Posted on 01/10/2009 22:50:04
Hi Rob
I am sorry for engaging you in discussion, I regret it.
T
Posted on 01/10/2009 17:28:03
Hi Rob
Thanks for your dissertation on modern life and how things have changed in the world - good stuff. However, I dont see how changes to government legislation on the subjects of smoking in restaurants, voting or women's rights has to do with RCI policy.
As for forgiveness, you are asking people whose lives were ripped apart by despotic revivalist pastors who, in many cases, broke the law by forcing underage couples to leave the church until they were old enough to marry, forced abused and battered women back into the relationships they had fled to be "right with the lord". Now I know all you revivalists are well adjusted and have a huge capacity for forgiveness but Rob, how do you think you would cope if this was your son or daughter or loved one.
Out of interest Rob, where are you based and who is your Pastor?
Posted on 30/09/2009 18:04:09
Good point Ian
Sometimes I find myself having a shoot-from-the-hip reaction to revival peddlers.... I guess it makes an interesting point about the impact my RCI involvement has had on me from birth 'till 25 is a formative part of ones' life. 10 years on and despite the fact I live in blissful happiness I can still have a mildly aggressive reaction to people extolling the "virtues"of the place.
I suspect that things may have changed a little in those 10 years, however, given that the doctrine is as dodgey as you and others have proven it to be, it is unlikely to experience any sort of positive trend.
T
Posted on 30/09/2009 17:23:07
Hi Rob
Yes I did go to a church with a fruit bat up front, his name was Lloyd, after a while another fruit bat turned up his name was Simon. 26 years in RCI, don't bother telling me about the on-the-record rhetoric and hyperbole that comes from the platform. A lot of the rules and regulations are delivered behind closed doors and enforced by the group culture. In your posts you use a lot of the platitudes I used to hear at RCI, I note you use the word "encourage" a lot, That is an RCI'ism for "enforce our culture".
Yes I did ask Simon Longfield to explain to me the Duker situation and his involvement, he simply denied any wrong doing and told me he was "Waiting for the umpire's decision", whatever that means.
If you want specific examples of the appalling treatment of people I can give them, I am loathe to name names as the people involved may well be observers/contributors to this forum and have been hurt enough without dredging up the past.
Posted on 29/09/2009 19:52:10
Hi Rob
(c) "If PS got up and told everyone they must stop all
this "inside trading" (my words, but you know what I mean), don't you
think that this is a dictators role? I would imagine he would then have
people on his back saying that he is trying to control peoples lives,
and he is Hilter, the Rci are conrol freaks, etc...etc...etc (I think
you get my meaning)"
Simon Longfield and other RCI oversight are happy to get up and tell people which concerts they may not attend, which music not to listen to. Church members are often told to disassociate with family members who have left RCI. Various church/young peoples activities are considered compulsory.... there even used to be a curfew imposed on younger people.... So, RCI is happy to impose all these restrictions but you say they should not get involved when church members are getting fleeced.... GIMME A BREAK!
Posted on 28/09/2009 22:02:57
"Flee with great haste from the Churchman who is also a businessman!" St. Jerome.
Why?
Does the bible discourage parishioners from having business dealings with each other? If so what does this say abut Christians?
History would suggest that most churchmen/businessmen types do end up coming unstuck, isn't this simply a black mark against the whole religious edifice and the type of people who crave these positions of spiritual authority?
As for Simon Longfield, his published excuse of "I was too busy preaching the gospel" may cut the mustard with his parishioners but I suspect the courts are not going to buy that for one second.
Posted on 28/09/2009 21:01:01
Agreed, people must be accountable for their choices, however, most of the simpletons in revival organisations (or broader christian groups for that matter) place a huge amount of trust in their leadership on a range of issues. It then follows that leadership/management, particularly those in paid positions have something of a duty to ensure the dealings in their church are legal.
I was always bemused by the hard and fast RCI rule about no financial dealings with other church members.... Doesn't this imply that your fellow church members are not to be trusted. I have financial dealings with all sorts of people and manage to keep it all above board, why cant they?
Posted on 20/09/2009 23:25:13
Hi LSlurper
Given that this is a Revival Churches discussion forum, are you an ex or current revivalist? Whats your story?
Posted on 20/09/2009 22:47:10
Hi Ian
I'd like to be a fly on the wall for that discussion with Cor. You are based up in that neck-of-the-woods I assume. Did you ever visit the Albury RC when it was run by Pastor Bruce Mitchell, I think he has retired now but one of his underlings Bob Angus is still about up there running a Rev Fellowship, I think you might enjoy a chat with him, he was a real revival hard-liner.
I put your answers to my questions about the "anti-alcohol" rant to good use (without revealing my source) as you can imagine, in typical revival fashion, it was not taken under consideration but rather objected to without base.
Posted on 20/09/2009 21:20:22
Hi Tracey
Been out for nearly a decade. My parents and in-laws are still involved so I keep abreast of the various things going on in the church. I am able to have great academic discussions with my old man about it but we always agree to disagree, its not an issue for us though, he can see I am happy.
I guess you can lump the Burketts in with a lot of others whose lives are not the better for being Revivalists. It is interesting that yet another person I liked (david rapley) has moved on. (refer to previous post in response to epi)
Posted on 20/09/2009 21:04:51
Hi Epi
Interesting point - I guess it's about conformity. I found, over the years, that anyone I liked or got along well with ended up leaving. It's only with the benefit of life experience that I realise I am drawn to confident, strong minded people for friendship... it would seem that anyone with those character traits is either moved on for one reason or other or leaves because they see through the Revivalist B.S.
I think it is a fascinating study in group mentality to look at Revival Cults... It would seem to me that the doctrine creates the culture which in turn reinforces the doctrine. For weak people the notion of I am right and everyone else is wrong must be very appealing, particularly at the beginning when most new converts are at a low point in their life.
T
Posted on 20/09/2009 20:06:42
Tracey
From memory Cor was a nasty misogynist with short persons syndrome. I had a bit to do with the Wagga mob when I was a little tacker, I found them all to be strange! I remember a guy called David Raply(sp?) What happened to the Burketts post Revival?
T
Posted on 20/09/2009 19:30:23
Hi Tracey
Did you do your time in the Wagga Revival Centre "under" (so to speak) Cor Smit, with the Burketts as his henchmen?
T
Posted on 15/09/2009 21:40:22
Thanks Ian
It amuses me that a tediously long and poured-over "essay" by a misguided RCI'er was perfectly rebutted in two sentences.
Galien, you may be right, it may be a doctrine of self preservation for RCI hierachy... to my way of thinking most of them would be well served by sitting back and having a glass of red, they all take themselves way to seriously.
Posted on 15/09/2009 18:57:21
Hi Ian and others
Below is a small excerpt from an RCI zealot on a rant about the evils of alcohol. I have pasted the section that rather spuriously deals with Greek translations. If you feel like it, I and perhaps others would like your thoughts on the subject. I would have started a new thread but couldnt work out how to do it.... here it is.
Can the Literal Greek show whether unfermented or fermented wine is indicated,
whenever the word “ WINE’ is used, in the New testament ??
Acts 2
12 And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?
13 Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.
14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:
15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.
Acts 2:13 Literal Greek
13 Others mocking said, of new wine.( Gleúkous ) Full, These men are
2087 1161 <1315 a > 3004 3754 1098 3325 9999
Gleúkous NT:1099; sweet wine, i.e. (prop.) must (fresh juice), but used of the more saccharine (and therefore highly inebriating) fermented wine:
Luke 1
13 But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John.
14 And thou shalt have joy and gladness; and many shall rejoice at his birth.
15 For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.
16 And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God.
Luke 1, 15- Literal Greek:
He shall be For great in the sight of the Lord, and wine ( onion / oinos ) nor strong drink ( síkera ); neither shall drink .
John 2
10 And saith unto him, Every man at the beginning good wine; doth set forth and when have well drunk, then that which is worse: but thou hast kept the good wine ( kalón onion ) until now.
1 Timmothy 5
23 Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities.
1 Timmothy 5 - Literal Greek:
Meekéti hudropótei allá oínoo olígoo chroó diá tón stómachon kaí tás puknás sou astheneías
NT:3631 oinos, oinou, = wine
Conclusions regarding the Greek words used, so far.
“Gleukos” refers to HIGHLY INTOXICATIONG FERMENTED WINE.
“Oinos” refers to the mildly fermented, non-intoxicating
“Wine of the day,”- used as a general drinking beverage.
Posted on 24/08/2009 17:08:31
Hi Ian,
Would you please define "Salvation". What do you interpret that word to mean?
Tommo
Posted on 13/08/2009 00:08:04
Ahhh, got it.
I agree, work out 10% of average national salary and multiply it by the number of regular members and you've got yourself a nice little earner. The more people with lots of money, the more the top dog's make... the fly in the ointment is that people who make lots of money are often above average intelligence and don't get sucked into cults like revival. Never-the-less, the Longfield clan live fairly high on the hog
Posted on 12/08/2009 23:51:58
Groagan
Pretty hard for someone not in tune with sts, thou's and therefore's to understand what you are getting at. I haven't had to endure Dickensian English for years now, care to make your point a bit clearer.
Posted on 12/08/2009 23:37:14
Hi again Galien
That is exactly what I am talking about, Ghastly human behaviour, driven by oversight and perpetuated by members. How dare they keep a pedophile and his behaviour from you all, just disgusting.
Holding on to friendships within the cult seems to be a common reason people stay, that I can understand, it's a hard one to start again but time heals that problem. Those so-called friends show their true colours when you leave and one is better off without them.
Shoes,
Thanks for praying for me... I am a happy soul not looking for anything.. I like to visit this forum to read others stories and joust with Ian occasionally... I also like to belt the odd revivalist over the head too, I admit to finding it cathartic on a slow news day.
Posted on 12/08/2009 22:05:09
Hi Galien
I think I got off lightly, truth is I never really bought into it... I was forced to go until I was old enough to say.... this is bullshit and I am out of here. When I left, my wife and I pretty much just looked at each other and laughed....sometimes now we talk about it and wonder what our parents were thinking.
I am still fascinated by the hold such a cult can have over people, It is hard for me to get a handle on why people stay.. it seems so obviously wrong and unhealthy... I mean, take the so-called spirituality away and put the human behaviour under the microscope and even a moderately balanced person should run a mile.
