

How I speak to people? Have you stopped to consider your own approach?

 

Yep, sure have.

 

 Unlike you I intentionally write in a "clinical", almost "sterile" fashion; I choose my words carefully, and I express myself with clarity and concision. I don't; however, make it a point to attack people personally, simply their arguments.

 

Well if you think that’s any different from attacking them personally, fine. I don’t.

 

Forae such as this really are the "great levellers". They provide people with a pulpit who would otherwise never receive the opportunity.

 

Your lust for informing everyone and correcting their errant might make you think having a pulpit is a great thing. Personally I would rather do just about anything else.

 

Of course, this very democratic fact also gives ample demonstration why such is normally the case. But even here arguments either stand or fall based solely on their merits. Think about this.

 

I thought about it. And? You need to take everything you have ever learned about human nature Ian and turn it upside down. Then you may have even a slight idea of understanding where I am coming from. But anything to do with me being less important or useful to you than having a conversation with a rock, I guess you wouldn’t bother, because you just have me all worked out don’t you?

Of course you don't, housewife. You're not part of the Church, so how could you (or why should you)?

 

Should? Not part of my vocabulary. I am part of the body of Christ. Even though you seem to think it is your right to decide who is and isn’t (still got that revival bug up your bum), that is NOT your call.


"If"? And you were appointed to be the "messenger"? By whom, exactly?

 

I have just the same right to express an opinion as you do. Just because someone asked you to, means squat.


It's my role here to point out the errors in peoples' thinking. That's why I was invited. And I do so because "stuff" eventually "sinks-in", the end result being that "longer-termers" start to reflect on matters with greater insight and clarity. You're miles from reaching that point, by the way.

 

That is assuming that you are the keeper of error free thinking. You want to think you hold the keys to that, bully for you. You don’t.

 

You've been consistently targeting me, and then in a very personal way.

 

You refuse to see the possible abuse in the way you speak to others.

Clearly, housewife.

 

Gee Ian you say that like it is come kind of INSULT. I wonder how many of the housewives here are offended by that clear concise comment? See above.

No. But you obviously need superiors who do know more than you, to point out when you're holding the wrong end of the stick (that is, if you'd stop swinging it around for a moment).

 

Stop swinging the stick when there are wolves afoot? Not likely. I don’t need superiors or inferiors. Ever ask yourself why you do?


No doubt. And just sometimes the emperor isn't the only person running around unclad.

 

I have no problem knowing I am naked.

You apparently know less about how things work in the military than you do about Christian theology.

 

Yeah I’m just so uniformed. I hear you may be coming to an army base close by. Perhaps we should do afternoon tea.

 

I wonder why it is, then, that you seem to have so many "tickets" on yourself, but refuse to allow others one or two. Perhaps it's pride?

 

Tickets? Again you attribute me with motivations that are completely off base. Thankfully I have been through enough life experience now to have had the pride knocked out of me more times than you have had hot dinners. Let’s hope you don’t have as many before you divest yourself of yours.


 

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Re:ANGER AT ABUSERS

Date Posted:26/06/2009 7:12 AMCopy HTML

Reply to Galien:

Now I find it has turned into something else altogether. It is one thing to have an invited "expert" to refute the doctrine of tongues in a a bid to draw further people out of the revival mess.It is another thing altogether to have said "expert" demean and abuse already abused people.

Hi Galien, maybe there could be less snappy bites in the discussion... 

You're accusing Ian of demeaning and abusing, but I've just read through all the conversations over the last week, and I don't see it. You started up with a comment in the thread discussing homosexual marriage. Ian replied in the context that he usually does, theologically. I think it was a very simple reply that was entirely in the spirit of the discussion at hand. You stated, as a Christian, what you believe about homosexual marriage, and Ian responded with what the Bible says about it. All quite normal and expected in a forum such as this. Your responses in turn just seemed to take all this far too personally then was intended.

The start of your interactions:

Galien: I must be a weird kind of person. I have never, even in my 9 years in revival and my subsequent 10 years in another pentecostal church, ever considered it my business what other people do in their private lives. If same sex couples want to marry, what the hell does it even have to do with me? I have more than enough to keep me busy looking after my own backyard. Personally I am more bothered by the fact I live in a society that is so completely obsessed with their outward appearance to the almost complete neglect of their inner character.

Ian: Well, I wouldn't dare presume to comment on your degree of "weirdness" or otherwise, but if you spent 19 yearsin a "Christian" church culture, and in spite of this believed that same sex marriage was okay, then I will presume that you didn't spend much of those 19 years reading the Bible! As I've maintained several times over the past few years in my musings here: theology informs beliefs, which then informs ethics. In your case it seems that inadequate/poor theology led to what are markedly unbiblical beliefs, which have resulted in decidedly un-Christian ethics. Something, perhaps, to consider.
[LINK SiteName=Mothrust: Movies and Modern Myth Target=_blank]http://aintchristian.blogspot.com.au/[/LINK] Be nice, for everyone that you meet is fighting a harder battle - Anita Roddick
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Re:ANGER AT ABUSERS

Date Posted:26/06/2009 1:41 PMCopy HTML

Galien,

I'm thinking you enjoy the attention smiley11

Ian

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Re:ANGER AT ABUSERS

Date Posted:26/06/2009 10:18 PMCopy HTML

No, I'm an introvert. Don't like attention at all.

What I dont like is how easily people buy the little boxes that our culture sells us.

For example the barbie doll box where "if I don't weigh 50kg, have blonde hair and decorative function only, I am not acceptable".

The "that person can act/sing/play sport so they must be so much more important than me" box.

The "I have more money/status/power/intelligence/education than you, therefore I am superior to you in some way" box.

My particular favourite, the "I am a christian and therefore the elect of god and I understand things you dont, and if you refuse to believe what I believe, then I can call you a heathen, tell you that you are an abomination, that you are going to hell and I'm not, and I can even justify this behaviour by waving a bible at you, and when you ask me why I say GOD SAID" box.

These things often operate under the surface of our behaviour, but they are there. We become a christian, lob up to church on a sunday, some guy up the front tells us who we should be. Persoanlly, I need to know by watching that guy's heart that he actually has some idea of what he is on about before I will even consider taking on board what he has to say. We watch all the other christians around us model "christian" behavior, and because we spend so much time in a christian environment we don't even realise we are becoming judgemental because that is the prevailing acceptable behaviour in those environments.

You know it has never been the fact that the emporer was naked that fascinated me as much as the way people can encourage each other to be blind for the sake of acceptance. I am a strange creature, pretty well allergic to herd behaviour, and thank god for that.

We are capable of so much better, God has given us so many tools to see through the crap in this world, but we don't always use them. People get so caught up with what the herd thinks, and often, being accepted by whatever group we are with at the time becomes more important than who God has made us capable of being. We have an experience with god and start to love him and want to follow in his ways, but often bring all this other crap into our christian experience without even realising it. 

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Re:ANGER AT ABUSERS

Date Posted:26/06/2009 10:41 PMCopy HTML

You're accusing Ian of demeaning and abusing, but I've just read through all the conversations over the last week, and I don't see it. You started up with a comment in the thread discussing homosexual marriage. Ian replied in the context that he usually does, theologically. I think it was a very simple reply that was entirely in the spirit of the discussion at hand. You stated, as a Christian, what you believe about homosexual marriage, and Ian responded with what the Bible says about it. All quite normal and expected in a forum such as this. Your responses in turn just seemed to take all this far too personally then was intended.
***************************************************************************************************

Not having been on this forum for some time I did not expect to be answered in the tone that I was. It is his tone that is at issue.

I KNOW what the Bible says about homosexuality. In my mind that is not the issue. In Ian's it is the only issue. Belief systems of any kind in theory are nice.

In real life I realise no amount of jumping up and down that I do is going to stop anyone being a homosexual. It is not going to stop the government making same sex marriage legal. It WILL happen. In the mind of the majority it is not a moral issue, but a civil rights issue.

I no longer have a great deal of emotional response to moral issues. I am not prepared to stand there, bible in hand pointing the finger at anyone. There are already thousands of christians who think that is what they "should" be doing if they are a "good christian" who reads their bible. They can knock themselves out, and they probably will.

If Ian thinks its okay to decide who is "worth it" and who isn't, fine. I don't have that luxury. Everyone is worth it Moth. Even Ian.  
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Re:ANGER AT ABUSERS

Date Posted:26/06/2009 11:00 PMCopy HTML

Good morning, Galien.

I think "tone" can often be quite difficult to establish in the 2-dimensional written "universe"; consequently, it often pays to not leap to conclusions with both feet. As you said, you hadn't been here for a while, so you weren't aware of the "tone" with which I write. You immediately jumped to a conclusion which the evidence didn't warrant, and continued to escalate matters when advised to the contrary.

And, of course, this discussion was never about me telling people they had to "...toe the biblical/Christian line". I simply presented the biblical perspective for consideration, and was prepared to debate the relative merits of it versus a humanist perspective. Context, context, context.

Ian

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Re:ANGER AT ABUSERS

Date Posted:28/06/2009 12:00 AMCopy HTML

REPLY TO IAN

Good morning Ian

I think "tone" can often be quite difficult to establish in the 2-dimensional written "universe"; consequently, it often pays to not leap to conclusions with both feet. As you said, you hadn't been here for a while, so you weren't aware of the "tone" with which I write. You immediately jumped to a conclusion which the evidence didn't warrant, and continued to escalate matters when advised to the contrary.

Tone is always a interesting one. My initial reply was based not only on your reply to me, but the general tone in your postings to all. Look Ian I was married to a man who talks to people like you do for fifteen years. I've had work colleagues, pastors etc do the same. It is an uneccesary annoyance in life to have to deal with people who are up themselves, or who appear to be. Australians tend to dislike that in a person. It may be your habit, but the majority of people to whom I have shown your postings felt that your tone is condescending and laced with an underlying assumption of superiority. If that is to be your default position, that's up to you, just know that there are some who find it offensive and will continue to tell you so. Simple really.

If you are here to point things out to people, why run them off with your personality? Seems to defeat the purpose.

My default position is that I will do pretty much anything for anyone, and listen to what anyone has to say, if I am approached with respect. However, anyone who thinks they can come at me from a position of superiority, or speak to me in a parental way will get pretty short shrift. Nil interest in dealing with that crap.

And, of course, this discussion was never about me telling people they had to "...toe the biblical/Christian line". I simply presented the biblical perspective for consideration, and was prepared to debate the relative merits of it versus a humanist perspective. Context, context, context.

If that is not your intent, perhaps you should try to word things in a way that does not imply that. Every time a person expresses an opinion, you instantly jump on them with "the bible says.................................". Well der Ian, I'm sure we have all spent more than enough time reading it, interpreting it, having it used as a medium to abuse us etc. We know what it says okay. We are in a forum for ex members of a spiritually abusive organisation. Perhaps some of us are sick to death of having the bible used on us to make us feel inadequate, misinterpreted to shame us into doing what oversight wanted or a hundred other sick and abusive things. Some of us have had our christianity torn from our hearts by abusers, our families ripped apart, lost lifelong friends. It does pay to remember where we are, and from whence we have come. Location, location, location.
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Re:ANGER AT ABUSERS

Date Posted:29/06/2009 1:04 AMCopy HTML

In my mind you instantly became the poster boy for every arrogant pastor and house leader I ever had the misfortune to meet. I cannot possibly understand why you think it is okay to speak to people the way you do, particularly people who have already been hurt enough by men acting EXACTLY LIKE YOU. Why would you do that? In my mind you instantly became the poster boy for every arrogant pastor and house leader I ever had the misfortune to meet. I cannot possibly understand why you think it is okay to speak to people the way you do, particularly people who have already been hurt enough by men acting EXACTLY LIKE YOU. Why would you do that?

 

I’ve said as much in other posts. Does it make a difference? Isn’t it obvious that this is why there are very few new posts – Ian turns every post into a mud-slinging session. He must have recognised himself in your first post. His learning and maturity are underlined by all the stupid little emoticons he sprinkles through his insults. These are his “expert” contributions.

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Re:ANGER AT ABUSERS

Date Posted:29/06/2009 1:53 AMCopy HTML

REPLY TO PILINUT

No, it probably doesn't make a difference. All the book learnin' in the world makes no difference if one does not get the point. The point being, in my humble opinion, that as christians we ALL need to get the proverbial hand off it and realise who we are, who we REALLY are. One of the great benefits of being a christian for so many years is that it has taught me to thoroughly scrutinise every attitude I have, every dark nasty little corner of my heart and mind. It has taught me to tell the truth to myself and others.

Christians generally act as though they are superior to others. They can be, and often are judgemental, self righteous, self involved. Some of those who go on to further study the bible and pull it apart think they are better still. Rubbish. If you have the intelligence to complete university study, should not that intelligence also inform you of the need to be kind to others? Should it not tell you to search your own heart FIRST? To get right in there and ask yourself, why do you need everyone's approval, everyone's respect, the need for power over others? The need to expound to the unsuspecting and clearly inferior masses what you know to be right? Why do we need to impress our academic peers with our ability to write a paper? If we are not academic, why do we need a bigger house than the bloke next door, a bigger TV, a better job?

None of this stuff need matter to Christians. It all pales into insipid background noise compared to what we have been given by god.

Ian, like all of us, has nasty little dark corners of his mind and ego. Clearly his life experiences have caused him to need the approval of others. I suspect they are corners he does not choose to visit often. You are right Pilinut in saying his lack of maturity and empathy shows in the way he chooses to express himself.

I have been quite disappointed to see what has gone on here since Ian "took over". Luckily for me I have been out of revival for almost 16 years. I don't need the likes of Ian to set me straight. If he helps others, and they can stand his arrogance, fine, his arrogant and dissmissive manner just makes me want to smack him upside the head with a big, wet fish.

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Re:ANGER AT ABUSERS

Date Posted:29/06/2009 11:04 PMCopy HTML

Good morning, Galien.

To begin with, I can't help but thinking that it was rather "wise" for you not to seek to practice as a psychologist (assuming for the moment, that you were ever qualified to do so). Psychologically wounded people really have no business attempting to help other psychologically wounded people.

I'd like to comment, if I may, on several particularly erroneous points that you've made in your latest piece:

Christians generally act as though they are superior to others. They can be, and often are judgemental, self righteous, self involved.

Certainly, you've convincingly demonstrated as much over the past couple of weeks, here.

Some of those who go on to further study the bible and pull it apart think they are better still. Rubbish. If you have the intelligence to complete university study, should not that intelligence also inform you of the need to be kind to others?

This begs the question, how on earth did you reach the conclusion that supposedly having the "smarts" to complete university study informs one of the need to be "kind" to others? Could you please explain for me the correlation between academic study and affective behaviour of the sort that you described? And further, would you be so good as to define "kind" for me?

Ian, like all of us, has nasty little dark corners of his mind and ego. Clearly his life experiences have caused him to need the approval of others.

To be honest, I really don't think you could sustain such an hypothesis. If my "life's experiences" somehow instilled in me a requirement to seek out the approval of others, then why would I be in the business of challenging people the way that I do, here? Why would it be that my approach shows neither fear nor favour to anyone? Ask around, and I think you'll discover that there isn't a single person who regularly engages at this site who hasn't been "challenged" by me after the fashion that I've challenged you. "Tickling" ears and egos simply hasn't been what I've done.

You are right Pilinut in saying his lack of maturity and empathy shows in the way he chooses to express himself.

Being one who is open to constructive criticism, I'd invite you to extrapolate on the above statement, and explain your assessment of my supposed lack of maturity. I might find it helpful.

I have been quite disappointed to see what has gone on here since Ian "took over".

I'm sure you have. But I was just as actively engaged in the original forum as on this one; I have been actively engaged in these matters since the very beginning (in other words, well before you or any of the others "popped" onto the scene). And this, please remember, is a forum: it invites participation, it encourages discussion and debate. I choose to engage, you choose to denounce. But I hope you'll excuse me for pointing out the obvious, my involvement has substantively and substantially helped a very good many people to leave Revivalism in all its forms. What has your engagement achieved thus far?

Luckily for me I have been out of revival for almost 16 years. I don't need the likes of Ian to set me straight. If he helps others, and they can stand his arrogance, fine, his arrogant and dissmissive manner just makes me want to smack him upside the head with a big, wet fish.

You may have been "out" of Revival for 16 years, but what you've shared here demonstrates that you're hardly a "poster girl" for "good choices" and "right thinking" subsequently. To be honest, you present as being far too proud to accept that you need the help of others to "set you straight". As you've admitted, you're far from being healthy emotionally, to which I would add spiritually. Perhaps, then, you should concentrate on getting "better" first, before making judgments concerning the "health" of others, or engaging in confrontations which you apparently aren't emotionally equipped to handle at this point?

Now please try to take this on board: your behaviour and your approach to date have been markedly "inconsistent". To use a biblical aphorism, you simply don't "practice what you preach". And given your single-eyed focus towards me, perhaps you'd be better served joing the other group? You know the one, the forum established specifically to denounce me?


Ian


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Re:ANGER AT ABUSERS

Date Posted:30/06/2009 2:34 AMCopy HTML

REPLY TO IAN

Good morning, Ian.

To begin with, I can't help but thinking that it was rather "wise" for you not to seek to practice as a psychologist (assuming for the moment, that you were ever qualified to do so). Psychologically wounded people really have no business attempting to help other psychologically wounded people.

No shit sherlock. To be qualified one needs to do a year of counselling skills. I have chosen to follow what I am best at, and that is accounting/administation.

This begs the question, how on earth did you reach the conclusion that supposedly having the "smarts" to complete university study informs one of the need to be "kind" to others? Could you please explain for me the correlation between academic study and affective behaviour of the sort that you described? And further, would you be so good as to define "kind" for me?

Oh its affective behaviour is it? God forbid you should ever be guilty of that. To be frowned upon at all costs Ian? I will always remember the vitriol that dripped from the lips of my pastor when I told him he wasn't nice. "Nice?, I don't have to be nice, where does the Bible say that?" And Ian since kindness is a fruit of the spirit, and I assume you have some relationship with the spirit of god in whatever form, you would know what it is. It is the capacity to look past the end of one's own nose, to put one's own "affective" feelings and needs, and sometimes one's knowledge aside and minister to the other person, in the form that is required, but in a way that does not offend or make the person feel inferior. It's common sense. Even low functioning people can do it, all the more reason those with higher intelligence should not find it hard. I always have the feeling that if you had passed that man in the Samaritan story you would have bloody well left him there if after investigation he was found to have "wrong thinking".

To be honest, I really don't think you could sustain such an hypothesis. If my "life's experiences" somehow instilled in me a requirement to seek out the approval of others, then why would I be in the business of challenging people the way that I do, here? Why would it be that my approach shows neither fear nor favour to anyone? Ask around, and I think you'll discover that there isn't a single person who regularly engages at this site who hasn't been "challenged" by me after the fashion that I've challenged you. "Tickling" ears and egos simply hasn't been what I've done.

Cool, then we are on the same page. I am challenging you Ian, but not in a way you appear to understand. So you just speak to everyone like the know all patriarch? Don't know if you noticed or not, but very few people under 50 give much credence to that persona anymore. Someone here said something about you being like his family dentist. Apparently that means you are a person I should trust. I had the interesting experience of being a sex worker for three months when I was younger. It was then I learned all I needed to know about the clever, suit clad "trustworthy" men in our community.
 
Being one who is open to constructive criticism, I'd invite you to extrapolate on the above statement, and explain your assessment of my supposed lack of maturity. I might find it helpful.

Its your stupid icons Ian, the ones with smartass written all over them, and your use of emphasis.

But I was just as actively engaged in the original forum as on this one; I have been actively engaged in these matters since the very beginning (in other words, well before you or any of the others "popped" onto the scene). And this, please remember, is a forum: it invites participation, it encourages discussion and debate. I choose to engage, you choose to denounce. But I hope you'll excuse me for pointing out the obvious, my involvement has substantively and substantially helped a very good many people to leave Revivalism in all its forms. What has your engagement achieved thus far?

 "substantively" and "substantially"? You seem pretty chuffed with yourself for helping others Ian, it is not the first time you have pointed that out, and if you don't think you do that with an "aren't I just wonderful" attitude, then you would be wrong. It is not about me denouncing you, it is about me challenging you to challenge yourself, and to stop speaking to people like a BLOODY PASTOR.

You may have been "out" of Revival for 16 years, but what you've shared here demonstrates that you're hardly a "poster girl" for "good choices" and "right thinking" subsequently.

He he, I would be the last person to be a poster girl for ANYTHING. You just don't get the bit where I don't have to prove anything to anyone Ian. Of the two of us, I'm not the one blowing my horn about how good I am, how much I have helped others etc.

To be honest, you present as being far too proud to accept that you need the help of others to "set you straight".

You, you mean. Because you are JUST the man for the job aren't you Ian?

As you've admitted, you're far from being healthy emotionally, to which I would add spiritually. Perhaps, then, you should concentrate on getting "better" first, before making judgments concerning the "health" of others, or engaging in confrontations which you apparently aren't emotionally equipped to handle at this point?

Ya think? I'm still here after a couple of weeks of this bullshit Ian. I don't give up easily.

Now please try to take this on board: your behaviour and your approach to date have been markedly "inconsistent". To use a biblical aphorism, you simply don't "practice what you preach". And given your single-eyed focus towards me, perhaps you'd be better served joing the other group? You know the one, the forum established specifically to denounce me?

Well if I thought you were important enough, I probably would. But Ian I don't play the games most people do. I thought I had explained that. But once again if it quacks like a duck, and walks like a duck, you automatically assume its a duck. On this occasion you woudl be wrong about that. Seeing you pretty well jump in and hijack everything here, its pretty hard to find a place were you are not sticking your apparently well informed nose in.

IAN ADULTS DO NOT LIKE TO BE SPOKEN TO LIKE THEY ARE CHILDREN. YOU ARE NOT OUR PARENT. DEAL WITH IT
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Re:ANGER AT ABUSERS

Date Posted:30/06/2009 3:29 AMCopy HTML

Good afternoon, Galien.

To begin with, I can't help but thinking that it was rather "wise" for you not to seek to practice as a psychologist (assuming for the moment, that you were ever qualified to do so). Psychologically wounded people really have no business attempting to help other psychologically wounded people.

No shit sherlock. To be qualified one needs to do a year of counselling skills. I have chosen to follow what I am best at, and that is accounting/administation.

Indeed. You're clearly much less of a "people person" yourself, then you've accused me of being. But the additional "qualifications" that you listed as being necessary to practice as a psychologist didn't even begin to scratch the surface of what is actually required. Registration requires oh so much more.

This begs the question, how on earth did you reach the conclusion that supposedly having the "smarts" to complete university study informs one of the need to be "kind" to others? Could you please explain for me the correlation between academic study and affective behaviour of the sort that you described? And further, would you be so good as to define "kind" for me?

Oh its affective behaviour is it? God forbid you should ever be guilty of that. To be frowned upon at all costs Ian? I will always remember the vitriol that dripped from the lips of my pastor when I told him he wasn't nice. "Nice?, I don't have to be nice, where does the Bible say that?" And Ian since kindness is a fruit of the spirit, and I assume you have some relationship with the spirit of god in whatever form, you would know what it is. It is the capacity to look past the end of one's own nose, to put one's own "affective" feelings and needs, and sometimes one's knowledge aside and minister to the other person, in the form that is required, but in a way that does not offend or make the person feel inferior. It's common sense. Even low functioning people can do it, all the more reason those with higher intelligence should not find it hard. I always have the feeling that if you had passed that man in the Samaritan story you would have bloody well left him there if after investigation he was found to have "wrong thinking".

I'm sorry, but did you actually answer the question?

To be honest, I really don't think you could sustain such an hypothesis. If my "life's experiences" somehow instilled in me a requirement to seek out the approval of others, then why would I be in the business of challenging people the way that I do, here? Why would it be that my approach shows neither fear nor favour to anyone? Ask around, and I think you'll discover that there isn't a single person who regularly engages at this site who hasn't been "challenged" by me after the fashion that I've challenged you. "Tickling" ears and egos simply hasn't been what I've done.

Cool, then we are on the same page. I am challenging you Ian, but not in a way you appear to understand. So you just speak to everyone like the know all patriarch? Don't know if you noticed or not, but very few people under 50 give much credence to that persona anymore. Someone here said something about you being like his family dentist. Apparently that means you are a person I should trust. I had the interesting experience of being a sex worker for three months when I was younger. It was then I learned all I needed to know about the clever, suit clad "trustworthy" men in our community.

Again, did you actually respond to my point?

Being one who is open to constructive criticism, I'd invite you to extrapolate on the above statement, and explain your assessment of my supposed lack of maturity. I might find it helpful.

Its your stupid icons Ian, the ones with smartass written all over them, and your use of emphasis.

Oh, I see. You've judged my personal maturity based on (a) my use of "emoticons", and (b) my use of rather standard conventions for noting emphasis in written communication. Well, I'm glad that you cleared that matter up

But I was just as actively engaged in the original forum as on this one; I have been actively engaged in these matters since the very beginning (in other words, well before you or any of the others "popped" onto the scene). And this, please remember, is a forum: it invites participation, it encourages discussion and debate. I choose to engage, you choose to denounce. But I hope you'll excuse me for pointing out the obvious, my involvement has substantively and substantially helped a very good many people to leave Revivalism in all its forms. What has your engagement achieved thus far?

"substantively" and "substantially"? You seem pretty chuffed with yourself for helping others Ian, it is not the first time you have pointed that out, and if you don't think you do that with an "aren't I just wonderful" attitude, then you would be wrong. It is not about me denouncing you, it is about me challenging you to challenge yourself, and to stop speaking to people like a BLOODY PASTOR.

Right. My points were that, (a) you're something of a "jenny come lately", and (b) that what I do here actually helps people. I reflect on what you do, and it seems that you've somewhat defined yourself by your attacking of people. I'm sorry, but for these and other reasons I perceive there to be far more of the average Revivalist "pastor" in your actions than in my own.

You may have been "out" of Revival for 16 years, but what you've shared here demonstrates that you're hardly a "poster girl" for "good choices" and "right thinking" subsequently.

He he, I would be the last person to be a poster girl for ANYTHING. You just don't get the bit where I don't have to prove anything to anyone Ian. Of the two of us, I'm not the one blowing my horn about how good I am, how much I have helped others etc.

The point is valid, actually. You've done naught else but accuse me of hurting people. But the facts point in precisely the opposite direction.

To be honest, you present as being far too proud to accept that you need the help of others to "set you straight".

You, you mean. Because you are JUST the man for the job aren't you Ian?

I doubt that you would be inclined to listen to any man. Yet I'm apparently a misogynist (what is the female equivalent, by the way?)

As you've admitted, you're far from being healthy emotionally, to which I would add spiritually. Perhaps, then, you should concentrate on getting "better" first, before making judgments concerning the "health" of others, or engaging in confrontations which you apparently aren't emotionally equipped to handle at this point?

Ya think? I'm still here after a couple of weeks of this bullshit Ian. I don't give up easily.

Sure. And I've been here for 12 years myself; having put up with all manner of Revivalist pastors, the Luke's of this world and those very much like you. I suppose, then, I have a little "staying power" myself.

Now please try to take this on board: your behaviour and your approach to date have been markedly "inconsistent". To use a biblical aphorism, you simply don't "practice what you preach". And given your single-eyed focus towards me, perhaps you'd be better served joing the other group? You know the one, the forum established specifically to denounce me?

Well if I thought you were important enough, I probably would. But Ian I don't play the games most people do. I thought I had explained that. But once again if it quacks like a duck, and walks like a duck, you automatically assume its a duck. On this occasion you woudl be wrong about that. Seeing you pretty well jump in and hijack everything here, its pretty hard to find a place were you are not sticking your apparently well informed nose in.

Well, the truth be told, I didn't really expect you to acknowledge your inconsistency/hypocrisy. But I thought it politic to point it out to you just on the off chance that you cared, 

IAN ADULTS DO NOT LIKE TO BE SPOKEN TO LIKE THEY ARE CHILDREN. YOU ARE NOT OUR PARENT. DEAL WITH IT

Sure. But just how does one speak to adults who behave like children?

Ian



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Re:ANGER AT ABUSERS

Date Posted:30/06/2009 4:45 AMCopy HTML

Ian, I am not sure whether or not your question was rhetorical. However...

Mysogyny = a hatred of women
Misandry = a hatred of men
Misanthropy = a hatred of mankind
Misogamy = a hatred of marriage

John

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Re:ANGER AT ABUSERS

Date Posted:30/06/2009 4:54 AMCopy HTML

Many thanks, John.

The question wasn't rhetorical (I really didn't have a clue). But thanks to your reply, I can add another three words to my passive vocab, which will hopefully help me to trounce my daughter the next time we play scrabble!

Ian

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Re:ANGER AT ABUSERS

Date Posted:30/06/2009 5:04 AMCopy HTML

Reply to Ian

Personally, I just hate bullshit. Is there a term for that?

Ian do you love God? By that I mean feel affection for him, intensely desire to be in his presence? Do the things you read in the Bible actually touch the depths of your soul? Or is being a christian just a dry intellectual thing for you?

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Re:ANGER AT ABUSERS

Date Posted:30/06/2009 5:09 AMCopy HTML

Galien.

Personally, I just hate bullshit. Is there a term for that?

'Yes', It's called orthodox Christianity.

Ian do you love God? By that I mean feel affection for him, intensely desire to be in his presence? Do the things you read in the Bible actually touch the depths of your soul?

With every fiber of my being. I live by Anselm's credo: "faith seeking understanding" (and not the reverse).

Or is being a christian just a dry intellectual thing for you?

The idea is impossible never mind inconceivable.

Ian

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Re:ANGER AT ABUSERS

Date Posted:30/06/2009 5:36 AMCopy HTML

Galien.

Personally, I just hate bullshit. Is there a term for that?

'Yes', It's called orthodox Christianity.

Orthodox = that which is commonly accepted. No wonder I have trouble with it. But it wasn't the christianity I was referring to Ian. I don't march to the same drum as most people, whether its loving god or anything else.

Ian do you love God? By that I mean feel affection for him, intensely desire to be in his presence? Do the things you read in the Bible actually touch the depths of your soul?

With every fiber of my being. I live by Anselm's credo: "faith seeking understanding" (and not the reverse).

Marvellous. How about trying to show a bit of it to others then. I feel NOTHING from you. Nothing except the sure and certain knowledge you are right. I live by my own credo, pinched from the bible - if I have not love I am nothing.

Or is being a christian just a dry intellectual thing for you?

The idea is impossible never mind inconceivable.

Then show me Ian. Show me some passion that involves others and not just yourself.
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Re:ANGER AT ABUSERS

Date Posted:30/06/2009 5:47 AMCopy HTML

Galien,

I don't think you do a very good job of "listening" well to others. For example, you claim to not "marching to the beat of the same drum" as everyone else, but you would then apparently demand that I should "fall into step" with you. Sorry, but that's simply more in the way of the inconsistency that I've come to expect from your writings. Consequently, I'm going to save you further embarrassment from this point on by no longer devoting time to engaging with you. I simply just can't see the point in wasting further time or effort.

Ian

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Re:ANGER AT ABUSERS

Date Posted:30/06/2009 6:00 AMCopy HTML

REPLY TO IAN

I don't think you do a very good job of "listening" very well to others. You claim to not "marching to the beat of the same drum" as everyone else, but you would then apparently demand that I "fall into step" with you. Sorry, but that's simply more in the way of inconsistency from you. I'm going to save you further embarrassment from this point on, by no longer devoting time to your comments. Seriously, I can't see the point.

I am not embarrassed Ian, and the very fact you think I should be says more about you than it does about me. It is in fact you Ian that demand others fall in step with you. Anyone who doesn't is wrong. I have simply asked that you take a look at the way you speak to others. You are not prepared to do that. I have asked you to show me something of substance. You are clearly not prepared to do that either. Feelings really aren't that scary Ian. I hope one day you are willing to reconnect with yours.

Galien
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Re:ANGER AT ABUSERS

Date Posted:30/06/2009 8:24 AMCopy HTML



Christians generally act as though they are superior to others. They can be, and often are judgemental, self righteous, self involved.

Hi Galien,

No, Christians generally do not act as though they are superior to others.  Neither are they generally judgemental, self righteous and self involved.  Not the ones I know.  I would say that with few exceptions the Christians I know aim to seek a more excellent way, the way of love which Paul describes so beautifully in 1 Corinthians 13.

We can't afford to judge all Christians by the bad experience we might have had in Revival or the like.  Yes, I have issues with the Revival system and what it does to people, but I appreciate that there are also many good people in Revival groups who are mistakenly in complete obedience to those who have the [mis] rule over their souls and don't realise it.  I've been there.  Although I disagree with the dogma, the church government, the way people are treated and the way many turn the other cheek time and time again etc etc etc, love and forgiveness has to be applied.  Forgiveness is a great healer.

God Bless you.

Epi










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Re:ANGER AT ABUSERS

Date Posted:30/06/2009 8:55 AMCopy HTML

Hi Epi

No, Christians generally do not act as though they are superior to others.  Neither are they generally judgemental, self righteous and self involved.  Not the ones I know.  I would say that with few exceptions the Christians I know aim to seek a more excellent way, the way of love which Paul describes so beautifully in 1 Corinthians 13.

Then you probably don't hang around pentecostals. Some of the nicest christians I know are actually baptists. Daggy as all get out, but humble, kind, loving.

We can't afford to judge all Christians by the bad experience we might have had in Revival or the like.

No probably not. Guess I just don't like what happens to people when you put them in a group. I just want the church to be so differnt from the world, but it isn't. I know I am an idealist, but I just am.

  Yes, I have issues with the Revival system and what it does to people, but I appreciate that there are also many good people in Revival groups who are mistakenly in complete obedience to those who have the [mis] rule over their souls and don't realise it.  I've been there.  Although I disagree with the dogma, the church government, the way people are treated and the way many turn the other cheek time and time again etc etc etc, love and forgiveness has to be applied.  Forgiveness is a great healer.

The Revival system is pure evil. Not original though, there are many other cults that operate exactly the same way. The poor JW's here are scared to come to my door now lest we get into a conversation about shunning.

I am happy for the many people who have left Revival and have been able to find a church home where they can feel comfortable and find a place of forgiveness and healing. It isn't forgiveness I have a problem with, it is the unrepentant refusal of the revival oversight to even admit they have abused people. I would be the first to admit I am a pretty intense person, and I have strong reactions to injustice. I can no longer tolerate that kind of behaviour at all.

It seems to me that if anyone treated people like that in any other arena in society, they would be legally liable. But churches just get away with murder.

Galien
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Re:ANGER AT ABUSERS

Date Posted:01/07/2009 1:21 AMCopy HTML

Ian,

My sister-in-law gets snaky with me when we play scrabble. There is no such word as "prithee"!. The hernia sized Oxford dictionary gets hauled out and she mumbles to herself when I show her there is.

I wish in Scrabble one could only put "oneirio" and add "mancies" = "oneiriomancies" (the interpretation of dreams to foretell the future).

Why do I like the word "oneiriomancies"? It is an exception to the "i" before "e" rule ..... twice!

John
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Re:ANGER AT ABUSERS

Date Posted:01/07/2009 1:30 AMCopy HTML

John,

Ha! I can relate! Whenever we play Scrabble, both wife and daughters have dictionaries at their elbows, and it seems to me that they get used with far more frequency than they ought (just about every time I put down my tiles, actually). I've day-dreamed about purchasing the 26 volumes Exhaustive Oxford English Dictionary in a fit of one-up-manship, but I know that someone in my family would cry, "foul!" My younger daughter is something of a word-smith, and she's been known to trounce me to such an extent that I come off looking rather like an idiot. The two of us have also managed to use every tile on two separate occasions now.

I personally recommend two ways of expanding one's vocab., whether active or passive: (1) reading the dictionary, which is probably an over-dull pastime; or (2) playing Scrabble!

Ian

email: didaktikon@gmail.com
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Re:ANGER AT ABUSERS

Date Posted:01/07/2009 2:06 AMCopy HTML

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Ian,

"
just about every time I put down my tiles, actually" what a hoot!

I personally recommend two ways of expanding one's vocab., whether active or passive: (1) reading the dictionary, which is probably an over-dull pastime; or (2) playing Scrabble! ….plus Shakespeare and Crosswords in my case

John

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Re:ANGER AT ABUSERS

Date Posted:01/07/2009 4:04 AMCopy HTML


Ian:
I've day-dreamed about purchasing the 26 volumes Exhaustive Oxford English Dictionary in a fit of one-up-manship, but I know that someone in my family would cry, "foul!"

Really Ian, one-up-manship? Even in Scrabble? You? Never. Got a scripture reference on that one?
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Re:ANGER AT ABUSERS

Date Posted:01/07/2009 5:14 AMCopy HTML

Reply to Didaktikon (30/06/2009 19:30:18)
John,

My younger daughter is something of a word-smith, and she's been known to trounce me to such an extent that I come off looking rather like an idiot. The two of us have also managed to use every tile on two separate occasions now.


Ian


One day you will come home and your daughter will say to you: "Dad I'm going to Bible College ...  "

Metanoia


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Re:ANGER AT ABUSERS

Date Posted:01/07/2009 5:22 AMCopy HTML

Eric, chaire.

Well it's possible I suppose, albeit unlikely. Both my daughters have chosen career streams of different sorts to follow.

Blessings,

Ian

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Re:ANGER AT ABUSERS

Date Posted:01/07/2009 5:59 AMCopy HTML

Reply to Didaktikon (30/06/2009 23:22:14)

Eric, chaire.

Well it's possible I suppose, albeit unlikely. Both my daughters have chosen career streams of different sorts to follow.

Blessings,

Ian


Ianos kai didaskalos, Chaire.

I was only mentioning it in friendly chat... but seriously my general observation is that people usually don't just go to Bible College.. God calls them and that Ian is the general rule and if God has a plan for your daughter(s) lives, they will come to know it. Often you find folk in BC who havn't a wink of an idea of why they are there or where they want to end up and yet without them realizing it, God is preparing them for something He has in mind for them somewhere further on in time down the track..
But if either of your daughters does decide to go to BC or a Theological seminary, you can be confident that it is God at work and Ian never doubt for one minute that with God, all things are possible.

Eirene

Eric  
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Re:ANGER AT ABUSERS

Date Posted:01/07/2009 10:05 PMCopy HTML

Just a little something for all of us to consider, and I am particularly including myself in that.

But I tell you, on the day of judgement men will have to give account for every idle (inoperative, nonworking) word they speak. For by your words you will be justified and acquitted, and by your words will you be condemned and sentenced.

Matthew 12 36,37 Amplified Bible
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Re:ANGER AT ABUSERS

Date Posted:02/07/2009 1:37 AMCopy HTML

Re: Woman caught in adultery.

I won't start a new thread, this one will do. I don't think it matters if the woman caught in adultery is an interpolation or not. I am assuming God knew what he wanted in the bible. So did he have control over that or didn't he? Interesting question.

I am just over the arrogance of human beings. We just think we are so clever. We can pull apart the scriptures and other historical documents until we can convince ourselves that we understand the word of god down the the last phoneme. I just don't understand why we do it.

From my point of view, God is a construct for all of us. We learn from the environment, the people around us who are interested in god, the bible, books, even athiests who we believe God to be. None of us can prove the existence of god or otherwise. We can have experiences that suggest the supernatural. Personally I have witnessed several things I cannot provide a logical explanation for. I am not able to state categorically, with proof,that there is a god.

Several years ago two men had an argument in a caravan park near where i live over creation vs evolution. One was killed. It really started me thinking about the kind of people who would fight to the death over something neither of them could prove. Even the discussions I have had with Ian here amount to two arrogant morons going at each other over nothing. I'm sure god would like to kick both our asses.

I started reading the bible when I was nine. In the person of Jesus I met someone different from anyone I had ever met before. I love everything about him. The way he dealt with the poor, the ill, the marginalised. The way he dealt with the Pharisees. The way he could see straight through everyone and everything. All I have ever wanted is to be like him. I DON'T want or need to be a theologian. I want to be a follower of Jesus, to see life the way he did. I want to be part of a church that is on its knees in constant repentance, not one that thinks it is perfect and places itself on a pedestal. I want us all to be real, to admit our mistakes, to realise none of us is perfect, not even close. To live without our masks and the things that we think give us the approval of others. To be completely honest with ourselves,and with each other.

I believe the story of the woman caught in adultery was to teach us the greatest lesson of all. That in order to really love god with all one's heart, soul, mind and strength, one needs to divest oneself of pride and learn to examine ourselves before we are too keen to put the boot into anyone else. My journey with god has taught me that in itself is a full time job.



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Re:ANGER AT ABUSERS

Date Posted:02/07/2009 2:34 AMCopy HTML

 Hello Galien,

(I don't think it matters) (I am assuming God) (I am just over the arrogance)(We just think we are)(We can pull apart the scriptures)(I just don't understand why)(From my point of view, God is)(We learn from the)(None of us can prove the)(We can have experiences that)(Personally I have witnessed several things I cannot)(I'm sure god would like to)(I started reading the bible when I was)(I met someone different from)(I love everything about)(All I have ever wanted is to)(I DON'T want or need to be)(I want to be a follower of)(I want to be part of a church that is)(I want us all to be)(I believe the story of the)

Just a different perspective from your posting.

Pax et Bonum.
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Re:ANGER AT ABUSERS

Date Posted:02/07/2009 2:43 AMCopy HTML

Reply to Mr K

My christian experience is subjective. I came to Christ as a child, and in my heart I still do, and that is the ONLY thing that has saved my faith from multiple assaults. My point being, that we can, and have, constructed a christian suit that we think we can present to other people. We can say - this is what it is, this is what it should be. One size does not fit all.

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Re:ANGER AT ABUSERS

Date Posted:02/07/2009 2:54 AMCopy HTML

Can "those who know" stop their children from getting cancer, feed the world's starving, stop wars, do anything of actual value besides tell us all how it is? There are other things to know in this world besides what is in the bible.

Or is it the same as it was in revival? Try and get the homeless filled with the holy spirit, but don't feed them. Because this life doesn't matter, its all about the "reward" at the end?
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Re:ANGER AT ABUSERS

Date Posted:02/07/2009 3:17 AMCopy HTML

 Hello Galien,

Can "those who know" stop their children from getting cancer, feed the world's starving, stop wars, do anything of actual value besides tell us all how it is? There are other things to know in this world besides what is in the bible.

     Have you been to an orthodox church lately?  If you have - how could you of missed these things being done actively by the body of Christ?  If you haven't been to one lately - I suggest you do.

Or is it the same as it was in revival? Try and get the homeless filled with the holy spirit, but don't feed them. Because this life doesn't matter, its all about the "reward" at the end?

     Again, nothing like Revival heresy.  The orthodox church is completely different. 

What kind of church do you worship God at?  The Godly traits that you state should be apparent there.

Pax et Bonum.
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Re:ANGER AT ABUSERS

Date Posted:02/07/2009 5:29 AMCopy HTML

Reply to Mr K

I don't go to church any more Mr K. The orthodox churches I have been to bore me senseless and seem not to be in touch with the real world. I remember sitting in the Church of St Thomas in Nth Sydney in 1983. My dear friend was on the parish council there. As the wind whistled through the building I felt coldness, and that is also what I felt spiritually there as well. It was like being thrown back in to the 1950's. That was before my revival experience but after the AOG. Went to the Baptist church here, but I couldn't feel much there either. I am a fairly intuitive kind of person and the feeling of a place is important to me. I had a very odd experience when I went to the AOG here. My spirit went "yuck" and I had to leave straight away. The fact it is a Hillsong mini me may have had something to do with that.

I simply no longer trust christians. In church and in general life alike I am an out there kind of person. I have no respect for the structures that our society is built on. I don't care about money, status or power. I simply do not experience life the way most people do. I find that people don't like it if you are different. It rattles thier cage. If you won't be part of the herd then in the eyes of some you become a liability, almost as though you are not allowed to think for yourself, and if you do you endanger the herd in some way.

I will give an example. I have never believed in evolution. I don't believe that carbon dating is accurate. I have no idea how it works scientifically, but I just "know" it isn't accurate. I'm weird, I will be the first person to admit that. But I want to be allowed to be who I am, and in most group situations, I'm not.

I know that some churches try to help others. I have been reading Shane Claiborne's latest book. He lives among the homeless as a way of expressing his christianity. It resonates with me quite a lot. He has a lot of the same views I do for a lot of the same reasons. I would be much better suited to a group of christians that live among the homeless than the neighbourhood orthodox church. Hopefully when my daughter finishes university, I can do exactly that.

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Re:ANGER AT ABUSERS

Date Posted:02/07/2009 5:45 AMCopy HTML

 Galien,

I'm sure when you are ready, the orthodox church will not hold that against you. 

Pax et Bonum.
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Re:ANGER AT ABUSERS

Date Posted:02/07/2009 7:02 AMCopy HTML

Hi Galian

Funnily enough, St Thomas is the church I now attend having given Revival Fellowship the flick after over 30 years just recently. I'm not old in age or my thinking, but I do love the grounded, rational thinking that pervades the services. So, to some the wind whistles through the cold building, to myself it's a breath of fresh air. It comforts me no end to start again in safe surrounds.

You say "I simply no longer trust christians". So who do you trust? If one is a Christian, are they automatically not to be trusted?

You say that you don't want to be 'part of the herd'. Strikingly close to the analogy of sheep/flock that Jesus used many times. I think being part of the 'herd' is humbling but necessary. We may think we're very different from each other - but our food, shelter and need of care is surprisingly common to us all.

And I'd say you like amongst the homeless no matter where you live, spiritually speaking.

That's my two-bobs worth.

Good luck on your journey.

Chips

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Re:ANGER AT ABUSERS

Date Posted:02/07/2009 7:14 AMCopy HTML

Galian

I meant 'live' amongst the homeless ... sorry.

Chips
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Re:ANGER AT ABUSERS

Date Posted:02/07/2009 8:46 AMCopy HTML



Funnily enough, St Thomas is the church I now attend having given Revival Fellowship the flick after over 30 years just recently. I'm not old in age or my thinking, but I do love the grounded, rational thinking that pervades the services. So, to some the wind whistles through the cold building, to myself it's a breath of fresh air. It comforts me no end to start again in safe surrounds.

I don't have anything against it, just didn't suit me. I was only 23 at the time. I was not used to what I felt were the old fashioned way of doing things. But I had friends who went ther my age and they loved it. But they loved it for reasons I could not understand. They loved the liturgy (boring), the music (wasnt too bad), the tradition (eek), but they had all grown up with it. I came from AOG. It's good you have found a place to rest and heal.

You say "I simply no longer trust christians". So who do you trust? If one is a Christian, are they automatically not to be trusted?

I trust people who accept me for who I am, without assuming they know the depths of my heart, or trying to force me to be them. When I say I'm weird, I'm Michael Jackson weird. Not on the outside, I'm a pretty boring middle aged woman. Only got my first tattoo when I turned 45. When I was 25 I was like an old woman. My kids think I'm living my life backwards. Most of my friends are still christians, but now they have stopped trying to get me to go back to church. We have known each other for years, and they understand me. I am blessed to have such wonderful people in my life. They have helped me through some very dark times, they are the hands and heart of jesus to me.

You say that you don't want to be 'part of the herd'. Strikingly close to the analogy of sheep/flock that Jesus used many times. I think being part of the 'herd' is humbling but necessary. We may think we're very different from each other - but our food, shelter and need of care is surprisingly common to us all.

For me, being part of the herd is not emotionally safe. It's an issue of psychic annihilation for me. One day I may heal from the damage that has been done to me, but I'm not holding my breath. Just me being alive at all is a miracle.

Sounds like you live amongst the homeless no matter where you live, spiritually speaking.

Never thought of it like that chips but you are so right. I have spent a lot of years trying to find my tribe. Don't think there is one.

Good luck on your journey.

Why thank you. Peace and love on yours.

Galien
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Re:ANGER AT ABUSERS

Date Posted:02/07/2009 12:44 PMCopy HTML

Reply to Galien (02/07/2009 09:05:29)
Just a little something for all of us to consider, and I am particularly including myself in that.

But I tell you, on the day of judgement men will have to give account for every idle (inoperative, nonworking) word they speak. For by your words you will be justified and acquitted, and by your words will you be condemned and sentenced.

Matthew 12 36,37 Amplified Bible

Consider the more in the context;

 

v22-32, Jesus is rebuking the Pharisees etc for their blasphemy of the Holy Spirit……

 

A Tree is Known by Its Fruit

 

v33, 33 "Make a tree good and its fruit will be good, or make a tree bad and its fruit will be bad, for a tree is recognized by its fruit. 34You brood of vipers, how can you who are evil say anything good? For out of the overflow of the heart the mouth speaks. 35The good man brings good things out of the good stored up in him, and the evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in him. 36But I tell you that men will have to give account on the Day of Judgment for every careless word they have spoken. 37For by your words you will be acquitted and by your words you will be condemned."

 

Galien, where do you see yourself with these words?

 

Seg.



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Re:ANGER AT ABUSERS

Date Posted:02/07/2009 1:02 PMCopy HTML

A Tree is Known by Its Fruit

 

v33, 33 "Make a tree good and its fruit will be good, or make a tree bad and its fruit will be bad, for a tree is recognized by its fruit. 34You brood of vipers, how can you who are evil say anything good? For out of the overflow of the heart the mouth speaks. 35The good man brings good things out of the good stored up in him, and the evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in him. 36But I tell you that men will have to give account on the Day of Judgment for every careless word they have spoken. 37For by your words you will be acquitted and by your words you will be condemned."

 

Galien, where do you see yourself with these words?

 

Seg.

Thanks for your post Seg.

I see myself as a person who speaks the truth from their heart. Perhaps one can take the girl out of the housing commission, but not the housing commission out of the girl. Bit like Ian and his revival centre problem. I would be the first to admit that Ian makes me bloody angry, but I tell the truth. I don't need to hide behind my biblical knowledge.

I guess the best way to find that out Seg would be not from me, but the people who know me. The people who experience the things that I do for them, the way I care for them, the fact that I am still able to feel or show love at all after the horrendous amount of betrayal I have been through.

I have nothing to hide behind and I like it that way. My heart has been shredded by the way people have treated me, people who should have known better. If I say as much, and feel angry about it, is that a bad thing? God knows what is in my heart, why pretend it isnt there? I yell at God a lot, he is used to me now. I'm not afraid of him Seg, he is my father. If I am condemned by my words, then I am. I am willing to deal with the consequences. I do realise though when I have overstepped the mark and ask God for forgiveness. All I can do is be transparent with God and with others.
Galien

RCI prophesies
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