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brolga
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151#
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Registered:12/09/2009
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Re:Salvation according to Luke
(Date Posted:11/10/2009 01:46:36)
Eric, Epi, regarding the "link," I wonder how Martin Luther and the Church fathers would have responded to all this if they where here today. Perhaps; "hey guys don't forget to include SOLA SCRIPTURA" 
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'It is for God above all things that we are born, and not for ourselves.' (Calvin)
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Galien
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152#
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Rank:Poster Venti II
Score:8650
Posts:425
Registered:17/01/2005
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RE:Salvation according to Luke
(Date Posted:11/10/2009 01:57:15)
Talmid,
The point is that the sentence I quoted at the start has priorities back to front from a Christian pov. To rephrase a principle that has been brought out before, Christian worship is on *God's* terms.
Which means what, exactly?
Have another look at the 2nd para in post 136# (and various copies of the post). I don't think I can be much clearer than that. Maybe chat it over with your Christian friends if it's still unclear.
Yes I got that. But do you really think God cares if one twirls ribbons, plays trumpets, beats on drums or stands still as a statue when they worship? Is there ANYTHING God doesn't go over with a fine tooth comb to assess its "rightness" or is it just othodox christians who do that?
(Message edited by Galien On 11/10/2009 03:01:57)
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I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day. So there.
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brolga
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153#
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Registered:12/09/2009
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Re:Salvation according to Luke
(Date Posted:11/10/2009 02:12:52)
worship?worship?worship? Paul in his letter to those in Rome who is loved by God and called to be saints; “I appeal to you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual act of worship.”
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'It is for God above all things that we are born, and not for ourselves.' (Calvin)
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Galien
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154#
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Rank:Poster Venti II
Score:8650
Posts:425
Registered:17/01/2005
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RE:Salvation according to Luke
(Date Posted:11/10/2009 03:05:21)
worship?worship?worship?
Paul in his letter to those in Rome who is loved by God and called to be saints;
“I appeal to you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual act of worship.”
We all present our bodies as a living sacrifice which is our spiritual act of worship. Does this mean we are not ALLOWED to worship God in singing, in collective prayer that may or may not include song, in dancing, whatever? Should we be afraid to do anything that is not mentioned in the bible?
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I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day. So there.
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Talmid
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155#
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Rank:Regular Member
Score:4190
Posts:205
Registered:21/04/2008
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Reply to Galien
(Date Posted:11/10/2009 14:03:25)
Galien
The point is that the sentence I quoted at the start has priorities back to front from a Christian pov. To rephrase a principle that has been brought out before, Christian worship is on *God's* terms.
Which means what, exactly?
Have another look at the 2nd para in post 136# (and various copies of the post). I don't think I can be much clearer than that. Maybe chat it over with your Christian friends if it's still unclear.
Yes I got that. But do you really think God cares if one twirls ribbons, plays trumpets, beats on drums or stands still as a statue when they worship? Is there ANYTHING God doesn't go over with a fine tooth comb to assess its "rightness" or is it just othodox christians who do that?
Cool. I'm sure then that you can get what "I think" from my comments about what you referred to as "cultural issues".
(Message edited by Talmid On 11/10/2009 16:52:51)
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There are 10 kinds of people in the world: those who understand binary and those who don't.
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Metanoian
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156#
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Registered:13/06/2009
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Reply To brolga
(Date Posted:11/10/2009 15:06:44)
Reply to brolga worship?worship?worship? Paul in his letter to those in Rome who is loved by God and called to be saints; “I appeal to you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual act of worship.”
m.
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brolga
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157#
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Registered:12/09/2009
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Re:Salvation according to Luke
(Date Posted:11/10/2009 15:43:57)
Eric,
Don't forget the context of the passage .. .. .. ..
Which IS?
Ralph
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'It is for God above all things that we are born, and not for ourselves.' (Calvin)
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Metanoian
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158#
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Registered:13/06/2009
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Reply To brolga
(Date Posted:11/10/2009 16:39:32)
Reply to brolga
Eric,
Don't forget the context of the passage .. .. .. ..
Which IS?
Ralph
Brolga don't fall into the trap of prooftexting. Paul's statements in Romans 12, verses 1 and 2 have a far greater horizon in meaning then what is initially realized. I would commend to you this incredible piece of work
 From pages 424 to 438, Barth discusses the "The Great Disturbance - The Problem of Ethics - xii 1,2" " our conversation is about men living in the world of nature and of civilization; and, moreover, we ourselves are also men living of necessity from minute to minute a quite concrete life ." I would suggest to you Brolga that these verses indeed apply to exploring every aspect of our human existence and experience that we live in our whole of life journey as a Child of God.
blessings
M
(Message edited by Metanoian On 11/10/2009 16:55:41)
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Galien
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159#
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Rank:Poster Venti II
Score:8650
Posts:425
Registered:17/01/2005
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RE:Salvation according to Luke
(Date Posted:11/10/2009 17:50:30)
Meta,
our conversation is about men living in the world of nature and of civilization; and, moreover, we ourselves are also men living of necessity from minute to minute a quite concrete life ."
I would suggest to you Brolga that these verses indeed apply to exploring every aspect of our human existence and experience that we live in our whole of life journey as a Child of God.
Amen to that!
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I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day. So there.
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brolga
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160#
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Registered:12/09/2009
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Re:Salvation according to Luke
(Date Posted:11/10/2009 18:19:56)
Eric,
Don't forget the context of the passage .. .. .. ..
ahh - hermeneutics - an art and a science together .. but hermeneutics is the art of the science of Biblical interpretation .. .. .. .. .. .. ..
I think you will find I am presenting correctly that particular text in light of the context.
our conversation is about men living in the world of nature and of civilization; and, moreover, we ourselves are also men living of necessity from minute to minute a quite concrete life ."
Conversing about the things about God is more to the point in my life.
I would suggest to you Brolga that these verses indeed apply to exploring every aspect of our human existence and experience that we live in our whole of life journey as a Child of God.
I would rather explore every aspect of God's existence not man’s
But I will aguire the book
(Message edited by brolga On 11/10/2009 20:32:49)
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'It is for God above all things that we are born, and not for ourselves.' (Calvin)
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Didaktikon
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161#
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Rank:Old Forum Fogey
Score:31540
Posts:1514
Registered:29/08/2007
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Reply To brolga
(Date Posted:11/10/2009 19:17:42)
Ralph,
Save your money. There are better (and cheaper) commentaries on Romans than that by Barth. I'd suggest that you start with the $20.00 IVP NTC by Grant Osborne.
Blessings,
Ian
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Vivos voco, mortuos plango
website: www.pleaseconsider.info email: didaktikon@gmail.com
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Didaktikon
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162#
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Rank:Old Forum Fogey
Score:31540
Posts:1514
Registered:29/08/2007
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Reply To Metanoian
(Date Posted:11/10/2009 19:23:24)
Eric,
Too many of your comments present as being overly 'cryptic', and it doesn't really help the average person here when you start referring them to commentaries or grammars that they're simply not going to possess or have access to. Better to speak plainly and quote what you think is relevant from the applicable sources.
Blessings, dude.
Ian
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Vivos voco, mortuos plango
website: www.pleaseconsider.info email: didaktikon@gmail.com
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Metanoian
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163#
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Registered:13/06/2009
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Reply To brolga
(Date Posted:12/10/2009 17:13:41)
Reply to brolga
I would rather explore every aspect of God's existence not man’s
But I will aguire the book
Questions to ask when exploring context:
1) who is talking or making the address: Paul
2) who is the address being made TO. : " you Brothers" .... and so on 
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Metanoian
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164#
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Registered:13/06/2009
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Reply To Didaktikon
(Date Posted:12/10/2009 17:57:50)
Reply to Didaktikon
Eric,
Too many of your comments present as being overly 'cryptic', and it doesn't really help the average person here when you start referring them to commentaries or grammars that they're simply not going to possess or have access to. Better to speak plainly and quote what you think is relevant from the applicable sources.
Blessings, dude.
Ian
Ian, Brolga asked a question regarding context: "which is ?" and I simply replied with:
"I would suggest to you Brolga that these verses indeed
apply to exploring every aspect of our human existence and experience
that we live in our whole of life journey as a Child of God.
"
But if Brolga is going to get "up tight" rather than discuss as I was intending then I'll just ignore him in future.
blessings
.
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Talmid
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165#
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Rank:Regular Member
Score:4190
Posts:205
Registered:21/04/2008
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Reply to Metanoian
(Date Posted:12/10/2009 18:24:00)
Ian, Brolga asked a question regarding context: "which is ?" and I simply replied with:
"I would suggest to you Brolga that these verses indeed apply to exploring every aspect of our human existence and experience that we live in our whole of life journey as a Child of God."
Meta,
I normally stay out of these things but ...
IMO it stood out like the proverbial dog's hind leg that this point was *exactly* what Brolga was alluding to when he orignally quoted the verses from Ro 12. And of course that's precisely what he said in the 1st para of his reply to you in 160#.
But if Brolga is going to get "up tight" rather than discuss as I was intending then I'll just ignore him in future.
Mate ... in the spirit of iron sharpening iron ... this (IMO) makes you look like a prat. Out of the abundance of the heart ...? I hope not. PS I'll delete this if you delete yours 
(Message edited by Talmid On 12/10/2009 18:29:37)
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There are 10 kinds of people in the world: those who understand binary and those who don't.
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Galien
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166#
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Rank:Poster Venti II
Score:8650
Posts:425
Registered:17/01/2005
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Re:Salvation according to Luke
(Date Posted:12/10/2009 19:04:57)
I get the feeling that there are some people who, after having left revival, are just too scared to seek out things for themselves in case they make ANOTHER mistake. Too afraid to have doubts, to decide for themselves what the bible means, have a literal belief of everything the bible says and are not comfortable unless they are christians in a very rigid system which relies on strict adherence to the established orthodox ways of doing christianity. If it isn't in the bible or the church fathers didnt say it or experience it or explain it, then it is of no value in the christian realm. They seem unwilling or unable to accept that as well as having a scriptural dimension, that a relationship with god also has an experiential dimension which is laughed to scorn as some kind of self indulgence. Many, many things about God and following him have been talked about and experienced since the reformation, but some people seem happy to remain there. Strange.
I guess I have trouble understanding why, after being part of a bible based cult, that ANYONE so involved would EVER take the position again of having THE truth, whereas all the other truths are false. After being part of this forum again for several months, and having a jolly good look at orthodox, evangelical, post evangelical, fundamentalist and pentecostal views of christianity, all I am left thinking is this - why do people who name themselves by the name of christ seem to spend more time arguing about who is right than they do about rejoicing in their similarities, and the fact they love god? Even though my idealistic little brain wants to believe otherwise, maybe human beings are just not able to get past the "who is right" thing, which is very sad. I sometimes wonder what god thinks sitting wherever he is watching us all throw ourselves around like we have all the answers, and we all claim to speak for him. I am sure we provide him with hours of amusement.
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I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day. So there.
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Groagan
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167#
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Registered:17/04/2009
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Re:Salvation according to Luke
(Date Posted:12/10/2009 19:20:52)
It is good to see the unity of the Spirit working amongst you guys.
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Galien
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168#
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Rank:Poster Venti II
Score:8650
Posts:425
Registered:17/01/2005
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RE:Salvation according to Luke
(Date Posted:12/10/2009 19:27:52)
Groagan,
Not confusing unity with uniformity I hope. Humans are diverse, and its actually okay to disagree, despite what revival taught us.
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I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day. So there.
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Didaktikon
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169#
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Rank:Old Forum Fogey
Score:31540
Posts:1514
Registered:29/08/2007
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Reply To Galien
(Date Posted:12/10/2009 19:40:42)
Galien,
I found your comments rather intriguing. You see, the facts of the matter seem to be quite different to the case that you've sought to present about all those supposedly "rigid" Christian people who have had the temerity to disagree with you. As just about every regular here has pointed out to you, time and again, the real issue is your point-blank refusal to obey God's Word. You've sought to redefine what it is to be "Christian", because you find the biblical model unpalatable.
Ian
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Vivos voco, mortuos plango
website: www.pleaseconsider.info email: didaktikon@gmail.com
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Didaktikon
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170#
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Rank:Old Forum Fogey
Score:31540
Posts:1514
Registered:29/08/2007
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Reply To Metanoian
(Date Posted:12/10/2009 19:44:32)
Hi, Eric.
Well, I think you'd be far better served by listening to the well-intended advice offered to you, than continuing to attempt to justify some rather silly behaviour and comments made inopportunely.
Blessings, dude.
Ian
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Vivos voco, mortuos plango
website: www.pleaseconsider.info email: didaktikon@gmail.com
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Didaktikon
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171#
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Rank:Old Forum Fogey
Score:31540
Posts:1514
Registered:29/08/2007
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Reply To Groagan
(Date Posted:12/10/2009 19:47:03)
Hi, "pooh-dude".
When you feel that you'd like to meet the Holy Spirit do let me know, and I'll make the necessary introductions 
Goose.
Ian
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Vivos voco, mortuos plango
website: www.pleaseconsider.info email: didaktikon@gmail.com
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Groagan
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173#
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Registered:17/04/2009
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Re:Salvation according to Luke
(Date Posted:12/10/2009 20:59:04)
Galien
Just a touch of sarcasm.I just thought the general love feast was turning a bit sour.
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Metanoian
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174#
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Registered:13/06/2009
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Reply To Didaktikon
(Date Posted:12/10/2009 21:32:55)
Reply to Didaktikon Hi, "pooh-dude".
When you feel that you'd like to meet the Holy Spirit do let me know, and I'll make the necessary introductions
Goose.
Ian
M
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Galien
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175#
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Rank:Poster Venti II
Score:8650
Posts:425
Registered:17/01/2005
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RE:Salvation according to Luke
(Date Posted:12/10/2009 22:21:22)
Meta,
Revelation (apokalupsis) comes only from the Godhead - see Luke 10:21 - 24... All you can do is point in the right direction - the rest is not up to you.. The rest remains with Him alone.
Apparently Ian has a backstage pass. He's special you know. 
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I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day. So there.
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brolga
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176#
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Registered:12/09/2009
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Re:Salvation according to Luke
(Date Posted:12/10/2009 23:15:37)
Whew, I feel responsible for causing such a rift in the camp.
Eric,
But if Brolga is going to get "up tight" rather than discuss as I was intending then I'll just ignore him in future
I'm sorry you feel this way and yes reflecting back on your comment I see now what you where referring to, my apologies. At times we get answers and comments contrary to what we want or think we know, but we need to ponder more the objective.
The verse from scripture I quoted was considered after carefully reading the texts in light of what the different forms the word "worship" means in NT accordingly, this verse seemed to cite up in context to that being discussed on how the Lord requires us to react to Him.
.
Ian, thank you for book recommendation.
Ralph
(Message edited by brolga On 14/10/2009 06:49:09)
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'It is for God above all things that we are born, and not for ourselves.' (Calvin)
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brolga
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177#
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Registered:12/09/2009
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Re:Salvation according to Luke
(Date Posted:13/10/2009 06:07:27)
Galien, I get the feeling that there are some people who, after having left revival, are just too scared to seek out things for themselves in case they make ANOTHER mistake. Too afraid to have doubts, to decide for themselves what the bible means, have a literal belief of everything the bible says and are not comfortable unless they are christians in a very rigid system which relies on strict adherence to the established orthodox ways of doing christianity. It seems to me that you are one of the very people you talk about here, except you are one that’s afraid to adhere to the established [and proven] orthodox ways of “doing Christianity”. Is that because you might be found wanting in your judgment of truth? If it isn't in the bible or the church fathers didnt say it or experience it or explain it, then it is of no value in the christian realm. They seem unwilling or unable to accept that as well as having a scriptural dimension, that a relationship with god also has an experiential dimension which is laughed to scorn as some kind of self indulgence. Many, many things about God and following him have been talked about and experienced since the reformation, but some people seem happy to remain there. Strange. Why do you think it “Strange”? What the church fathers did was to revive the very essence of Christianity. There is an experiential dimension to be had but it is not man’s way, it is according to the way God has revealed in his word as he requires it. I guess I have trouble understanding why, after being part of a bible based cult, that ANYONE so involved would EVER take the position again of having THE truth, whereas all the other truths are false.
What stunned me after I left Revival was that TRUTH came to the forefront as I explored and considered all that I received so far, be it from scriptures or whatever, that I was encouraged not to seek out in Revival. That which is hidden becomes abundantly clear; everything we were told about the “falsity” of other religions etc outside of Revival has turned back on them and is the very essence of what they are instead of. After being part of this forum again for several months, and having a jolly good look at orthodox, evangelical, post evangelical, fundamentalist and pentecostal views of christianity, all I am left thinking is this - why do people who name themselves by the name of christ seem to spend more time arguing about who is right than they do about rejoicing in their similarities, and the fact they love god? Even though my idealistic little brain wants to believe otherwise, maybe human beings are just not able to get past the "who is right" thing, which is very sad. I sometimes wonder what god thinks sitting wherever he is watching us all throw ourselves around like we have all the answers, and we all claim to speak for him. I am sure we provide him with hours of amusement. I don’t believe you really have had a “jolly good look.” What you need to do is base your judgment on what the Word says and it cannot come overnight, particularly when you do not let go of your past experiences and grievances. If you wonder what God thinks then let go of what YOU think and let God be true. I never once have known you back up, what you declare, from the bible.
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'It is for God above all things that we are born, and not for ourselves.' (Calvin)
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Didaktikon
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178#
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Rank:Old Forum Fogey
Score:31540
Posts:1514
Registered:29/08/2007
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Reply To Galien
(Date Posted:13/10/2009 14:56:00)
Galien,
Try reading my response again, and this time see if you can interpret it aright
Ian
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Vivos voco, mortuos plango
website: www.pleaseconsider.info email: didaktikon@gmail.com
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Galien
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179#
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Rank:Poster Venti II
Score:8650
Posts:425
Registered:17/01/2005
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RE:Salvation according to Luke
(Date Posted:13/10/2009 15:46:18)
Brolga,
I don’t believe you really have had a “jolly good look.”
You make that call because you seem to think if I did have a good look I woul dbe in some way impressed. I have, but I'nm not impressed. There are some of us who require a parental voice in our engagement with religious organisations, and those of us who find it offensive. If you want to be treated like a spiritual child forever, knock yourself out. I don't.
What you need to do is....
And there it is. The problem itself. When, in all the time I have been on this forum have I told you what you need to do? Difference between my kjind of christianity and yours is that you accept that you have all the answers and you have the right to impose them on others. I don't fell that need because I'm busy looking after my own backyard.
base your judgment on what the Word says and it cannot come overnight, particularly when you do not let go of your past experiences and grievances. If you wonder what God thinks then let go of what YOU think and let God be true. I never once have known you back up, what you declare, from the bible.
And there is the judgement part, based on the fact you know the entire contents of my heart and soul.
Judgement AND the magic words that will make my life complete. Congratulations. Ian would be proud.
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I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day. So there.
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brolga
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180#
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Registered:12/09/2009
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Re:Salvation according to Luke
(Date Posted:13/10/2009 16:27:49)
Galien,
Well, OK. Can't say we didn't try. Good luck.
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'It is for God above all things that we are born, and not for ourselves.' (Calvin)
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Galien
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181#
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Rank:Poster Venti II
Score:8650
Posts:425
Registered:17/01/2005
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RE:Salvation according to Luke
(Date Posted:13/10/2009 16:57:10)
Brolga,
Well, OK. Can't say we didn't try. Good luck.
Hehe. Don't believe in good luck brolga, only good management. Since my sin is covered by the blood of jesus, I'm not exactly sure what it is "we" tried to do, or more importantly why you thought you had to in the first place. Sometimes I feel so hammered by the "truth" you and your mate think you have that I get thrown back through time and I feel like im in a revival meeting again. I don't get why you can't see that your MO remains the same, only your "truth" has changed.
Try being a friend mate.
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I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day. So there.
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brolga
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182#
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Registered:12/09/2009
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Re:Salvation according to Luke
(Date Posted:13/10/2009 17:17:01)
Galien,
I have found some people wouldn't know a true friend if they tripped over them.
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'It is for God above all things that we are born, and not for ourselves.' (Calvin)
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Talmid
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183#
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Rank:Regular Member
Score:4190
Posts:205
Registered:21/04/2008
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Reply to Galien
(Date Posted:13/10/2009 17:17:49)
Hi Galien
In 179 you write
When, in all the time I have been on this forum have I told you what you need to do? Difference between my kjind of christianity and yours is that you accept that you have all the answers and you have the right to impose them on others. I don't fell that need because I'm busy looking after my own backyard.
Then in 181 you write
Try being a friend mate.
Isn't that hypocritical?
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There are 10 kinds of people in the world: those who understand binary and those who don't.
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brolga
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184#
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Registered:12/09/2009
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Re:Salvation according to Luke
(Date Posted:13/10/2009 17:31:24)
Ultimately, people who hog the last word consistently are people that strike me as very self-involved. Putting up with them takes more effort than I usually want to expend, which reminds me of Toby Keith's frustrated and funny song, "I Wanna Talk About Me!" These are some of the lyrics:
We talk about your work, how your boss is a jerk,
We talk about your church and your head when it hurts.
We talk about the troubles you've been having with your brother
'bout your daddy and your mother and your crazy ex-lover.
We talk about your friends and the places that you've been,
We talk about your skin and the dimples on your chin,
The polish on your toes and the run in your hose,
And God knows we're gonna talk about your clothes.
You know talking about you makes me smile, but every once in a while,
I wanna talk about me, I wanna talk about I
Wanna talk about number 1, oh my, me, my,
What I think, what I like, what I know, what I want, what I see.
I like talking about you, you, you, you usually, but occasionally
I wanna talk about me! (me, me, me,) I wanna talk about me-e-e. (me, me, me)
(Message edited by brolga On 13/10/2009 17:32:14)
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'It is for God above all things that we are born, and not for ourselves.' (Calvin)
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Galien
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185#
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Rank:Poster Venti II
Score:8650
Posts:425
Registered:17/01/2005
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RE:Salvation according to Luke
(Date Posted:13/10/2009 17:58:45)
Hi Talmid
In 179 you write
When, in all the time I have been on this forum have I told you what you need to do? Difference between my kjind of christianity and yours is that you accept that you have all the answers and you have the right to impose them on others. I don't fell that need because I'm busy looking after my own backyard.
Then in 181 you write
Try being a friend mate.
Isn't that hypocritical?
If you think being a friend means telling another person how to love their God, then I guess it is. What I am saying is that I don't need brolga or anyone else to tell me how to do that. I gave up the need to tell other adults what to do years ago. The only time that tends to rear its ugly head is when a bully is around. Then I tend to tell them to stop.
I think being a friend is supporting others in their decisions, including the way they choose to perceive god, not imposing the way I do things upon them. If Brolga chooses not to share the depths of his heart, but instead recites rote bible stuff to me I learned in Year 4 well thats fine. I would prefer to hear how he feels, but he isn't into sharing that, except when it comes to telling me how self involved I am.
In a conversation, if one person is approaching the bible like it is an objective truth, and the other one isn't, there will always be a problem. I love my god with all my heart soul mind and strength, but I am also willing to admit that everything I beleive may be an illusion. If it is, I don't really care. Most christians prefer to believe that the bible is set in stone, completely infallible and objective. To me, any kind of belief system cannot be anything other than completely subjective.
The world is unsure and uncertain, there seems to be very little control of any kind in the world and very little security in anything. If the bible helps some people to have a sense of security and stability, fine. I love god, but without the magical thinking.
I would be the first person to admit I could care less about social conventions, or the middle class value system that poses as christianity.
But I do care about people, how they feel and what they think.
(Message edited by Galien On 13/10/2009 19:21:46)
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I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day. So there.
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Galien
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186#
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Rank:Poster Venti II
Score:8650
Posts:425
Registered:17/01/2005
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RE:Salvation according to Luke
(Date Posted:13/10/2009 18:11:48)
Brolga,
Ultimately, people who hog the last word consistently are people that strike me as very self-involved.
Really brolga, what a mean thing to say about Ian.
Putting up with them takes more effort than I usually want to expend
And how is that comment NOT self involved?
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I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day. So there.
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Talmid
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187#
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Rank:Regular Member
Score:4190
Posts:205
Registered:21/04/2008
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Reply to Galien
(Date Posted:13/10/2009 21:12:12)
Galien
So you don't dispute that it was "hypocritical" that in 179 you said you don't tell people what they need to do, then in 181 you proceeded to tell someone what he ought to do?
My world view doesn't preclude me from giving advice, so I'll point out that your 3rd and 4th paras indicate that your religion varies from the Christianity in the bible, given eg its record of Jesus' attitude to scripture.
Personally, it's because I love God - and the people he created - that I check my "personal revelations" against the record of what he has revealed in the past - the bible.
Frankly, it's your belief that "belief systems cannot be other than completely subjective" that is the current, troublesome, Australian middle class value system.
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There are 10 kinds of people in the world: those who understand binary and those who don't.
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Galien
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188#
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Rank:Poster Venti II
Score:8650
Posts:425
Registered:17/01/2005
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RE:Salvation according to Luke
(Date Posted:13/10/2009 21:34:57)
Talmid,
So you don't dispute that it was "hypocritical" that in 179 you said you don't tell people what they need to do, then in 181 you proceeded to tell someone what he ought to do?
I suggested he may wish to try treating me like a friend instead of giving me unsolicited advice on things I already know about. If you think that makes me a hypocrite, that's up to you. I never tried to tgell brolga how to work out his own salvation.
My world view doesn't preclude me from giving advice, so I'll point out that your 3rd and 4th paras indicate that your religion varies from the Christianity in the bible, given eg its record of Jesus' attitude to scripture.
Well that would be because it was Jesus' view. I'm sure he was able to prove a lot of things that I am not able to prove, being the word made flesh and all that. And I don't have a "religion".
Personally, it's because I love God - and the people he created - that I check my "personal revelations" against the record of what he has revealed in the past - the bible.
Cool. I'm not claiming any "personal revelations" Talmid.
Frankly, it's your belief that "belief systems cannot be other than completely subjective" that is the current, troublesome, Australian middle class value system.
Well never having been part of the Australian middle class, I will have to take your word for that. To me its about taking a position of saying - this what i believe, but i cant prove it, and being comfortable with that. thats why it is called faith. I think its hilarious christians not being honest enough to say the same, but acting as thought the existence of god is proveable, when we all know it isn't.
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I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day. So there.
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Talmid
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189#
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Rank:Regular Member
Score:4190
Posts:205
Registered:21/04/2008
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Reply to Galien
(Date Posted:13/10/2009 22:11:12)
Galien
The hypocrisy is that you said you don't tell people what they need to do yet you have no qualms giving such advice.
"Your religon" = "the religon you follow"
Of course you have personal revelations. You say that what's been revealed to you about Christianity differs from what has been revealed to orthodox Christians.
You were the one who used the line "the middle class value system that poses as christianity". Now you make no claim to know what "the middle class value system" is?
You wrote *completely* subjective; nothing about apologetics.
(Message edited by Talmid On 13/10/2009 22:13:44)
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There are 10 kinds of people in the world: those who understand binary and those who don't.
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Galien
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190#
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Rank:Poster Venti II
Score:8650
Posts:425
Registered:17/01/2005
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RE:Salvation according to Luke
(Date Posted:13/10/2009 22:48:32)
Talmid.
The hypocrisy is that you said you don't tell people what they need to do yet you have no qualms giving such advice.
If you say so. I made a suggestion to brolga on how to deal with me. I did NOT tell him how to be a christian.
"Your religon" = "the religon you follow"
I know what religion is Talmid.
Of course you have personal revelations. You say that what's been revealed to you about Christianity differs from what has been revealed to orthodox Christians.
Hehe, so I am the only person who thinks there is more to christianity than reciting scripture ad nauseum? I'd hardly call that a person revelation.
You were the one who used the line "the middle class value system that poses as christianity". Now you make no claim to know what "the middle class value system" is?
I do know what it is, what I said was that I was not part of the middle class.
You wrote *completely* subjective; nothing about apologetics.
Oh the evil of it all! A subjective opinion regarding the things of God! I'm not really interested in apologetics. Just more silly humans running around trying to prove something only the heart can know.
Why people try to take the beauty of holiness and turn it into something about as interesting as week old toast i will never understand.
(Message edited by Galien On 13/10/2009 22:51:13)
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I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day. So there.
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brolga
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191#
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Registered:12/09/2009
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Re:Salvation according to Luke
(Date Posted:13/10/2009 23:10:24)
Galien,
If you say so. I made a suggestion to brolga on how to deal with me. I did NOT tell him how to be a christian.
Sorry, but I'm not going to "tickle your ears" and stand by if I believe you or anyone else is heading in the wrong direction thinking they are Christian and they are not. But I'm now fully convinced it is no point in discussing "the way" with you any longer at this stage as you have made up your mind never to be persuaded by any one to change your way thinking, no not even the Lord.
Straight and narrow is the way, broad is the pathway to destruction. (oops, prooftexting)
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'It is for God above all things that we are born, and not for ourselves.' (Calvin)
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Galien
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192#
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Rank:Poster Venti II
Score:8650
Posts:425
Registered:17/01/2005
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RE:Salvation according to Luke
(Date Posted:13/10/2009 23:24:38)
Brolga,
If you say so. I made a suggestion to brolga on how to deal with me. I did NOT tell him how to be a christian.
Sorry, but I'm not going to "tickle your ears" and stand by if I believe you or anyone else is heading in the wrong direction thinking they are Christian and they are not. But I'm now fully convinced it is no point in discussing "the way" with you any longer at this stage as you have made up your mind never to be persuaded by any one to change your way thinking, no not even the Lord.
Straight and narrow is the way, broad is the pathway to destruction. (oops, prooftexting)
Must be a lot of that ear tickling going on in your parts, you mention it a lot. Once again, I reiterate that I never asked you to point me in the right direction. Can you relate to others outside that Ralph? Ever wonder why I don't need to change your way of thinking?
(Message edited by Galien On 13/10/2009 23:45:21)
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I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day. So there.
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Talmid
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193#
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Rank:Regular Member
Score:4190
Posts:205
Registered:21/04/2008
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Reply to Galien
(Date Posted:14/10/2009 00:21:24)
Galien,
OK So you weren't telling Brolga how to be a Xian.
You spoke of "the middle class value system that poses as christianity" (#185), then said you would have to "take my word" for what "the middle class value system" is (#188), and now you know what it is (#190).
Your original comment was that "belief systems cannot be other than completely subjective". I questioned that. "A subjective opinion regarding the things of God" is something you just introduced. You introduced apologetics in #188; I simply pointed out that it was not part of the original post that I was commenting on.
Personally, God's holiness is one of the main reasons that I endeavour to heed his inscripturated word.
(Message edited by Talmid On 14/10/2009 00:25:03)
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There are 10 kinds of people in the world: those who understand binary and those who don't.
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brolga
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194#
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Registered:12/09/2009
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Re:Salvation according to Luke
(Date Posted:14/10/2009 01:02:00)
Talmid,
Thanks for expanding on comments I don't find the time or the words for.
As for trying to give the right advice to Galien in the interest of eternal matters, well she just doesn't want to know about it, or she thinks she knows it all, why bother. Hopefully others may see the positive come out of it all, which is something I suppose.
(Message edited by brolga On 14/10/2009 01:04:09)
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'It is for God above all things that we are born, and not for ourselves.' (Calvin)
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Galien
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195#
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Rank:Poster Venti II
Score:8650
Posts:425
Registered:17/01/2005
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RE:Salvation according to Luke
(Date Posted:14/10/2009 01:45:09)
Then STOP giving me advice. I don't recall asking for any. GRRRRR
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I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day. So there.
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Galien
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196#
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Rank:Poster Venti II
Score:8650
Posts:425
Registered:17/01/2005
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Re:Salvation according to Luke
(Date Posted:14/10/2009 01:47:29)
Talmid,
Personally, God's holiness is one of the main reasons that I endeavour to heed his inscripturated word.
Excellent.
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I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day. So there.
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Didaktikon
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197#
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Rank:Old Forum Fogey
Score:31540
Posts:1514
Registered:29/08/2007
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Reply To Talmid
(Date Posted:14/10/2009 02:13:01)
Talmid,
Seriously bloke, were you really expecting her responses to be (a) logical, (b) internally consistent, and (c) objective?! 
Blessings,
Ian
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Vivos voco, mortuos plango
website: www.pleaseconsider.info email: didaktikon@gmail.com
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Galien
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198#
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Rank:Poster Venti II
Score:8650
Posts:425
Registered:17/01/2005
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RE:Salvation according to Luke
(Date Posted:14/10/2009 04:39:20)
Ian,
Seriously bloke, were you really expecting her responses to be (a) logical, (b) internally consistent, and (c) objective?!
About as likely as your responses are to be kind, caring or heartfelt.
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I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day. So there.
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brolga
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199#
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Registered:12/09/2009
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Re:Salvation according to Luke
(Date Posted:14/10/2009 04:50:24)
Galien,
"WHATEVER"
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'It is for God above all things that we are born, and not for ourselves.' (Calvin)
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Galien
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200#
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Rank:Poster Venti II
Score:8650
Posts:425
Registered:17/01/2005
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RE:Salvation according to Luke
(Date Posted:14/10/2009 05:57:45)
Brolga,Galien, "WHATEVER" That's priceless. There is a real ralph in there after all. Woohoo  
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I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day. So there.
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