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Title: Which one of the following statements is false?
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MothandRust
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Rank:Old Forum Fogey

Score: 32740
Registered: 27/02/2004

(Date Posted:22/04/2007 09:04:12)

This question was asked on another forum, so far, it has generated 120 responses (some of them laboriously long) but so far not one straight answer, so I will try it here, and see if I can get one. Which one of the following statements is false? 1) God is omnipotent. 2) God could not free the Jews in Exodus, without killing children.

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“The mystery of the beginning of all things is insoluble by us; and I for one must be content to remain an agnostic” - Darwin

mf doom
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1#



Rank:Poster Venti I

Score:6090
Registered: 13/03/2005


(Date Posted:25/05/2007 03:20:00)

my guess:

if
2) = true
then
1) = not true

and vice versa

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if it gives you joy, enjoy! life aint pretty without it
Anonymous
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2#



Registered: 06/04/2001


(Date Posted:01/06/2007 07:44:20)

Reply to : MothandRust
Thisquestion was asked on another forum, so far, it has generated 120 responses (some of them laboriously long) but so far not one straight answer, so I will try it here, and see if I can get one.Which one of the following statements is false?1) God is omnipotent.2) God could not free the Jews in Exodus, without killing children.
1) is true and 2) God did not kill the children .............................
MothandRust
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3#



Rank:Old Forum Fogey

Score:32740
Registered: 27/02/2004


(Date Posted:01/06/2007 10:49:27)

Reply to : Anonymous
1) is true and 2) God did not kill the children .............................

That's not what I asked in the second statement.............

Are you saying a mafia Godfather is innocent when he sends someone else to do the killing for him?

And the god of the O.T. ordered the deaths of children more than once. Do you deny that? Let me know.

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“The mystery of the beginning of all things is insoluble by us; and I for one must be content to remain an agnostic” - Darwin
MothandRust
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4#



Rank:Old Forum Fogey

Score:32740
Registered: 27/02/2004


(Date Posted:02/06/2007 03:07:07)

Reply to : Brolga
Not quite sure your motive for this question,

It's a conundrum I picked up in another forum and it generated some interesting responses. I thought I'd throw the bone here and see if anyone had some interesting insights as to which one of the following statements is false. Are they both true? are they both false? The idea is to generate thought.

a) So far anonymous has said that God did not kill children, but that is not scripturally correct. In Numbers 16: 41-49 God opened up cracks in the earth so that  two of the leaders, their families and possessions fell into the cracks. God then closed the earth so that the victims were buried alive and perished. Later, God burned alive the remaining leaders (and probably their wives and children). There are many other verses that show God had no problem slaying infants with his own word.

b) mfdoom says that God could have freed the Jews without destroying the first born of every family in the nation. So why didn't he? They were innocent and had loving parents, even if a number of them, but not all, were perhaps tyrannical.

c) Brolga, you give a definition of omnipotency and agree that god shouldn't directly kill children but you believe an answer to this horrifying question is not presently available to us. You suggest that Christians should just walk in faith despite the baby killing tendencies of that god. You think that the Jesus/God of the current world is perhaps different from the one that reigned just over 2000 years ago? Is Jesus not equal to god yet is the same yesterday, today, forever, but not 2000 years ago?

Which one of the following statements is false?
1) God is omnipotent.
2) God could not free the Jews in Exodus, without killing children.

--------------------------------------------------------------
“The mystery of the beginning of all things is insoluble by us; and I for one must be content to remain an agnostic” - Darwin
RF_on_the_edge
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5#



Rank:Regular Poster

Score:3180
Registered: 12/03/2007


(Date Posted:02/06/2007 03:51:01)

Reply to : MothandRust

Put 100 Christians in a room and you'll probably get 2-300 different answers. As is my wont I'm not going to try to be definitive. But ... as has been alluded, the question as framed doesn't get to the guts of the issue. It's a false dichotomy. For example, as was alluded to somewhere there's option 3:

3) God is omnipotent, but chose to kill (directly or indirectly) the children

And then there's point 4:

4) the bible uses the analogy of God as a potter and people as clay, so who are we to question (rather than seek to understand) God's motives or revelation of Himself

... not to mention the various others

But you've no doubt heard all this before. Personally, I think that if someone really wants to get some (human) wisdom on this they need to do the hard yards of reading some theology.

BTW Brolga (and many ex RF'rs)
The bible actually seems to present Jesus as "Yahweh in the flesh", and the NT as a continuation of the OT. When we do some reading we find that the idea that "Yahweh of the old testament is far different than Jesus of the new testament" seems to come from corruption of (parts of) the church as it lost contact with it's Jewish roots and came under gentile (Hellenic?) philosophical influence.

 


 
Anonymous
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6#



Registered: 06/04/2001


(Date Posted:02/06/2007 03:53:00)

Hi

Thanks for thought generating topics...as my thoughts have been elsewhere for 17 years during my CAI phase..Im really enjoying some critical thinking ....well, to the topic, my view is simple..

God certainly did kill the innocents according to the Bible, not only children but just about anyone who stood in his way really. Christians complain about the Jihad doctrine of the Islamic faith, but to me the whole Old Testament was one big Jihad. Whoever stood in the way of the Israelites got smashed. Did God change his nature in new testament times..not according to those who quote scriptures like Jesus( = God) the same, yesterday, today and forever.

Brolga, with regards to your comment that we just dont know the answer to these sorts of things and just have to accept that God is as he is and knows what he is doing, well, I for one just cant stomach that anymore. It is exactly this MASSIVE ambiguity in the Bible that causes cults like the RCI./CAI to surface and be able to justofy what they believe.

Well I wont go on as this rant probably belongs in another thread..just trying to work it all out!

bb

 
MothandRust