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liertzbel
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1#
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Registered:01/11/2008
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Re:VALKYRIE.
(Date Posted:05/07/2009 10:23:20)
"Die glücklichen Sklaven sind die erbittertsten Feinde der Freiheit" (Happy slaves are the most virulent enemies of freedom) (Marie v Ebner-Eschenbach)
btw, another film which was an eye opemner to me in terms of the hollow principles of friendship and moral at CAI : "Napola"
L.
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Metanoian
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2#
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Registered:13/06/2009
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Re:VALKYRIE.
(Date Posted:06/07/2009 01:22:30)
Yes and what will become of Michael Krause ??? We will have to wait and see as time will surely tell..
blessings
Metanoia
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Didaktikon
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3#
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Rank:Old Forum Fogey
Score:31540
Posts:1514
Registered:29/08/2007
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Reply To Metanoian
(Date Posted:06/07/2009 16:15:48)
Good morning, Eric.
Gaol, probably.
Blessings,
Ian
--------------------------------------------------------------
Vivos voco, mortuos plango
website: www.pleaseconsider.info email: didaktikon@gmail.com
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Varyag
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4#
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Rank:Not a lurker
Score:850
Posts:35
Registered:24/04/2007
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RE:VALKYRIE.
(Date Posted:08/07/2009 01:30:34)
One question about von Stauffenberg - was he and is accomplies not high-ranked Nazis themselves who saw the retribution coming their way once the Allies and the Red Army would finally win?
They were just trying to score some brownie points with the winning nations - there is NOTHING more to it. They CHOSE to be nazis, they went up in the Nazi-hierarchy WILLINGLY, and they did that willingly all their lifes, reaping all the perks that came along with it. They are nothing but NAZIS trying to save their own backsides. A leopard cannot change its spots.
I have problems calling "freedom fighters" high-ranked Nazi officers, who stood in every respect near Hitler. I take that as a personal insult as one coming from a family, the vast part of which was shot dead in Treblinka and in Minsk getto by similar, but lower-ranked, "freedom fighters".
Do you honestly want to tell me that all along the way von Stauffenberg and his Nazi accomplieices knew nothing of the millions of people being put to death beacause of the origin, religion and lifestyle?! Give me a break...
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Fremde
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5#
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Rank:Regular Member
Score:4470
Posts:219
Registered:19/09/2007
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RE:VALKYRIE.
(Date Posted:08/07/2009 08:15:25)
Greetings Varyag,
It always amazes me that people like Claus von Stauffenberg and Erwin Rommel are painted to be "saints" of the 3rd Reich. From the Wannseekonferenz (20 Januar 1942) onwards anyone of officer rank (and many below) not only new of the atrocities commited, but was complicit by their silence and inaction. Later in WW2 you can throw Roosevelt, Stalin and Churchill in to the same mix for their shameful treatment not only of civilian Poles but those Polish soldiers and airmen that served along side so-called "allied" troops. At Yalta, Roosevelt, Stalin and Churchill sacrificed the Poles to suit their own greed and ambitions.
Furthermore, have you ever considered the atrocities and millions murdered post war in the most subtle approved "ism" of all ........ Feminism ...... with it's brutal right wing ..... the pro-abortionists? The Feminist power brokers rail against war abroad and champion the murder of their own children and the children of others. The statistics of babies aborted make war deaths the lesser evil by number.
With the exception of Roman Catholics, one does not hear much protest from the so-called; "orthodox" churches against abortion-murder. Some Christians (?) even subscribe to the modernist/evolutionist theory of feotuses not being babies till they are "developed" or come to birth.
Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; hat put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter! Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight! Woe unto them that are mighty to drink wine, and men of strength to mingle strong drink: Which justify the wicked for reward, and take away the righteousness of the righteous from him! Therefore as the fire devoureth the stubble, and the flame consumeth the chaff, so their root shall be as rottenness, and their blossom shall go up as dust: because they have cast away the law of the Lord of hosts, and despised the word of the Holy One of Israel. Therefore is the anger of the Lord kindled against his people, and he hath stretched forth his hand against them, and hath smitten them: and the hills did tremble, and their carcases were torn in the midst of the streets. For all this his anger is not turned away, but his hand is stretched out still. (Isaiah 5:20 to 25)
John
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Varyag
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6#
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Rank:Not a lurker
Score:850
Posts:35
Registered:24/04/2007
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RE:VALKYRIE.
(Date Posted:08/07/2009 11:57:25)
Thanx, Fremde!
Now there is another interesting thought that purplexes me. I will try to put in bullet points (since we are now on the subject of freedom fighting Germans):
- the 1st world war was started by the Germans (Austrians actually, but German mobilisation started 2 days after Austrias war declaration on Serbia, so it was in effect Germany).
- hitler was elected more or less democratically, so we can say that the German population quite liked his rhetorics and opinions
- the 2nd world war was started by the Germans. Not only did these guys kinda exterminated (nearly) the whole nation withing Europe, they managed to cause tens of millions of deaths accross Europe. Alone on the soviet side there were about 30 million people dead (these deaths were a direct result of the Germans coming to my country uninvitedly).
Now let's see what price they paid... Half of Germany occupied by the soviets? Gimme a break... Bet you that the amounts of deaths caused by east german kommis among civilians would not even go up to 100,000 people.
And now Germany is AGAIN united, warring outside its borders (first in Yugoslavia and now in Afghanistan), have ambitions to sit on the Security Council in the UN, trying to play the leading role in the EU.
Am I being paranoid or have I missed smth here?!
And someone is trying to tell some nonesense about glorifying nazy freedom fighters... Yeah right.
Having said that, I am married to a German, my kids are Germans and I very much like my wife's relatives and family (although they are socialists :)
Dima
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Fremde
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7#
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Rank:Regular Member
Score:4470
Posts:219
Registered:19/09/2007
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RE:VALKYRIE.
(Date Posted:09/07/2009 00:16:46)
Dima you missed nothing and you are no more paranoid than me....and of course I am very normal!
With my grandparentage I think I could claim German Citizenship as a
"Volksdeutsche". The odd part of it is that when WW1 broke out my
German Grandfather and his brothers were immigrants living in Adelaide
and signed up with the Australian Army and served in France, all except
the youngest, who served in the Australian Army in WW2. On the other
side my German Great Uncle aged 15 tried three times to join up, the
third time he was successful and was in the Gallipoli landing. He died
at Cape Helles 13 days later.
I am a Blackadder fan. There is a classic episode where they are
looking for a German Spy in their midst. Captain Balckadder has Captain
Darling Tied to a chair with a chamber pot on his head accusing him of
being the spy. Captain Darling exclaims "Look, I'm as British as Queen
Victoria!" To which Captain Blackadder replies "So your Father's
German, your half German, and you married a German!"
I think it was Bismark that said "if there is to be a major conflict in
Europe, it will probably start over some trivial thing in the Balkans:
My view of the Balkans:
1. In WW1 it was pretty simple to work out which side was which, so
what did the Yugoslavs do? They started killing each other as a side
issue.
2. In WW2 It was pretty simple to work out which side was which, so
what did the Yugoslavs do? They started killing each other as a side
issue.
3. The Cold War came into being and Tito subdued Yugoslavie into a sort of peace and apathy.
4. The Iron Curtian came down, the Berlin Wall was demolished. No more
Cold War. So what did the Yugoslavs do? They started killing each other
as a side issue.
5. Not a clever bunch.
Some Slob (or Slobodan) called Milosevich says to you one day "kill the
neighbour you live next to", and you say, "Yeah his kids and mine went
to school together and we help each other from time to time and they
cause no bother, sounds like a prety good reason for them to die!"
Mahathir the ex Prime Minister of Malasia called Europe "The Continent
of Holocausts". Whilst he ought to have considered the hsitory of his
own back yard, his assessment of Europe was pretty accurate.
I loved it when Cherie Blair (the wife of the then British Prime
Minister Tony) came to Australia as the invited speaker to a women's
conference, was paid $ 200,000.00 plus, got as many freebies as she
could, told us that we had a poor human rights record and went home
with hugs and kisses on her departure. England were in charge for over
50 per cent of the time since the first landing at Sydney Cove, but I
didn't hear of her asking her husband to pay reparation.
England has a superb track record of human rights on every continent
except Antarctica where they just slaughtered anything that moved
instead.
My son (who teaches history) loves the Monty Python quote in "The Meaning Of Life"
"Now two boys have been found rubbing linseed oil into the school
cormorant. Now, some of you may feel that the cormorant does not play
an important part in the life of the school, but I would remind you
that it was presented to us by the Corporation of the town of Sudbury
to commemorate Empire Day, when we try to remember the names of those
from the Sudbury area who so gallantly gave their lives to keep China
British."
Ah the British Empire and "British Israel" not strange bedfellows at all really!
John
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Scotsman123
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8#
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Registered:20/06/2009
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Re:VALKYRIE.
(Date Posted:09/07/2009 12:58:07)
Hi John,
I think you got some of your history mixed up a wee bit. There was no "Yugoslavia" or indeed a homogenous group of people called "Yugoslavs" in WWI.
Croatia, Slovenia & Bosnia were all seperate nations that were engulfed over time into the Austrian-Hungarian empire. "Yugloslavia" (an artificial construct) only came into existence in 1918.
Serbia was in independant nation from the 800's onwards - firslty as part of the wider reaching Byzantine Empire. Latter it was swallowed up by the Ottoman Empire losing it independant status in the late 1400's - yet the Serbs continued to fight for their own homeland. In 1852 they eventually achieved that - the Principality of Montenegro coming into existence - and Serbia being recognised a nation state in 1878 in the Congress of Berlin - despite many Serbs being under foreign rule (Hapsburgs in the North, Ottoman's in the South). The southern Serbs were reunited in 1912, but the northern Serbs remained under foreign rule by the Hapsburgs - thus sparking WW1.
Sadly the powers that be lumped the Croats, Bosnians, Sloveneians etc in with them, and created "Yugoslavia" - the land of the southern Slavs.
WW2 - the Serbians were persecuted by the Nazi's. Some of the other Slavic nations joined with the German Nazi's (notably Croatia).
So WW1 was not "Yugoslavs" fighting each other. It was the Serbs fighting the Austro-Hungarians. Neither was WW2 strictly "yugoslavs" fighting each other. The German's invaded, the catholic Croats joing their side against the Orthodox Serbs.
G.
(Message edited by Scotsman123 On 09/07/2009 14:48:26)
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Fremde
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9#
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Rank:Regular Member
Score:4470
Posts:219
Registered:19/09/2007
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RE:VALKYRIE.
(Date Posted:10/07/2009 21:11:57)
George,
It was tongue in cheek response to Varyag's tongue in cheek response. I have worked with "Balkans" Serbs & Croats,
who used to fly the "Yugoslavia" flag, till the time came to relive
some grudge taught to them by their parents and grandparents and they
championed their late 20th century cause of ethnic cleansing to bring about
statehood. I love to oversimplify their stupidity (see my previous
post) to be as preposterous as their justification of nationalism.
Unfortunately you have also oversimplified their history and justified
their nationalism. Fighting for (and justifying) nationalism and ethnic cleansing is like fornicating for
virginity.
I remember you having a serious intractable discussion with me about British Israel as part of the elite teaching group in the CAI, as directed by lord and master Scott. I didn't bother even trying to debate with you at the time, but you inadvertently assisted me in seeing just how many bizarre doctrines were behind the sugary facade of the CAI hierarchy, and a more
recent one about being glad to be Protestant and the assertion of your witnessing Scott's miracles! Ouch! I hope and pray that in time you will stop hanging your hat on rusty and decayed "isms". On the other hand, it takes time on some issues to put things behind. I am thankful (to God, not them) that some on this forum have caused me to have a re-look at what I have hung on to that is worthless. We brought nothing into this world and it is certain we can carry nothing out (1 Timothy 6:7).
It often hurts, our pride, our precious dogma, our frustration against what appears to be injustice, but that's silly really.....God our Father is in control, do we believe His promises? Or do we sort of but get head up in what we want things to be? I had forgot what my grandparents used to say "the wheels of God grind slow, but infinitely small".
Why just this week a water main burst at my work and I was told I was liable and it would cost lots of thousands to fix. Someone remarked that I seemed unfazed. I replied "God makes his rain to fall upon the just and the unjust" (Matthew 5:45), He knows what He is doing.
So they came and dug down and found the problem was at one point, not as they feared, throughout. We took photographs.They fixed the fault which was attributed to original construction, and my landlady (bless her) agreed to pay without an argument. Of course the detractors and cynical on this forum (encouraged by some for whatever reason) will no doubt put that down to chance and believe that God had nothing to do with it. But if you don't know, or don't enough know, "in Him we live, and move and have our being" (Acts 17:28). A little? Somewhat? No, our all!
I have posted before this clip about hurting.....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tY6iKJn-HK4
Learn the trick or you (and life) will remain tedious. Try not to let every ball go through to the keeper....it's just not cricket.
John
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Scotsman123
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10#
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Registered:20/06/2009
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RE:VALKYRIE.
(Date Posted:11/07/2009 12:12:58)
Hi John,
Sorry, I thought we were talking about history, not water pipes. You lost me in the change of subjects. It was not that you just oversimplified the subject of Yugoslavia, but that you stated quite a few things that were actually wrong. I'm a history geek - what can you do? :)
In answer to your other points - I have witnessed God doing miracles - not Scott (or anyone else). Sorry, but I will not deny what I have seen or experienced (both the good and the bad).
As for being a protestant - I think our previous discussion was mostly on the Trinity. I believe the Trinity is a vital part of understanding the Scriptures correctly, you don't. What does that have to do with the Balkans?
And as for the BI discussing we had (can't remember it to be honest) - if it helped you to get out of the CAI, then it turned out great! Amazing how God can use us in our ignorance, eh?
Hope you are doing well - and good to hear that your water pipe problem is sorted.
As we say in Scotland - "lang may yer lum reek"!
G.
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Varyag
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11#
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Rank:Not a lurker
Score:850
Posts:35
Registered:24/04/2007
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RE:VALKYRIE.
(Date Posted:14/07/2009 05:44:49)
Hi John!
Greetings from Moscow. Plus 30 degrees. Glad we are on a datcha (summer house) outside of town. Had a conversation with my wife an hour ago - can u imagine it is this hot in australia all the itme?! Nightmare...
Yugos... Such a complicated and complex subject. Evrybody was doing genocide on everybody out there, yet it was only the Serbs who got the blame and were put in prisons. Not the bosnians, not the albanians in kosovo... Serbian civilians were bombed out in the very british israel identity fashion.
Funny reading about you being preached to about british israel identity :) Dont foget, George is still a british israel simpathiser as he himself wrote at another board :))))) It is indeed so - you can escape the sect but the sect doesnt necessarily escape you.
I guess there must be something attractive in belonging to some well defined group. "I am a Protestant" (c). Does that mean I now have to agree with homosexual weddings and all that jazz? Thats quite a protestant thing aparently. Lutheran, to be precise. The anglican thing is to have homoselxual priests. Both sects are protestant.
Speak to you later....
With British Israel greetings
Dima
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Scotsman123
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12#
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Registered:20/06/2009
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Re:VALKYRIE.
(Date Posted:14/07/2009 10:04:16)
Hi Dima,
I love how others get to speak for me here! LOL. Seems like everyone is trying to tell me what it is I think/believe about stuff. That makes me laugh. :)
Anyhoo - nope, no sympathiser for BI. Not me. Yup - I am a protestant. Nope - will not perform weddings for homosexuals nor agree with it. I don't think "protestant" is a well defined group at all. That ranges from crazy Pentecostals to Anglican priests. Quite a wide range of beliefs in there.
Totally agree about the Serbs - they seem to have gotten the raw deal in the wests rush to find someone to blame.
Gotta run - am visiting an old folks home to drive an elderly lady to go and see her husband in hospital. Should be a good day.
L8r!
Scotsman123.
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Fremde
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13#
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Rank:Regular Member
Score:4470
Posts:219
Registered:19/09/2007
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RE:VALKYRIE.
(Date Posted:14/07/2009 19:27:51)
G'day George,
I guess we all get a bit confused when you categorically state what you believe and then recant/deny/backflip.
Your email to me declaring, and I quote: "Thank God I am a Protestant!", was tiltled" "there was a young guy", and had no mention of the (so called) Trinity. Nice try. But for the record I have never denied the God being in Christ, or Christ being in God or the Holy Spirit as a person, my objection to the "Trinity" is the hocus pocus, over emphasis, and the need for a "creed". It's not scriptual. Trinitarianism smacks of the "you have to speak in tongues to be saved" mantra. Many have tried to trip me up on the Trinity. It hasn't and won't work. They usually end up saying "but if you believe a we do, why don't you like the profession of "The Trinity"? Who says I have to? If it was all that important it would be openly declared in the Bible as doctrine, and it isn't.
Yeah, yeah, you are a historian (yawn), I won't start quoting you sections of "Vom Krieg" by Carl von Clausewitz (in German or English), or other history volumes, if you'll spare me the skewered history of nationalism in Europe. My heart doesn't bleed for nationalist fanatics that supposedly got a raw deal. I see that sort of racism every day under the pathetic guise of "multiculturalism". Odd how people are "proud to be whatever", when the Bible tells us to eshew pride.
Look what you've done! You've now got Varyag giving British Israel greetings....ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh!
If I had been raised a nationalist German (as distinct from socialist and communists as most of my family were), the Lutheran church would have been an obvious choice. Luther despised Jews and wanted them obliterated from Europe. You would have thought post WW2 they'd have at least dropped the bigot's name from their church! And on the news last night, the Catholics and Proddys baiting one another in Belfast. There they go again. Letting their light so shine?
You know I didn't lose you in the "change of subjects" in my previos posting. You are not naive and neither am I. I was illustrating a point and you know it. Let's leave the coy innocent stuttering to Scott shall we?!
On the other hand.....you are not long out of the CAI. I was a mess for more time that the time you have been out, before I shed a lot of what I though was biblical but wasn't......and I'm still shedding as God my Father enlightens me, bless Him. I'll bear with you, and of course pray for you, as I do. Please drop the hurt confused puppy bit.
Thanks for your well wishes about the fixing of my water pipe problem. I laughed at you unintended double entendre, because I have also just had a major prostate operation, which has taken longer that normal (???) to settle down, but finally has, big time, so that I do not have to plan everything I do around "where is the nearest toilet"? and trying to break Roger Bannister's record.
John
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Scotsman123
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14#
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Registered:20/06/2009
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Re:VALKYRIE.
(Date Posted:15/07/2009 09:23:46)
Hi John,
Sorry to hear about the prostrate problem - and glad to hear that you have had it fixed. And glad you are out of the CAI.
I think we should leave everything else be - we obviously just antagonise each other, which isn't fruitful or productive. Apologies if what I have posted has offended in some way.
God bless - George.
PS I am still shedding too.
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Fremde
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15#
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Rank:Regular Member
Score:4470
Posts:219
Registered:19/09/2007
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RE:VALKYRIE.
(Date Posted:15/07/2009 21:18:49)
George,
If you are going to apologise to anyone, do it without the "if". I would rather however that you mellowed.
My greatest issue with you, is your running with the foxes, then hunting with the hounds. Some past CAI folk have posted some pretty rabid stuff here. Reminds me of me. Cut them some slack, as you want slack cut to you. The beating up of Jock and others has served no purpose but to estrange them. Jock has accomplished what others only talk about, on the this "one trick pony" forum. He is mellowing and will continue to mellow. What a pity few have got to know the guy, or wanted to. When I first encountered him, people here warned me about his past in the CAI. Yeah, and like we all have such wonderful pasts to be able to judge him!?!? Motes and splinters.
I also don't like assumptions of what I believe. That's very "Williamsish" very "revivalistic" very "Aimoorevivalforumic".
I don't make a lot of comments here these days because I find it sadly futile. However I count you in Christ as a brother, a family relation, a kinsman, in what we have experienced.
"And of some, have compassion, making a difference, and others save with fear pulling them out of the fire, hating even the garment spotted by the flesh". (Jude 1: 22 & 23).
We were brainwashed with disloyalty and division to one another. When I first left the PRC after privately, then publicly denouncing the evil that was going on, then being put out of fellowship, I remember standing in a field at night, in a cold bleak English winter shivering and crying out "Why me Father? What have I done to others to deserve this treachery and betrayal by friends?" And the Lord answered me with the things I had done and conveniently forgotten. Well that put those thoughts to bed! Because none of us has clean hands, ought we not bear with the folly of our brethren for a while? Don't you remember Scott's love of hauling folk before his "throne" and ripping them apart?
My mum died a few months back. My estranged brother and I came together to arrange things. We like minded have agreed to bury the past. It is funny how in the past few months, we have gone overboard with checking to see if everything is OK with one another. He is my only close relative left (apart from my children of course). Ah the prayers and tears answered!
Beware of wolves oh so cleverly masquerading as sheep, their fruit is the dividing and rending of the flock, while they offer things pleasing to the ear and our minds. Satan is very adept at masquerading as an angel of light (2 Corinthians 11:14). It is a small thing for him to entice us with what pleases us.
I pray God blesses you, me and ours, and keeps us always.
John
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