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Title: Noel is not the Lord's Annointed
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Brett_w
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Registered: 18/01/2009

(Date Posted:24/02/2009 02:23:08)

Hello again to all the GRC members logging on.

As I said in a previous post, if you know the group you're in has really gone wrong, taken a wrong turn, you may be thinking to yourself that if you just hang in there and try to ignore the unbiblical practices and ideas around you, that God will do something, so you won't have to.

I hope you can see that that thinking is a real cop out.
As a follower of Christ (I trust that that is what you still want to be)you are supposed to stand for the truth, and that does not mean that when you know your church and your leaders have really and truly gone wrong, that you remain silent and do nothing, justifying your silence by saying it's all up to God.
 
 But I've learnt that some of you are justifying your inaction because of the way you understand a certain scripture, and of course Noel has taught you to understand that scripture in such a way so that he can lord it over you.
The scripture is about where King David was being oppressed unjustly by King Saul, and David wouldn't do anything against Saul because it would be wrong to "touch the Lord's annointed". Noel has made you think that that passage means that if your God given leader, or pastor of your church, goes wrong,then you musn't resist him, fight him, or confront him.

So you're thinking that just as David wouldn't openly fight against and overthrow Saul, so it would be wrong for you to openly confront Noel and others.Just like David did regarding Saul,you musn't "touch or smite the Lord's annointed", but like him, wait for God himself to do something.

David had the chance to kill Saul, but didn't, because he was the Lord's annointed.

 Can you really apply that to yourself and Noel or Tony Addison?

( I don't mean literally kill Noel of course,but as Noel himself has put it, it means you shouldn't rise up and challenge your pastor).
 
David wouldn't harm Saul, because he was the Lord's annointed,meaning that he was the legally appointed King over the nation.He was the lawfully authorised political leader of his nation. David was not going to be involved in political assination, he was not willing to overthrow the lawful government through armed revolt and murder.
 
As far as the people of the nation of Israel were concerned,Saul was their rightful and lawful King, and if David had killed him and violently replaced his government with his own, the people would not have accepted it.
 
There's a big difference between a King of the ancient nation of Israel and a pastor of a Christian church. Or there should be.
 
You are not to regard Noel as a King over Israel!!!!!

He's not a King over you, as Saul was over Israel,

The New Teatament tells you that a church leader is not allowed to act like a King over the church. He's not to "lord it over"you, he's not to have unquestioned authority over you.

 The passage about Saul and David is about KINGS, not about pastors of the church.
 
Noel has twisted that passage so he can have unquestionable authority over you, just like a King, and if you honestly think he is wrong in the way he acts or speaks, and try to tell him so, or others, he will point to scriptures in the N.T about murmuring and complaining, and silence you.

Well, he is also using those verses about murmuring in a wrong way, out of context, because if you honestly believe that your church leader is seriously going wrong, the N.T indicates that you CAN confront and challenge him about it.
 
Go to Acts 11 verses 2 and 3.Peter had been led by God to enter the house of a non Jew, Cornelius.It was believed among Jews at this time, that they should not be friendly with pagan Gentiles, with all their idolatry and paganism, so entering the house of a pagan,and sitting down for a meal with him was considered unlawful.
 
Apparently, many in the church at this time(the entire church was made up of Jews)believed that,so when they heard that Peter had done that,not knowing that he had been led by God to do it,they thought that he'd really done something very wrong.

When Peter came to a meeting of the church it says "those of the circumcision contended with him". Take note of that.It wasn't just the other Apostles who "contended" with him, it was the Jewish members of the church, so called "laity",the people of the church, the members.
 
In the church of the Bible, if "ordinary"members thought that an Apostle had done wrong,they had the freedom to confront and challenge him.

Notice Peter's reaction to their criticism, he didn't tell them to shut up and how dare they tell him he had done wrong,he didn't rebuke them for murmuring and complaining and causing division and trouble in the church, no, "But Peter explained it to them...".

He patiently addressed their concerns.
 
Even an Apostle, personally chosen and taught by Christ himself, can be confronted and criticised by the members of the church, if they think he has done wrong.
 
You know you can't do that with Noel, but the big question is WHY CAN'T YOU DO IT? Who says you can't do it?
  

The New Testament says you can.
Look at Galatians 2.Paul saw influential men in the church going wrong, how did he react? Verse 5 "To whom we did not yield submission even for an hour...".

Paul could see that if those men had their way, the blessing and freedom of the Gospel would be destroyed in the church, so he just wouldn't go along with them, even for one hour.
 
Noel has destroyed the freedom and blessing of the Gospel in your group, you know that, but how long have you continued to submit to him?
  
One day? Two years? Eight years? A lot longer than one hour!!

Noel does not run his group like the "church of the Bible".

He has made you all regard him as a King ruling over you.
 
It truly is  shameful and degrading, that you continue to submit to such a man, when you know how wrong he is, it is personally degrading for you, to have to act like a servant towards a despotic King, who can't be questioned.
 
How do you do it?

How do you live with your conscience?

Why do you remain silent before such an arrogant man?

Aimoo Team



Re:Noel is not the Lord's Annointed
(Date Posted:26/02/2009 22:02:55)

This message has been deleted due to Termination of Account.
david_wang
2# 



Registered:02/06/2009

Re:Noel is not the Lord's Annointed
(Date Posted:03/06/2009 15:51:24)

"Heart of Fire" Extract

by Barry Chant 

In 1958, the Christian Revival Crusade (then known as the Commonwealth Revival Crusade) was being led in Melbourne by Lloyd Longfield and in Geelong, Noel Hollins.  Longfield was of medium build, with a smooth and pleasant speaking voice, and a persuasive manner.  He had been a travelling salesman, a staff sergeant in the A.I.F. for six years during the Second World War and a delicatessen proprietor for three years.  His war experience in the Middle East gave him an interest in Bible Prophecy and he was thus an early convert of the C.R.C. in Melbourne, where Bible prophecy was being strongly taught.  He had been quickly recognised as a man of great promise, and had been used with some effectiveness in both preaching and healing ministry.  In 1952, he had become pastor of the assembly.

Numbers began to grow under his positive preaching.  His manner was such that even those who disagreed with him found him to be an interesting — even entertaining — speaker.  There seemed to be an underlying sense of the humorous when he spoke — the twinkle in his eye and the inflection of his voice suggesting that there was another side to what he said, which he was not willing to declare openly.

Noel Hollins was a tall young man, well over six feet.  His preaching voice was strong and his methods direct.  He spoke simply and to the point, and with a seriousness of purpose that reflected an intensity of character.  At his conversion, he had abandoned a university course, and devoted his future entirely to the Lord's work.  A bachelor for many years, he was regarded as a prime goal by many of the female members!  Neither Longfield nor Hollins had any previous experience of Pentecostalism, or of serious Christianity of any kind, for that matter.  Their Christian experience began with their conversion; they had never known any committed Christians beyond the Crusade.  This fact explains in a small way some of the subsequent events.

From about 1955 onwards, tensions began to develop between assemblies in Melbourne and Geelong and Adelaide.  Initially, the rivalry was friendly.  Attendance figures were compared, and both Adelaide and Geelong, for example, were running about level with congregations numbering about 300.  Geelong opened its own hall in December, 1957 — a converted nissan hut of unusual but attractive design.  The next year, 1958, Adelaide purchased its first hall.  Longfield meanwhile, had purchased a tent and conducted evangelistic campaigns in Geelong and Brisbane.

Such mutual challenging was healthy.  But it also opened the doors for criticism.  Longfield visited Adelaide, and was rather distressed by what he regarded as extreme methods of exorcism.  He also felt that the South Australian brethren were not firm enough in their understanding and proclamation of the baptism in the Spirit.  So he and Hollins drew up what they claimed was a statement of faith for the Victorian assemblies in which they declared that salvation was the result of repentance and faith, but that if a believer then refused to be baptised either in water or the Spirit, he would forfeit that salvation.  Similarly, a breaking of fellowship with the assembly could result in forfeited salvation.

When the rest of the Crusade pastors got together to draw up a constitution, Longfield and Hollins refused to co-operate in such a move — to do so would be to abandon their "liberty" and autonomy as local churches.

Finally, there was some dissension in Melbourne because Longfield gave little scope for his officers to share in the financial management of the work.  He believed that as pastor he had the right to make decisions about handling of funds without having to consult others.  Although he did appoint a business council he still made independent decisions — decisions which many found unacceptable.

At this stage, the Crusade work in Australia was relatively small.  With three dominant personalities such as Longfield, Hollins and Harris, it was inevitable that unless tolerance was practised, clashes would occur.  Harris and Adelaide business man Don Barrett journeyed to Victoria to try to resolve things, but found that there was nothing that could be done, and so when in November 1958, the rest of the C.R.C. assemblies drew up a constitution, the two Victorian works disassociated themselves and became the Melbourne Revival Centre, and the Geelong Revival Centre, respectively.  Some other assemblies joined with them — mainly ones like Canberra (A.C.T.) and Port Lincoln (S.A.) which had been started as a direct outreach of the Melbourne and Geelong works by the roaming preacher named Len Day — a happy-go-lucky fellow who flew a small plane all over the country and treated all he met as long-lost friends.

Most remained loyal to the original Crusade movement, with small groups in Geelong and Melbourne refusing to follow their pastors' lead, and maintaining affiliation with the Crusade.

Since that time, the doctrinal position of the Revival Centres has become quite clear.  Without any compromise they openly declare that baptism in water and in the Holy Spirit are necessary for salvation.  Longfield once said.  "Jesus is coming again for those who pray in the Spirit, who are sealed by the Spirit." And again, "If they received the Spirit they haven't any life in them and are dead in trespasses and sins".

In a leaflet entitled "What must I do to be saved?" Longfield writes: "If we really believe Him, we obey Him.  We believe He is alive and that He has given to us the path of salvation.  We accept gladly the pattern of repentance, of water baptism and the promised power of the Holy Spirit.  Our obedience indicates that we 'rely' on Him, we 'trust' Him to save us from sin and to fill us with the Holy Spirit.  Such believing will bring the power of God into our lives."

The wording of this passage is careful.  But the meaning is clear.  Without baptism by immersion or the baptism in the Spirit, there is no real believing, and hence, no real salvation.  The following quotation makes the matter perfectly plain:

"Any Greek concordance will assure us that to believe (pisteuo) is to 'adhere to,' 'trust' or 'rely on.' In short, to believe embraces placing oneself in the hands of God.  To believe the Gospel is to accept the fact that it will be by obeying the commands we are now considering that our salvation will be effected ..."

This then is the distinguishing mark between the Revival Centres and most other Pentecostal groups in Australia.  Whereas the others teach both baptism in water and the baptism in the Spirit, they still agree that there is only one absolute essential for salvation, and that is trust in Jesus Christ himself alone for righteousness and freedom from sin.  The doctrines which separate these groups are important to them, but they have never been made pre-requisites for salvation.  Thus, on occasion, almost every Pentecostal church in this country has co-operated with churches of another Pentecostal denomination in some kind of joint venture.  In some states, all Pentecostal pastors meet regularly for fellowship together.  But the Revival Centres will never be — indeed, can never be — a part of this, for their whole concept of redemption sets them apart.

The Revival Centre doctrine of salvation results in other kinds of exclusivism.  Non-Pentecostal churches are fiercely criticised.  So Longfield writes:

"What Gospel?  A Gospel that will bring people to believe, to be baptised, to speak in tongues, to work miracles?  Or another Gospel?  A Gospel described in both Old and New Testaments as one of Holy Ghost fire and power, or the insipid apology for a so-called Gospel the professing church has foisted on the unwary today?"

In his preaching, he often challenges the congregation to prove that God is real.  What happens in the churches they come from?  What evidence do they have that God is alive?  In the Revival Crusade there is evidence of the reality of God.  People are healed and baptised in the Spirit.  Signs indicate God's power.

On one occasion he challenged:

"I meet a lot of people who say they are saved but who have never had a phenomenal experience.  The gospel should startle.  Tell me why people jump out of the baptistry here like a startled antelope shouting, 'Who electrified the water?'"

Longfield and his fellow-pastors find it necessary also to condemn the Pentecostal churches for compromise.  When Pentecostals associate with functions like the Billy Graham Crusades, they are supporting a watered-down form of the Gospel.

Pentecostals, on the other hand, feel that such criticism falls strangely from men who use a hymn-book in which there are more hymns by non-Pentecostals than anyone else!  And who use translations of the Bible (the Amplified Bible is popular) which were produced by (un-saved) non-Pentecostals!

A final by-product of the extremist doctrine is a rigid control over church members.  Most Pentecostals teach the importance of divinely-called leadership.  The offices of pastor, evangelist and teacher are seen as the result of divine calling rather than human choosing or training.  Thus, such ministries ought to be respected.  The Revival Centres, however, emphasise this more strongly yet.  For example,

"So many today are roaming around from one church to another.  They believe this to be the 'liberty' of the Lord.  It is not.  It is a form of lawless independence.  This is usually because they are not amenable to any type of oversight or correction ..."

This principle is agreed to by most Pentecostals.  But it is not normally applied with the same strength.  In practice, when people visit a Revival Centre, they are asked where they come from and what their intentions are.  If they belong to another Pentecostal church they are told clearly that they should either go back there or move in totally with the Centre.  Casual visitors are not sought.  Unbelievers who attend are, of course, encouraged to join the group.

On the positive side, this same attitude produces a movement of confident, forthright, fiercely loyal people.  There is no room for compromise.  You either accept everything that is taught or you leave.  Many do, in fact, leave.  But hundreds of others stay and fully endorse what is said and done.

The preaching is vigorous and clear.  Hearers are left in no doubt of what they must do.  There is no middle ground.

Revival Centre meetings are lively and positive.  There is a straight-forward hard-hitting quality about them.  As may be imagined, there is little sentiment or soft-pedalling.  The singing is enthusiastic, the praise fervent, the preaching forthright, and the expectancy high.  Some Pentecostal services give the sense of joyful spontaniety or of family fellowship; these qualities can be found in Revival Centres, too, but with them, there is also a sense of militancy.  These people are more like an army than a club.

The Melbourne Revival Centre has been frequently in the news.  In March, 1966, they paid over $90,000 for a property in Harcourt Street, Auburn.  This included one and a half acres of land and a seventeen-roomed house which had formerly been inhabited by the Lord Mayor of Melbourne.  Nearby residents feared that the building of a hall on the property would spoil the previously quiet character of the area, and their protests made newspaper headlines both in Victoria and interstate.

Ultimately, permission to build the hall was refused, but the residence was kept as a manse for Pastor Longfield.  The assembly purchased the old Rialto Theatre in Kew where crowds of up to 800 have met for special meetings.  Normally about 500 attend.

In 1970, the Revival Centres again made the news when the Melbourne Truth launched vigorous attacks against them.  The Christian Revival Crusade and other Pentecostals were also included in a series of articles which "exposed" many things that never happened in the first place.  There is no evidence that any serious effect resulted from this: Longfield's meetings probably grew.  He is the kind of man to revel in any publicity, good or bad.

Hollins' assembly in Geelong eventually broke up.  The majority of the congregation ultimately turned against him, and claimed the hall.  This congregation applied for re-admittance to the Christian Revival Crusade, which was granted.  Hollins began again, and fairly soon built up another strong assembly at Norlane, a Geelong suburb.  In 1972, there was a further disagreement between Hollins and Longfield.  At the time of writing, they were out of fellowship with each other.

In 1969, there were 14 Revival Centres in various parts of Australia, six of them in Victoria, the rest mainly in capital cities elsewhere.

Another feature of this ministry has been its radio voice.  For years, Longfield has broadcast every Sunday over a number of stations.  And on air as in pulpit, he lampoons the churches and proclaims his forthright, uncompromising message.

Each year, a camp is held.  The location has varied from year to year according to the availability of camp sites.  Recently, no camp site being available, the people simply booked out normal public caravan parks along a Victorian coast.  Each family provides its own tent or caravan and attends to its own cooking.  Combined rallies are held in the evenings.  Up to 1OOO people have attended such events.  Evening rallies have been effective in winning converts, who are usually baptised in the sea as soon as possible.

A periodical called the Voice of Revival is published.  Although dated, individual issues are devoted to particular themes — Bible Prophecy, the baptism in the Spirit, divine healing.  So they remain in stock for people seeking help on these subjects.  Few photos appear; articles are often anonymous, or at most, initialled; the magazine is brief, normally of about twelve pages.  True to the traditions of the Crusade from which it originated, the Voice of Revival is labelled as "proclaiming the gospel of salvation to the individual, the church and the nation."  Thus, the original vision for national revival is still there.

Early in Longfield's ministry, he was campaigning in Geelong.  A man came to the service one day who was well-known for his divisionary spirit.  He had caused trouble in other places by showing disloyalty among members of various Pentecostal churches.  Longfield politely asked him not to come again.  But next Sunday, he was again present.

Standing at the door was a new convert named Jack Clay.  An ex-sailor, he was muscular and strong.  He had just been healed by the power of God from an incurable disease for which medicine had been of no avail.  He looked at this man, and began to speak to him.  "Didn't Mr, Longfield ask you not to come here again?"  Then he grasped the man by the scruff of the neck and the seat of his trousers and bodily lifted him into the air.  He continued:

"Mr. Longfield is a gentleman.  I'm not.  If I see you here again, I'll pick you up, carry you outside and throw you over the fence."

With that, he put the man down.  He was never seen at these meetings again!

Jack Clay later became a prominent preacher in the Revival Centres.  With time, came also maturity, but nevertheless, this anecdote clearly reveals the enthusiasm and vigour that Longfield's ministry promotes.

Not everyone can agree with him — indeed many are repelled.  But none can deny that he knows what he wants and is determined to get it!

david_wang
3# 



Registered:02/06/2009

Re:Noel is not the Lord's Annointed
(Date Posted:03/06/2009 17:40:26)

In the article above,  it seems the Assembly and the Pastor are not as bad as some threads said

ladeedaa
4# 



Registered:10/07/2009

Re:Noel is not the Lord's Annointed
(Date Posted:24/08/2009 01:29:40)

Did i ever mention the time ted owen said he was God?
prezy
5# 



Rank:Regular User

Score:2650
Posts:125
Registered:06/02/2007

Reply To ladeedaa
(Date Posted:24/08/2009 01:41:47)

Reply to ladeedaa

Did i ever mention the time ted owen said he was God?


Bet Noel put him straight. Thats Noels claim? I remember watching noel with his arms raised saying"I am the reserection, I am the  life" and me thinking no your not!

--------------------------------------------------------------
I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person........

ladeedaa
6# 



Registered:10/07/2009

Re:Noel is not the Lord's Annointed
(Date Posted:24/08/2009 01:51:38)

 i was so amazed i didnt know what to think! The whole meeting was stunned. well at least the smart ones were. I hope.
enrique123
7# 



Registered:10/09/2009

Re:Noel is not the Lord's Annointed
(Date Posted:10/09/2009 05:02:07)

 Reading the topics on this forum makes me extremely sad. i myself was brought up in a sect stemming from the grc, in my late teens i decided that kind of life was not for me anymore. i lost everything, family, roof over my head, friends i had grown up with etc. i had to find a place too live, a job, new friends and basically start my life again. It was a hard time in my life but i dont regret any of it. The thing that makes me most sad about what i read here is the inability for people to move on in life!People say they are glad to be out of the GRC yet still they gossip and fret over issues concerning the GRC, what is the deal? some of it is extremely trivial and it makes me wonder why people are still so caught up in it after leaving. i know it destroys peoples lives and self esteem but honestly why bother wrapping your life, thoughts and time into issues that are no longer of any concern too the normal person?iv been living my life away from the church now for two years and i believe the best way to forget and enjoy your remaining life is to press ahead and enjoy every moment, friend and oppurtunity you get. Besides if people who have left are constantly talking and thinking about the GRC, havent they already won?
motmot
8# 



Rank:Poster Venti III

Score:10450
Posts:497
Registered:22/07/2005

Re:Noel is not the Lord's Annointed
(Date Posted:10/09/2009 06:40:35)

Reply to   enrique123  ,
 
                        I take your point and in some ways you are correct, but it is not the same for all and there is one thing a lot of us are not aware of that has been mentioned on here many times. What a lot of us has endured there was basically  " Spiritual Abuse".
                     There was an article posted on her some time ago , by Dr. Enroth ? and it was written years ago about the returned US soldiers from Vietnam and the lack of respect and abuse they received.When you read it, you'll be astonished to see how accurate it portrays the GRC Pty.Ltd. and Dr. Enroth knew NOTHING about Noel Hollins's Cult  I will have to see if I can find it and read it again - does anyone know under which topic it was ?
 

--------------------------------------------------------------
" Those are my principles and if you don"t like them, I do have others"

Come-On !

always tell the truth
motmot

Im_out
9# 



Registered:02/01/2009

Re:Noel is not the Lord's Annointed
(Date Posted:10/09/2009 23:50:30)

"Before my revival experience, I never realised how cold, callous and uncaring humans could be"

This type of behaviour seems to eminate from the top down in RCI, SL VS etc as well uncompassionate, unemotional, exclusive, snobbish, including the lets protect the organisation at all costs and try to shut up those seeking justice mentality. Look at how the Williams and everyone else in the Glenn Duker RVP scandal were victimised and treated
People became more closed, and unfriendly and not willing to reach out to folk after the fabricated lie of the morals policy was introduced back in 1995. It surly produced a hard hearted group of folk.
Box Hill has to be the most unfriendliest materialistic coldest places I have ever visited. Many inter state visitors also used to make comment on this.

Any news on round two of RVP and the Williams and others receiving justice yet ??


(Message edited by Im_out On 10/09/2009 23:56:35)
Fremde
10# 



Rank:Regular Member

Score:4470
Posts:219
Registered:19/09/2007

RE:Noel is not the Lord's Annointed
(Date Posted:17/09/2009 07:12:20)

Ladeeda,

I that the best you can reply? Did I hear you sing "I am woman here me squeak"?

John
Spangler
11# 



Registered:16/07/2009

Re:Noel is not the Lord's Annointed
(Date Posted:17/09/2009 07:20:06)

Fremde,Drive by rat bags,Not all can be as righteous you,but if you guys think Ian has a God given calling may God have Mercy on your souls.You are just the same as revival abusers just as judgemental.They think they are right too.Jesus said love your enemies.
brolga
12# 



Registered:12/09/2009

Re:Noel is not the Lord's Annointed
(Date Posted:17/09/2009 07:34:20)

GRC people, ahuh I remember it well;

We're a happy lot of people yes we are......yes we are- ah.....

--------------------------------------------------------------
'It is for God above all things that we are born, and not for ourselves.' (Calvin)

Galien
13# 



Rank:Poster Venti II

Score:8650
Posts:425
Registered:17/01/2005

RE:Noel is not the Lord's Annointed
(Date Posted:17/09/2009 08:33:54)

All my life ppl have said to me, Tracey, people want to be led, stops them from having to think for themselves. I have never understood that, and I never will. I'm outta here, but before I go, I would like to address John's little paragraph of horror.

The smart ones like me, when women shove their "feminist" opinions down my throat, as their employer, I like many, both men and women, cull them from the herd. Without fuss, without bother. We speak (my management and I) of the golden rule. He who has the gold makes the rules.

1. Everyone is equal and deserves to have an opinion John, whether you agree with it or not
2. Your opinion is not more important than anyone elses
3. People are not cattle, to be "culled". Anyone who thinks they are, is less than human themselves
4. If one feels comfortable disposing of other human beings without fuss or bother, then they probably need to spend a LOT more time on their knees
5. If a person thinks it is okay to glory in the fact they have the gold, they also need to spend a lot more time on their knees
6. That one would even contemplate disposing of others based on the fact they are in a position of superiority by virtue of power and wealth is abhorrent.


And you people wonder why we have nothing in common.

--------------------------------------------------------------
I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day. So there.

Galien
14# 



Rank:Poster Venti II

Score:8650
Posts:425
Registered:17/01/2005

Re:Noel is not the Lord's Annointed
(Date Posted:17/09/2009 16:27:32)

Think about what had to be in place to put Jesus on the cross. Religious politics, fear, herd behaviour, the typical human reaction of covering one's own backside. Jesus threatened the religious order of the day. He could care less about it because it had become a matter of outward show, but no inward devotion and love for God. They killed him because he was a threat to their "authority". He was god, and even the religious leaders of the day could not recognise him.

We are asked to put on the mind of Christ, to rise above our petty rubbish, feeding our egos, our need to impress each other with our "credibility" to be humble, gentle and poor in spirit. How can the love of god reach anyone who already thinks they have all the answers? In two thousand years humans haven't changed, but christ calls us to do so.

At the end of his life not one of his disciples had the guts to stand by him, not one, after everything they had seen and heard. The question for us is, will we live in courage, really look at the life and experience of christ, and truly admit to ourselves who we are or follow the herd through fear?

--------------------------------------------------------------
I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day. So there.

Talmid
15# 



Rank:Regular Member

Score:4190
Posts:205
Registered:21/04/2008

Reply to Spangler
(Date Posted:17/09/2009 16:30:57)

Might I suggest you ponder how Jesus manifested and modeled that love.

--------------------------------------------------------------
There are 10 kinds of people in the world: those who understand binary and those who don't.

Didaktikon
16# 



Rank:Old Forum Fogey

Score:31540
Posts:1514
Registered:29/08/2007

Reply To Galien
(Date Posted:17/09/2009 16:43:16)

Good morning, Galien.

I have no problem with bluntness urch, clearly I myself am very blunt. How come in the time I have been here, hardly anyone has commented on the fact Ian has done nothing but called me names:

Probably because I've not called you names, and probably because each and every time I've pointed out a character, ethical or moral failing on your part, I've done so by appealing to Scripture. It's the "gold standard" used by Christians for precisely this purpose, as it were.

In case you hadn't noticed, each and every post that you regale us with is nothing more than a further attempt to justify why you shouldn't comply with biblical teaching. This isn't now, and never has been an issue about me, the messenger. At it's core the problem is about you rejecting the message! Make me out to be the 'bogey-man', I don't care. But you should care that what you model isn't what Scripture demands of you.

So let's consider your various slanders.

hypocrite

Well, you are a hypocrite. You continue to attack and judge me against criteria that you fail to apply yourself, and fail to be held accountable against.

liar (several times)

Yes, and proven by clear examples at the time. By the way, you've yet to respond to the fact that the Apostle John, in Scripture, identifies you to be a liar too.

ignorant

Indeed. An established fact. You simply don't know about historic and orthodox Christianity or Christian teaching.

arrogant

Surprised? Any person who point-blank refuses to consider the evidence that disproves their opinions is arrogant.

self centred

And self-absorbed. Everything seems to be about you, doesn't it?

egotistical

In spades.

self involved

You disagree? Go back and reflect upon previous posts, and note how often you use the first-person pronoun, "I" to justify your actions. Of course, others have pointed this out to you too, haven't they?

self righteous

Christian righteousness derives from God, and is dependent upon obedience. You contend tooth-and-nail that you don't need to obey, so what's your "righteousness" borne from, then?

it would be more use having a converstation with a rock than it would with me

Not quite. As I recall, I said that I would receive more intelligent responses from having a conversation with a rock. 

rebellious

Doubtless. Christians don't have the option of deciding not to comply with God's directions and requirements. Read your Bible and you'll discover that such action is labeled, "rebellion".

fool

Another lie? I've never called you a fool. Go back and have a look at yesterday's CBox, and you'll soon discover that what I said was: "Galien reminds me of the "fool" discussed in proverbs". If you'd care to know why, then a quick browse through Proverbs 1 might prove illuminating.

not a christian

You're not. "Christian" means "follower of Christ", and is a corporate word. To be a "follower" one actually needs to "follow", something that you're not prepared to do.

disobedient

You are disobedient. How else would you describe someone who disobeys God's Word inscripturated.

stupid

Well now, I don't remember ever saying that.

told I am not a chrstian practically every single day

And rightly so, because your protestations to the contrary aside, you're not a Christian.

... and if had the time or could be bothered going back through cbox and forum I could find many other examples, not just said to me, but to others.

And you're welcome to. I don't tickle peoples' ears with soft words and gentle caresses, as the issues are far too important, having eternal consequences. Furthermore, I don't find any examples in Scripture of outright disobedience and rebellion being handled with velvet gloves.

How come hardly anyone ever asks Ian to stop speaking to people that way but me? Is there one set of rules for him and one for the rest of us?

And here we see another example of your hypocrisy kicking in. To begin with, I've never suggested that different rules must necessarily apply to me. I've always welcomed and encouraged engagement in like kind. However, unlike you, I don't "personalise" issues: I target the problem, you target the person. Second, since when have you ever played by the rules, here? (Or anywhere else for that matter? You've quite proudly boasted on previous occasions that you refuse to play by "society's" rules, because you don't agree with them).

Why is that? Is that what is expected from christian teachers?

What is expected from Christian teachers is teaching that is based, warp-and-weft, on the Bible and its message. What is expected of Christians is the acceptance of biblical teaching. I don't now and never have posted as a representative of any church, denomination, institution or organisation. I'm but one man who is educated and knowledgeable about the issues that this site approaches, and who is prepared to present, and defend, his views from Scripture. Anyone can challenge anything I say, but such a one had better be prepared to provide more than just a personal opinion as justification.

So that you understand my approach better, I will engage in either polemics or irenics depending on the situation. When people are open to what God's Word presents, and are prepared to be civil, then irenics is the order of the day. I started with just such an approach towards you. However due to your profound inability to avoid personalising matters, coupled with your remarkable level of self-justification and misplaced arrogance, it soon became clear to me that polemics was probably more appropriate. If you want to contend against God's Word rather than learn from it, so be it, I'm more than happy to oblige you in like kind.

You bet I am one angry little christian about now.

You're one angry little something, but "Christian" doesn't fit. Christianity, remember, is on Christ's terms and not yours.

Ian



(Message edited by Didaktikon On 17/09/2009 18:23:56)

--------------------------------------------------------------
Vivos voco, mortuos plango

website: www.pleaseconsider.info email: didaktikon@gmail.com

Talmid
17# 



Rank:Regular Member

Score:4190
Posts:205
Registered:21/04/2008

Reply to Galien
(Date Posted:17/09/2009 16:52:08)

Galien,

You warn, quite wisely, about the risks of "group think" or what NASA experienced some years ago as "go fever".

You *also* need to take on board the concept of teamwork or what has been termed "the wisdom of the group" ... which has also been validated by psychological studies. In the bible, I believe, it's incorporated in the practice of "koinonia".

BTW, frankly, if you and I had "followed the herd" by learning (and practising) sound, historical, *biblical* Christianity we would have walked straight out the door as soon as we understood the "revivalist" "salvation message". We didn't, we bore the consequences of that foolishness, we now need to learn wisdom.

(Message edited by Talmid On 17/09/2009 16:56:42)

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There are 10 kinds of people in the world: those who understand binary and those who don't.

Didaktikon
18# 



Rank:Old Forum Fogey

Score:31540
Posts:1514
Registered:29/08/2007

Reply To Spangler
(Date Posted:17/09/2009 16:55:58)

Ah, Spangler.

Drive by rat bags, Not all can be as righteous you, but if you guys think Ian has a God given calling may God have Mercy on your souls.You are just the same as revival abusers just as judgemental.They think they are right too.Jesus said love your enemies.

Rushing to join Galien in the hypocrisy stakes? If you believe there are some who are failing to model the sort of "love" that Jesus requires of Christians (and I'd suggest that you have a closer look at what's intended on that particular score), then shouldn't you be careful to do so, yourself?

Blessings,

Ian

--------------------------------------------------------------
Vivos voco, mortuos plango

website: www.pleaseconsider.info email: didaktikon@gmail.com

Galien
19# 



Rank:Poster Venti II

Score:8650
Posts:425
Registered:17/01/2005

RE:Noel is not the Lord's Annointed
(Date Posted:17/09/2009 19:44:11)

Galien,

You warn, quite wisely, about the risks of "group think" or what NASA experienced some years ago as "go fever".

You *also* need to take on board the concept of teamwork or what has been termed "the wisdom of the group" ... which has also been validated by psychological studies. In the bible, I believe, it's incorporated in the practice of "koinonia".

Teamwork I have no problem with.

BTW, frankly, if you and I had "followed the herd" by learning (and practising) sound, historical, *biblical* Christianity we would have walked straight out the door as soon as we understood the "revivalist" "salvation message". We didn't, we bore the consequences of that foolishness, we now need to learn wisdom.

Talmid, I have no issue with sound historial biblical christianity. I have a problem with people who exercise it the same way as the revivals exercise their organisation. Bullies, i believe they call them. Do you really think after my revival experience I am going to allow anyone to bully me where the things of god are concerned?

It is not correct to believe the only thing wrong with revival was their theology.
A lot of the problem there was the kind of person they attracted. Men who were not that successful in life generally who enjoyed being big fish in little ponds. probably the only power they had experienced in their lives and they went crazy with it. Going to an orhodox church does not mean you will not meet up with bullies. They are everywhere, and we have all worked with them and worshipped beside them.

To be honest, in revival I never got as far as questioning the theology, because I remained completely gobsmacked for the whole nine years that so called christians felt the need to bully others, then used the holy word of god to justify that. That particular practice will always make me sick to my stomach no matter where i find it.

Jesus said learn from me for I am gentle and humble in heart. He was NOT a bully, yet some people seem to think that is what he modelled. Can't see it myself.

Look I know the bullies of this world won't change. They get off on their power, why would they want to let it go, particulalry when they use the bible to justify it? Not to many people want to go up against that, because they are never quite sure whether they are fighting god or not. Just seems very very sad to me that even after a revival experience, some people will just not let their need for power over others go, to the detriment of others.

--------------------------------------------------------------
I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day. So there.

Didaktikon
20# 



Rank:Old Forum Fogey

Score:31540
Posts:1514
Registered:29/08/2007

Reply To Galien
(Date Posted:17/09/2009 19:56:50)

Galien,

Still making excuses to justify your behaviour, huh?

Talmid, I have no issue with sound historial biblical christianity. I have a problem with people who exercise it the same way as the revivals exercise their organisation. Bullies, i believe they call them. Do you really think after my revival experience I am going to allow anyone to bully me where the things of god are concerned?

Helloooo! This isn't a church, it's a forum, a place for discussing and debating ideas. Furthermore, no one can "bully" you to do anything that you don't want to do. And that's the core issue, you don't want to do what Scripture says you must do, and you get cranky when people point this out.

Jesus said learn from me for I am gentle and humble in heart. He was NOT a bully, yet some people seem to think that is what he modelled. Can't see it myself.

Still misquoting and misapplying the Bible like a Revivalist, huh? Read Matthew 11 from verse 28 and up to verse 30. Changes things, doesn't it? Then flip over to John 2:13-18 and have a gander. Jesus, Jesus, meek and mild

Look I know the bullies of this world won't change. They get off on their power, why would they want to let it go, particulalry when they use the bible to justify it? Not to many people want to go up against that, because they are never quite sure whether they are fighting god or not. Just seems very very sad to me that even after a revival experience, some people will just not let their need for power over others go, to the detriment of others.

Really? You like to blame me, but what "power" do I have? What "authority" have I grasped? What "position" have I lusted after? Now, who is it, do you think, who is fighting against God? Who refuses to yield and submit to his Word? Me? Or you?

Ian


(Message edited by Didaktikon On 17/09/2009 20:11:07)

--------------------------------------------------------------
Vivos voco, mortuos plango

website: www.pleaseconsider.info email: didaktikon@gmail.com

Galien
21# 



Rank:Poster Venti II

Score:8650
Posts:425
Registered:17/01/2005

RE:Noel is not the Lord's Annointed
(Date Posted:17/09/2009 20:40:12)

Still making excuses to justify your behaviour, huh?

Ah yes, the pure evil of not going to church. Guess I'm off to hell then hey.

Helloooo! This isn't a church, it's a forum, a place for discussing and debating ideas. Furthermore, no one can "bully" you to do anything that you don't want to do. And that's the core issue, you don't want to do what Scripture says you must do, and you get cranky when people point this out.

Whereever two or three are gathered in my name, I am there in their midst. We are the church Ian, not that building you lob up to.

Still misquoting and misapplying the Bible like a Revivalist, huh? Read Matthew 11 from verse 28 and up to verse 30. Changes things, doesn't it? Then flip over to John 2:13-18 and have a gander. Jesus, Jesus, meek and mild

Changes nothing.

Look I know the bullies of this world won't change. They get off on their power, why would they want to let it go, particulalry when they use the bible to justify it? Not to many people want to go up against that, because they are never quite sure whether they are fighting god or not. Just seems very very sad to me that even after a revival experience, some people will just not let their need for power over others go, to the detriment of others.

Really? You like to blame me, but what "power" do I have? What "authority" have I grasped? What "position" have I lusted after? Now, who is it, do you think, who is fighting against God? Who refuses to yield and submit to his Word? Me? Or you?

You know very well what power you have Ian. Don't play innocent. You believe that "christian authority" has traditionally passed down to you and it is up to you to assess and judge others. How is that not having power over them?

A person's faith is one of the deepest parts of them. You and I both know how easy that is to manipulate Ian.

--------------------------------------------------------------
I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day. So there.

Talmid
22# 



Rank:Regular Member

Score:4190
Posts:205
Registered:21/04/2008

Reply to Galien
(Date Posted:17/09/2009 20:42:49)

Galien

To be honest, in revival I never got as far as questioning the theology, because I remained completely gobsmacked for the whole nine years that so called christians felt the need to bully others, then used the holy word of god to justify that.

If you and I had "followed the herd" by learning (and practising) sound, historical, *biblical* Christianity we would have *listened* to the regular (usually weekly) teaching that "no tongues => no Spirit" and realised that it contradicted the bible. If we were in a place of "bullying" that was not corrected we would have seen that contradicted the bible. Either would have been sufficient to send us out the door asap.

(Message edited by Talmid On 17/09/2009 20:45:14)

--------------------------------------------------------------
There are 10 kinds of people in the world: those who understand binary and those who don't.

Galien
23# 



Rank:Poster Venti II

Score:8650
Posts:425
Registered:17/01/2005

RE:Noel is not the Lord's Annointed
(Date Posted:17/09/2009 20:54:53)

Talmid

To be honest, in revival I never got as far as questioning the theology, because I remained completely gobsmacked for the whole nine years that so called christians felt the need to bully others, then used the holy word of god to justify that.

If you and I had "followed the herd" by learning (and practising) sound, historical, *biblical* Christianity we would have *listened* to the regular (usually weekly) teaching that "no tongues => no Spirit" and realised that it contradicted that Christianity. If we were in a place of bullying that was not corrected we would have seen that contradicted the bible. Either way we would have been out the door asap.


Back in those days I was a blubbering heap of neurosis who was not capable of making a rational decision. I was extremely traumatised by the time i hit revival and instead of sending me off for the help I needed, they tried to counsel me themselves and they just made me worse.  I stayed in revival because I loved my brethren like my family and I knew losing them would shred me, and it did. I stayed for nine years before they booted me out, because at that time in my life I didn't have the strength or the sense to walk away. I believed if I tried hard enough and loved hard enough that things would change. Back then I believed that god was in control and in time he would deal with everything. Isn't that what revival oversight tell you, and you are just meant to be content with that.

It has taken me a long, long time and a lot of pain to learn how to walk away and stay away from things that are not healthy for me. It is still a struggle coz there is still a part of me that wants to believe if I love enough.......etc etc. I am an idealist at heart. Silly me.


--------------------------------------------------------------
I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day. So there.

Didaktikon
24# 



Rank:Old Forum Fogey

Score:31540
Posts:1514
Registered:29/08/2007

Reply To Galien
(Date Posted:17/09/2009 21:03:16)

Galien,

This keeps getting better!

Helloooo! This isn't a church, it's a forum, a place for discussing and debating ideas. Furthermore, no one can "bully" you to do anything that you don't want to do. And that's the core issue, you don't want to do what Scripture says you must do, and you get cranky when people point this out.

Whereever two or three are gathered in my name, I am there in their midst. We are the church Ian, not that building you lob up to.

Bzzzzz! Wrong! Read Matthew 18:15-20 in full, this time. The context of the passage is about the congregation exercising discipline in Christ's name! It says nothing about two or three people constituting the/a "church"! Next try reading Paul's epistles. Therein you'll find that to him the "church" is the locally congregated community of believers, "participating" (i.e. 'Koinonia') in the preaching of God's Word in common, the partaking of Communion in common, and the exercising of discipline in common.

Still misquoting and misapplying the Bible like a Revivalist, huh? Read Matthew 11 from verse 28 and up to verse 30. Changes things, doesn't it? Then flip over to John 2:13-18 and have a gander. Jesus, Jesus, meek and mild.

Changes nothing.

Ya reckon?! Every time that you quote a biblical passage, and try to interpret it in order to justify your beliefs or actions, you screw up and get caught out. And you feel that you shouldn't be part of the Church, why?

Really? You like to blame me, but what "power" do I have? What "authority" have I grasped? What "position" have I lusted after? Now, who is it, do you think, who is fighting against God? Who refuses to yield and submit to his Word? Me? Or you?

You know very well what power you have Ian. Don't play innocent. You believe that "christian authority" has traditionally passed down to you and it is up to you to assess and judge others. How is that not having power over them?

In a word, "bollocks". The one authority, the only authority that I go on (and on, and on ...) about is Scripture. The one measure, the only measure that I use to assess claims to being Christian, or claims to representing Christian orthodoxy is ... wait for it ... Scripture.

A person's faith is one of the deepest parts of them. You and I both know how easy that is to manipulate Ian.

And who says that your faith is actually Christian?

Ian



(Message edited by Didaktikon On 17/09/2009 21:09:17)

--------------------------------------------------------------
Vivos voco, mortuos plango

website: www.pleaseconsider.info email: didaktikon@gmail.com

Galien
25# 



Rank:Poster Venti II

Score:8650
Posts:425
Registered:17/01/2005

Re:Noel is not the Lord's Annointed
(Date Posted:17/09/2009 21:05:03)

Ian,

Blah, blah, blah...........Yawn

--------------------------------------------------------------
I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day. So there.

Didaktikon
26# 



Rank:Old Forum Fogey

Score:31540
Posts:1514
Registered:29/08/2007

Reply To Galien
(Date Posted:17/09/2009 21:11:43)

Galien,

Given how consistently wrong you prove yourself to be, perhaps you should be yawning less, and listening more? This "blah, blah, blah" as you put it, is God's Word for and to you too, don't you know smiley9

How many people have to tell you that you're mistaken, wrong, in error, inconsistent etcetera vis. your claimed "beliefs" vs. your "actions" before you sit up and actually take notice? (I.e. there's been me, John, Shoes, Urch, HG, Eric, Talmid, Ralph, RDP, Chips, etc over the past few months) Is everyone gulity of "ganging up" on you do you think? Is everyone guilty of trying to "bully" you do you think? Or is it just me?

Ian



(Message edited by Didaktikon On 17/09/2009 21:37:29)

--------------------------------------------------------------
Vivos voco, mortuos plango

website: www.pleaseconsider.info email: didaktikon@gmail.com

Fremde
27# 



Rank:Regular Member

Score:4470
Posts:219
Registered:19/09/2007

RE:Noel is not the Lord's Annointed
(Date Posted:17/09/2009 21:17:07)

Galien,

Your powers of misinterpretation are consistently bizarre.

1. Everyone is equal and deserves to have an opinion John, whether you agree with it or not.

Everyone is not equal, in life or my company. Someone has to lead. I seldom have to direct my managers, I chose them specifically for their ability to manage without being nursemaided. I was talking about (and you know it) opinions that annoy others and are offered as an excuse for poor performance and letting down the team.

2. Your opinion is not more important than anyone elses.

In my company they are, when they and cause us to lose business
effect peoples livelihoods!

3. People are not cattle, to be "culled". Anyone who thinks they are, is less than human themselves.

When people act like rogue cattle they are "culled" after warnings and counselling and if they choose to ignore such, then they are sacked, culled, "let go" or whatever you want to call it. Do you understand the words "responsibility" "outcomes" or "consequences"?

4. If one feels comfortable disposing of other human beings without fuss or bother, then they probably need to spend a LOT more time on their knees.

Again you read into things what you want. Where did I say there was no fuss or bother? Most of my staff have been with me for a lot of years. I must be doing something right. I even have two generations of one family working for me. By the way my company turns 21 in a few weeks. I don't reckon you'd last a week here. We talk about a "culture", a culture of interacting and working together for a common goal ..... service to our customers. You'd hate that, our customers probably wouldn't understand that what they want doesn't matter, they should instead only think of what might not fit in with how you feel at the time.

5. If a person thinks it is okay to glory in the fact they have the gold, they also need to spend a lot more time on their knee.

It was a cliche referring to obeying rules. Either you know that or I will have to find some way to write on here in crayon for your benefit.

6. That one would even contemplate disposing of others based on the fact they are in a position of superiority by virtue of power and wealth is abhorrent.

Again you conjure bizarre meanings into too much, which is sad. I could consider that you are conniving, malicious and spiteful, for a little while longer I would rather try to think you are naive.

And you people wonder why we have nothing in common.

No, I do not wonder at all, we have nothing in common, because you alienate yourself, lashing out at anyone you choose with the excuse that their are behaving as a Revivalist.

Your behaviour reminds me of authoritarian, self opinionated, unchallengeable so-called pastors in the sub sects of Revivalism I encountered. I think more of Revivalism became ingrained in you than you realise.

I will pray for you, as I have prayed for you. As I said to Ian in the shoutbox, you remind me of me, how I was and how I still am in some ways. But unlike you, I am not proud of it, and I want to change!

John
Galien
28# 



Rank:Poster Venti II

Score:8650
Posts:425
Registered:17/01/2005

RE:Noel is not the Lord's Annointed
(Date Posted:17/09/2009 22:12:44)

Ian,

Is everyone guilty of trying to "bully" you do you think? Or is it just me?

Just you

--------------------------------------------------------------
I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day. So there.

Didaktikon
29# 



Rank:Old Forum Fogey

Score:31540
Posts:1514
Registered:29/08/2007

Reply To Galien
(Date Posted:17/09/2009 22:17:52)

Galien,

Really? Just me? Is there any reason, then, that you won't heed what the others tell you?

Ian



(Message edited by Didaktikon On 17/09/2009 22:42:26)

--------------------------------------------------------------
Vivos voco, mortuos plango

website: www.pleaseconsider.info email: didaktikon@gmail.com

Galien
30# 



Rank:Poster Venti II

Score:8650
Posts:425
Registered:17/01/2005

RE:Noel is not the Lord's Annointed
(Date Posted:17/09/2009 22:29:57)

John

Your powers of misinterpretation are consistently bizarre.

I think you will find it is the underlying assumptions I question. I know we are not SUPPOSED to do that, but I do.

1. Everyone is equal and deserves to have an opinion John, whether you agree with it or not.

Everyone is not equal, in life or my company. Someone has to lead. I seldom have to direct my managers, I chose them specifically for their ability to manage without being nursemaided. I was talking about (and you know it) opinions that annoy others and are offered as an excuse for poor performance and letting down the team.

Well dude it is all in the perception isnt it really. If people are all equal in my esteem they just are. Christ died for us all equally, everyone is my neighbour, and I do not have to accept the insane pecking order that most people subscribe to.

2. Your opinion is not more important than anyone elses.

In my company they are, when they and cause us to lose business
effect peoples livelihoods!

Well geez get a better employment agency!


3. People are not cattle, to be "culled". Anyone who thinks they are, is less than human themselves.

When people act like rogue cattle they are "culled" after warnings and counselling and if they choose to ignore such, then they are sacked, culled, "let go" or whatever you want to call it. Do you understand the words "responsibility" "outcomes" or "consequences"?

See above. where DO you find these people? I understand all of these concepts John, quite well.


4. If one feels comfortable disposing of other human beings without fuss or bother, then they probably need to spend a LOT more time on their knees.

Again you read into things what you want. Where did I say there was no fuss or bother? Most of my staff have been with me for a lot of years. I must be doing something right. I even have two generations of one family working for me. By the way my company turns 21 in a few weeks. I don't reckon you'd last a week here. We talk about a "culture", a culture of interacting and working together for a common goal ..... service to our customers. You'd hate that, our customers probably wouldn't understand that what they want doesn't matter, they should instead only think of what might not fit in with how you feel at the time.

Well seeing you know nothing about my work ethic, it probably was a silly comment. I have always been a kind, lovely, go the extra mile person when it comes to helping others. If I believe everyone is my neighbour, why would I be any other way? Part of that non existent christianity of mine.

5. If a person thinks it is okay to glory in the fact they have the gold, they also need to spend a lot more time on their knee.

It was a cliche referring to obeying rules. Either you know that or I will have to find some way to write on here in crayon for your benefit.

Make it purple, its my favourite. it may have been a throwaway line John but we both know how much trouble it causes.

Again you conjure bizarre meanings into too much, which is sad. I could consider that you are conniving, malicious and spiteful, for a little while longer I would rather try to think you are naive.

Probably naive, certainly not the other things. But John, if being naive means not hardening my heart, not accepting things that are unacceptable, then call me what ever.


No, I do not wonder at all, we have nothing in common, because you alienate yourself, lashing out at anyone you choose with the excuse that their are behaving as a Revivalist.

Your behaviour reminds me of authoritarian, self opinionated, unchallengeable so-called pastors in the sub sects of Revivalism I encountered. I think more of Revivalism became ingrained in you than you realise.

He he, its more likely to be the way I was dragged up actually. Housing commission upbringings are quite the adventure, especially for a young christian girl. I don't lash out at everyone, only bullies.

I will pray for you, as I have prayed for you. As I said to Ian in the shoutbox, you remind me of me, how I was and how I still am in some ways. But unlike you, I am not proud of it, and I want to change!

Thank you, by all means pray, I need all the help I can get. But I am not you John. You have your reasons for reacting the way you do, I have mine. If I truly believe, as I do that all people are equal, then someone comes along and tries to tell me they are better or more important for any reason, I'm hardly likely to find them credible really am I. I will not be brought under bondage again. The yoke of jesus is easy and light, not heavy and hard. It was never meant to be either of those things.

For the record John, I think you are a kind, generous and honest person, and trust me i'm almost impossible to impress.  They are pretty hard to come by in this day and age. Go you!


(Message edited by Galien On 17/09/2009 23:26:31)

--------------------------------------------------------------
I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day. So there.

Galien
31# 



Rank:Poster Venti II

Score:8650
Posts:425
Registered:17/01/2005

RE:Noel is not the Lord's Annointed
(Date Posted:17/09/2009 23:29:00)

Ian,

Really? Just me? Is there any reason, then, that you won't heed what the others tell you?

Because I simply do not believe that God would reject me because I choose not to go to church.

--------------------------------------------------------------
I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day. So there.

Didaktikon
32# 



Rank:Old Forum Fogey

Score:31540
Posts:1514
Registered:29/08/2007

Reply To Galien
(Date Posted:17/09/2009 23:40:16)

Galien,

Really? Just me? Is there any reason, then, that you won't heed what the others tell you?

Because I simply do not believe that God would reject me because I choose not to go to church.

Yes. You can't be bothered actually checking what you think is God's position on the matter, against his what his Word records is his position on the matter. Perhaps you should carefully rethink this head-in-the-sand 'ostrich'-like approach, as it's you who rejects God, when you choose to disobey him. Christianity is on Christ's terms, not yours.

Finally, this isn't about going to Church. It's about being part of the Church.

Ian



(Message edited by Didaktikon On 17/09/2009 23:53:06)

--------------------------------------------------------------
Vivos voco, mortuos plango

website: www.pleaseconsider.info email: didaktikon@gmail.com

EvilOutsider
33# 



Rank:Member

Score:1080
Posts:48
Registered:09/11/2008

Re:Noel is not the Lord's Annointed
(Date Posted:29/10/2009 07:41:06)

 galien

I too believe not attending church is not a sin. I too believe what is important is ones personal relationship with God and what is in their hearts, and how they treat fellow men.

what astounds me though is the antagonistic way people treat each other in this forum.  we may not all agree with each other but surely we can debate without inflaming? 

--------------------------------------------------------------
-- living in sin, and loving every minute!

Galien
34# 



Rank:Poster Venti II

Score:8650
Posts:425
Registered:17/01/2005

RE:Noel is not the Lord's Annointed
(Date Posted:29/10/2009 16:50:19)

Evil Outsider

I too believe not attending church is not a sin. I too believe what is important is ones personal relationship with God and what is in their hearts, and how they treat fellow men.

Really? Don't tell Ian that, that is what he thinks christianity is NOT.

what astounds me though is the antagonistic way people treat each other in this forum.  we may not all agree with each other but surely we can debate without inflaming? 

I have come out of a cult where the men ruled the roost. They believed they owned the truth, could tell everyone else what the truth was, and treat people like dirt who refused to buy their rubbish. Strangely, I have no time for men like that, no matter where I find them.

On the whole the people I have met on this forum are lovely. The only ones that annoy me are those that think I should fall into line under their "truth". The brand of christianity followed by those people is performance based and could care less about the love in one's heart for their saviour, or for anyone else. They don't care about other people, only about being "obedient" and showing everyone else that they are.  There is no room in them for compassion. They think they know the innermost workings of my heart and soul, but they don't. In short, just like every revival pastor I ever met. They DON'T believe that everyone is equal, or that everyone should have equal value in their hearts. They believe their way of being a christian is the only valid way. Any other way is a compromise and ungodly in thier eyes.

Its simple really. Treat me with respect and you will get the same back. Come at me like a revival pastor and I will go for the nads every time.




--------------------------------------------------------------
I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day. So there.

brolga
35# 



Registered:12/09/2009

Re:Noel is not the Lord's Annointed
(Date Posted:29/10/2009 18:54:49)

Galien,
I have started reading a book that John had sent me, it is on "spiritual abuse." Unintentionally my thoughts directed to you and could cite up many things, from your postings on this forum, that you are a classic victim of such spiritual abuse as well as physically. We all are victims to some degree; those that have experienced such as Revival, but others here seem to be taking hold of things better that are setting them free and on the road to recovery.

 

Really? Don't tell Ian that, that is what he thinks christianity is NOT.

I have come out of a cult where the men ruled the roost. They believed they owned the truth, could tell everyone else what the truth was, and treat people like dirt who refused to buy their rubbish. Strangely, I have no time for men like that, no matter where I find them.

On the whole the people I have met on this forum are lovely. The only ones that annoy me are those that think I should fall into line under their "truth". The brand of christianity followed by those people is performance based and could care less about the love in one's heart for their saviour, or for anyone else. They don't care about other people, only about being "obedient" and showing everyone else that they are.  There is no room in them for compassion. They think they know the innermost workings of my heart and soul, but they don't. In short, just like every revival pastor I ever met. They DON'T believe that everyone is equal, or that everyone should have equal value in their hearts. They believe their way of being a christian is the only valid way. Any other way is a compromise and ungodly in thier eyes.

I will say, without reservations, that you are totally wrong in your assessment toward Ian and others that is declaring the Gospel as it is represented in scripture. It is the places you have come out of that are spiritual abuses not only because of their “power plays” but also of the false doctrines that they preach. Not once have you considered nor challenged in any way the scriptures that have been declared by Ian and for that matter any on here.

To be making such statements as above is totally unacceptable and out of order as a "Christian" but from how you have come across in your postings it seems you can’t handle truth.

 

Its simple really. Treat me with respect and you will get the same back. Come at me like a revival pastor and I will go for the nads every time.

A man [/women] that hath friends, must show himself [/herself] to be friendly……..

--------------------------------------------------------------
'It is for God above all things that we are born, and not for ourselves.' (Calvin)

Galien
36# 



Rank:Poster Venti II

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RE:Noel is not the Lord's Annointed
(Date Posted:29/10/2009 19:09:55)

Ralph,

I have started reading a book that John had sent me, it is on "spiritual abuse." Unintentionally my thoughts directed to you and could cite up many things, from your postings on this forum, that you are a classic victim of such spiritual abuse as well as physically. We all are victims to some degree; those that have experienced such as Revival, but others here seem to be taking hold of things better that are setting them free and on the road to recovery.

It's good that you are reading about spiritual abuse. Everyone is different. Things affect us all differently. If revival were my only problem perhaps I would be able to shrug it off as easily as some others. What annoys me is any system that believes it has the right to abuse anyone for any reason. I am better than I have ever been, because I don't take crap from anyone anymore.

I will say, without reservations, that you are totally wrong in your assessment toward Ian and others that is declaring the Gospel as it is represented in scripture. It is the places you have come out of that are spiritual abuses not only because of their “power plays” but also of the false doctrines that they preach. Not once have you considered nor challenged in any way the scriptures that have been declared by Ian and for that matter any on here.

To be making such statements as above is totally unacceptable and out of order as a "Christian"  but from how you have come across in your postings it seems you can’t handle truth.

Then perhaps Ian should learn to act like a gentleman toward those that don't agree with him. Power plays are not exclusive to revival. They happen everywhere around us, including on this forum, every day. Having been a christian since 1970 brolga it is highly unlikely that I would not have considered what the bible says.

Perhaps you should take a wander back through my time on this forum and write down all the bitchy stuff that Ian hs said to me. Apparently though those who consider themselves christian teachers have the right to say whatever they want to people, no matter how cruel or untrue. Find  me a scripture reference that okays that.

The fact he continues to do that DESPITE the fact he knows I suffer post traumatic stress, and depression (which he thinks people get by being less "robust" than he is) shows me the calibre of the man. In God's great cattle call I am not important as an individual, none of us are. As long as Ian is right, and the rest of us are conforming like good little christians, that is his only concern. Jesus was not like that.

But, as is often the case, there are some rules for those whom others deem to be in charge, and a different set of rules for others. Do what I say, not what I do. Now I wonder where we have seen THAT beofre?



(Message edited by Galien On 29/10/2009 20:35:08)

--------------------------------------------------------------
I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day. So there.

Galien
37# 



Rank:Poster Venti II

Score:8650
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Registered:17/01/2005

Re:Noel is not the Lord's Annointed
(Date Posted:29/10/2009 19:42:55)

Fremde,

Re your comments on cbox

I do not think this is "my" forum and "my" soapbox. But neither do I think it is Ian's. Like everyone, I have a right to my own opinion. Sometimes I think christians forget that everyone has a right to an opinion, not just an opinion christians agree with. There is a whole world out there that thinks what we believe is rubbish. They are entitled to an opinion too.

At no time did I invite Ian Thomason to comment, exhort, teach or admonish me. Hence my dislike of his obsession with doing so.

--------------------------------------------------------------
I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day. So there.

Fremde
38# 



Rank:Regular Member

Score:4470
Posts:219
Registered:19/09/2007

RE:Noel is not the Lord's Annointed
(Date Posted:29/10/2009 22:24:56)

Galien, It did rain yesterday. But I did not come down in the last shower. Your poor little me picked on victim attention getting has not just worn thin, it has worn out.

You suffer post traumatic stress? Ohhhhhhhhhhhh so that makes it alright to spit vitriol at anyone that doesn't agree with Galienism and the rejection of scriptures that are such a bother! And if that's not enough mix in a lot of misandry. It's OK to laugh and excuse your venom while castigating Ian for having the temerity to exhort, rebuke, teach in line with scripture and SOUND (as distinct from loony, feminist, heretical) doctrine.

What a cop out. You don't suffer, you have nestled into a place that suits you just fine! A place that you can poke your head out of and take pot shots, then retreat to, feeling self satisfied and justified, and hurt, oh yes, don't forget to feel hurt and talk about your "disorder".

I WILL TYPE IN CAPITALS - IAN WAS INVITED HERE BY THE OWNER OF THIS FORUM AND IS HERE ALSO BECAUSE AN OVERWHELMING MAJORITY OF PEOPLE ARE NOT ONLY HAPPY (sorry you don't understand that word do you) THAT HE IS HERE, BUT APPRECIATE HIS TEACHING AND GUIDANCE.

He is efficaciously doing what he is supposed to do, bidden to do, asked to do, is wanted to do!

And you moan on and on and on and on and on. Give it a rest ! You don't have to repeat your "victim" story again on here....we could all recite it ! We know it .... ad nauseum!

Isn't the modern world wonderful, there's a disorder and an excuse for everything. It's sure a lot better than being responsible, trusting in God, repenting, casting down pride, caring for others before self and all that other stuff in the Bible you don't like.

When the author and finisher of our faith, comes on stage at the end of the play of life, he will not ask you if you enjoyed the play...................He will ask of you what part YOU played, and was it according to the script!

Dave Allen once said that a preacher quoted in his sermon "There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth". A little old lady at the front of the church was laughing. "What's so funny?" he asked. She said "I don't have any teeth" He replied "Then teeth will be provided!"

Do or say what you like Galien. Your lovey-dovey pick and choose so-called Christianity perhaps, I repeat, perhaps, may impress or fool some in this life, but naked before God you will weep for every rejection of His words and not only be ashamed, but there will be consequences.

Harsh? As my son would say "Not harsh enough!" If you find that judgemental, then throw away your Bible, because it's all plainly written there!

Do you really think you can blame all your heretical rejections on Ian and Revivalists? Rhetorical question. Of course you do!

John
spitchips
39# 



Rank:Rookier

Score:1700
Posts:82
Registered:24/10/2008

Re:Noel is not the Lord's Annointed
(Date Posted:29/10/2009 22:26:03)

Galien

"As long as Ian is right, and the rest of us are conforming like good little christians, that is his only concern. Jesus was not like that".

That is wrong on so many levels, I'm not sure you realise what you say.

It would be the prayer of every Christian that they conformed like good Christians. When you put in the derogatory 'little', demeaning the whole concept, denegrating the walk of so many as no more than 'goody two shoes' types. Not sure those who walk on as Christians, without complaint, through tough and terrible times, would appreciate that.

If someone accused me of making sure everyone was conforming as a good Christian, I'd be delighted. I'm sure Ian will be, too.

As for "Jesus was not like that" .... hello? Are we talking about the same warrior and lord here? The one who fought to the death, conquered it and rose again in order that we can live with him forever?

Am I missing something, or reading too much into a phrase so glibly and thoughtlessly turned out?

Chips
Fremde
40# 



Rank:Regular Member

Score:4470
Posts:219
Registered:19/09/2007

RE:Noel is not the Lord's Annointed
(Date Posted:29/10/2009 22:44:30)

In reply to EvilOutsider's comment "galien, I too believe not attending church is not a sin. I too believe what is important is ones personal relationship with God and what is in their hearts, and how they treat fellow men."

I am reminded what Trinculo said in "The Tempest" (William Shakespeare's "The Tempest" Act 2, Scene 2)

"misery acquaints a man with strange bedfellows"

John Ray (1627 -1705) more succinctly put it..."Misery loves company" He also said "Guilt is always jealous"

To further mix my quotes, as Mitzi Gaynor asked/sung in "South Pacific"...... "You get the picture?"
Galien
41# 



Rank:Poster Venti II

Score:8650
Posts:425
Registered:17/01/2005

RE:Noel is not the Lord's Annointed
(Date Posted:29/10/2009 23:12:09)

Galien, It did rain yesterday. But I did not come down in the last shower. Your poor little me picked on victim attention getting has not just worn thin, it has worn out.

Not interested in being a victim John, or getting attention. You really do think there is only one way to skin a cat don't you?

You suffer post traumatic stress? Ohhhhhhhhhhhh so that makes it alright to spit vitriol at anyone that doesn't agree with Galienism and the rejection of scriptures that are such a bother! And if that's not enough mix in a lot of misandry. It's OK to laugh and excuse your venom while castigating Ian for having the temerity to exhort, rebuke, teach in line with scripture and SOUND (as distinct from loony, feminist, heretical) doctrine.

Excuse me but I did NOT ask Ian to do any of that. Im here as an ex revivalist to talk to other ex revivalists, not be preached to by the chief dipstick. He's a pig to anyone who doesnt agreed with him. Can't you read, or is it just okay in your mind to be a total prick if you are a chirstian teacher? Or is it that you are so used to putting up with that crap from revival you don't know any better? I'M not the one telling everyone else what a spiritual giant I am, he is. Yet he still can't get something as basic as respect for those who disagree with him right. That being the case, why would I listen to him?

What a cop out. You don't suffer, you have nestled into a place that suits you just fine! A place that you can poke your head out of and take pot shots, then retreat to, feeling self satisfied and justified, and hurt, oh yes, don't forget to feel hurt and talk about your "disorder".

Don't tell me what I do John. Or is that how it works in your family, you tell everyone what they do and think and they are okay with that?

I WILL TYPE IN CAPITALS - IAN WAS INVITED HERE BY THE OWNER OF THIS FORUM AND IS HERE ALSO BECAUSE AN OVERWHELMING MAJORITY OF PEOPLE ARE NOT ONLY HAPPY (sorry you don't understand that word do you) THAT HE IS HERE, BUT APPRECIATE HIS TEACHING AND GUIDANCE.

Well I don't. Perhaps you could explain to him the gentle art of minding his own business. Not that he is capable of that.

And you moan on and on and on and on and on. Give it a rest ! You don't have to repeat your "victim" story again on here....we could all recite it ! We know it .... ad nauseum!

Isn't the modern world wonderful, there's a disorder and an excuse for everything. It's sure a lot better than being responsible, trusting in God, repenting, casting down pride, caring for others before self and all that other stuff in the Bible you don't like.

Oh dear John, your compasion fatigue is showing. I sincerely hope for your sake that is not how others have treated you. As though you know what goes on in the hearts and minds of others. What a joke.

When the author and finisher of our faith, comes on stage at the end of the play of life, he will not ask you if you enjoyed the play...................He will ask of you what part YOU played, and was it according to the script!

What script was that John? See he knows what goes on inside me, you have NO clue. Try some original thought instead of rehashed whatever. Very liberating.

Dave Allen once said that a preacher quoted in his sermon "There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth". A little old lady at the front of the church was laughing. "What's so funny?" he asked. She said "I don't have any teeth" He replied "Then teeth will be provided!"

Do or say what you like Galien. Your lovey-dovey pick and choose so-called Christianity perhaps, I repeat, perhaps, may impress or fool some in this life, but naked before God you will weep for every rejection of His words and not only be ashamed, but there will be consequences.

And seeing he knows me soul deep and you dont I have no problem whatsoever with his righteous judgment of me. I have always stood naked before him. How DARE you presume to stand in his place.

Harsh? As my son would say "Not harsh enough!" If you find that judgemental, then throw away your Bible, because it's all plainly written there!

Do you really think you can blame all your heretical rejections on Ian and Revivalists? Rhetorical question. Of course you do!

I am beginning to wish I had not credited you with as much intelligence and insight as I had. You  dissappoint me with your one dimensional assessments of everything I say.

(Message edited by Galien On 29/10/2009 23:30:31)

--------------------------------------------------------------
I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day. So there.

Metanoian
42# 



Registered:13/06/2009

Reply To Galien
(Date Posted:29/10/2009 23:18:33)

Reply to Galien
 


Then perhaps Ian should learn to act like a gentleman toward those that don't agree with him.


Ian act ??? what for ?? Why ?? I have never seen Ian in my whole life to be able to recognize him.. perhaps he is the spitting image of Darcy Ryan ????  dunno never seen him before ... All I have ever done is trundle over a few thoughts he has expressed on the boards ................

But Ian act ??? Yes I suppose so but if he did act then it would be a pretty hard one to follow at that.. !!!!

Well I have to be away as I have papers climbing out of my ears at the moment and lots more work to do yet.

By the way Ian I read your magnum opus again after I stumbled across the demonstrative pronoun in Acts 2:15 when I picked up on the masculine and I was nicely surprised at what you had to say. Indeed you have kept it simple to the point and that would be even beyond the best brains on offer at the RF.

well am busy and much to do

will catch up in a few weeks

blessings

Metanoia
Galien
43# 



Rank:Poster Venti II

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Registered:17/01/2005

RE:Noel is not the Lord's Annointed
(Date Posted:29/10/2009 23:23:04)

"As long as Ian is right, and the rest of us are conforming like good little christians, that is his only concern. Jesus was not like that".

That is wrong on so many levels, I'm not sure you realise what you say.

It would be the prayer of every Christian that they conformed like good Christians. When you put in the derogatory 'little', demeaning the whole concept, denegrating the walk of so many as no more than 'goody two shoes' types. Not sure those who walk on as Christians, without complaint, through tough and terrible times, would appreciate that.

That is not what I meant chips. I meant that to people like Ian conformity is more important than the heart.

If someone accused me of making sure everyone was conforming as a good Christian, I'd be delighted. I'm sure Ian will be, too.

Well I dont know how it works for you chips but im more than busy enough dealing with the beams in my own eyes to be running around pulling the splinters out of others. What other christians do is their business, im there to support them, not judge them as is the practice of some.

As for "Jesus was not like that" .... hello? Are we talking about the same warrior and lord here? The one who fought to the death, conquered it and rose again in order that we can live with him forever?

Yes we are. I dont think he was too worried about where my bottom sits on a sunday when he was up there dying for me. He did that out of love, not obedience.

Am I missing something, or reading too much into a phrase so glibly and thoughtlessly turned out?

Im tired of control freaks chips. I don't read jesus as one, and i beieve those truly walking in him dont need to control others.

--------------------------------------------------------------
I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day. So there.

Galien
44# 



Rank:Poster Venti II

Score:8650
Posts:425
Registered:17/01/2005

RE:Noel is not the Lord's Annointed
(Date Posted:29/10/2009 23:37:10)

In reply to EvilOutsider's comment "galien, I too believe not attending church is not a sin. I too believe what is important is ones personal relationship with God and what is in their hearts, and how they treat fellow men."

I am reminded what Trinculo said in "The Tempest" (William Shakespeare's "The Tempest" Act 2, Scene 2)

"misery acquaints a man with strange bedfellows"

John Ray (1627 -1705) more succinctly put it..."Misery loves company" He also said "Guilt is always jealous"

To further mix my quotes, as Mitzi Gaynor asked/sung in "South Pacific"...... "You get the picture?"

This is exactly what I mean. Who DO you think you are to make light of Evil Outsiders love for God or what s/he believes?

Sometimes I wonder why some of you people ever bothered leaving revival. You still think it is okay to poke fun at others who do things differently from you. Grow up!

--------------------------------------------------------------
I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day. So there.

brolga
45# 



Registered:12/09/2009

Re:Noel is not the Lord's Annointed
(Date Posted:30/10/2009 00:00:40)

Galien,

Sometimes I wonder why some of you people ever bothered leaving revival. You still think it is okay to poke fun at others who do things differently from you. Grow up!

Who's "poking fun?" When it comes to doing differently, and preaching your own point of view, to what scripture proclaims, then it's a lie and eternally "unwise"

--------------------------------------------------------------
'It is for God above all things that we are born, and not for ourselves.' (Calvin)

Galien
46# 



Rank:Poster Venti II

Score:8650
Posts:425
Registered:17/01/2005

RE:Noel is not the Lord's Annointed
(Date Posted:30/10/2009 00:10:15)

Brolga,

Sometimes  I wonder why some of you people ever bothered leaving revival. You still think it is okay to poke fun at others who do things differently from you. Grow up!
Who's "poking fun?" When it comes to doing differently,  and preaching your own point of view,  to what scripture proclaims, then it's a lie and  eternally "unwise"

I have never known you to make fun of anyone. You are a grown up. I am not talking about preaching my own point of view. You often make that mistake, as do others. Its a difference in focus which apparently I am not allowed to have.

--------------------------------------------------------------
I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day. So there.

youngies_no_more
47# 



Rank:Rookier IV

Score:2270
Posts:91
Registered:14/04/2007

RE:Noel is not the Lord's Annointed
(Date Posted:30/10/2009 00:17:19)

weird reading ...

isn't this thread about Noel not being the Lord's annointed .... 

who is Ian anyways?????

--------------------------------------------------------------
29 Jan 1992 - NH Hollins
"You need to do what your heart knows is right"

So I did, and quit the GRC that same night.

brolga
48# 



Registered:12/09/2009

Re:Noel is not the Lord's Annointed
(Date Posted:30/10/2009 00:35:38)

y_n_m,

Is this the only thread you look at?

Why not "listen" to what is being said. All this is a result of those as Noel that "obliterate" peoples souls



(Message edited by brolga On 30/10/2009 00:40:54)

--------------------------------------------------------------
'It is for God above all things that we are born, and not for ourselves.' (Calvin)

Didaktikon
49# 



Rank:Old Forum Fogey

Score:31540
Posts:1514
Registered:29/08/2007

Reply To Galien
(Date Posted:30/10/2009 00:57:22)

Galien,

I dont think he was too worried about where my bottom sits on a sunday when he was up there dying for me. He did that out of love, not obedience.

Tsk, tsk. I thought you knew your Bible? At least, you've claimed too smiley9

"And being found in human form, he humbled himself and became obedient to the point of death—even death on a cross." Philippians 2:7 & 8.

Goose.

Ian

--------------------------------------------------------------
Vivos voco, mortuos plango

website: www.pleaseconsider.info email: didaktikon@gmail.com

Galien
50# 



Rank:Poster Venti II

Score:8650
Posts:425
Registered:17/01/2005

RE:Noel is not the Lord's Annointed
(Date Posted:30/10/2009 01:31:21)

Ian,

dont think he was too worried about where my bottom sits on a sunday when he was up there dying for me. He did that out of love, not obedience.

Tsk, tsk. I thought you knew your Bible? At least, you've claimed too smiley9

"And being found in human form, he humbled himself and became obedient to the point of death—even death on a cross." Philippians 2:7 & 8.

Goose.

Now why does it not surprise me that you believe he died for you because he had to, not because he wanted to?

"for God so loved the world that he GAVE his only begotten son........." gift. free. God is love in case u hadn't noticed.

Legalist.

--------------------------------------------------------------
I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day. So there.

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