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dogmafree
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1# |
Rank:Poster Venti II
Score:7240
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21/02/2006
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(Date Posted:27/06/2007 08:58:43)
To those of you have your thoughts trained in theology..........
Have you looked into teachings and concepts that would generally be called dharma?
I offer this link as a fairly neutral explanation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dharma
Do you see these teachings as heretical to Christian teachings, complimentary, contradictory, what??????
Do you feel it is balanced to spent enormous energies studying biblical and christian history and theology without at least considering these teachings? (Or am I wrong, and are theology students actually introduced to a broader range of teachings than I suppose they are)?
Dog.
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"for there is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so" Shakespeare (Hamlet, Act 2, Scene 2)
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dogmafree
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2# |
Rank:Poster Venti II
Score:7240
Registered:
21/02/2006
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(Date Posted:27/06/2007 09:58:18)
Reply to : SOTT1
Reply to : dogmafreeDog,Why? Why would aChristiantheologian concern him/herself with Eastern concepts including Dharma?
Ian, because there is a great deal of insight contained therein, that casts light upon the human condition, our common struggles and questions, our hopes and questions about life etc.
How would doing so better inform him or her regarding the nature of the Judeo-Christian God?
Because the God you refer to is supposedly in close relationship with all of creation. Surely, considering the observations of mankind about the order of the universe and our part in it is directly relevent. To dismiss any such teachings without consideration is bigotry and not at all indicative of an exploration into truth.
Or the Judeo-Christian Scripture? Or the Judeo-Christian ethical system?
Because it is a valuable cross-reference to those things. Being narrow-minded does not make ones appreciation of these things very fruitful.
Personally, I don't view theology as some sort of abstract discipline which exists for its own sake. Theology to me, as a Christian theologian, has a very definite goal: a closer apprehension of the nature and attributes of the Christian God whom I serve.
Fair enough. So, do you discount any other model of God (and the universe) than the Christian God, and reject all other views of God as nonsense? If so, what makes your model more valid than the others?
What you suggest has less to do with theology than it has to do with the philosophy of religion.Blessings,Ian
You probably are right there, Ian. It is more a philosophical question, but valid nevertheless!
Blessings to you too, Ian.
Dog.
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"for there is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so" Shakespeare (Hamlet, Act 2, Scene 2)
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dogmafree
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3# |
Rank:Poster Venti II
Score:7240
Registered:
21/02/2006
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(Date Posted:27/06/2007 15:47:09)
Ian,
I can think of no greater example of the saying 'strain at a gnat and swallow a camel' than your position!
For you to postulate about being correct in your beliefs, and declare that others are 'deficient' whilst acknowledging that you have never looked into them is pure arrogant poppycock!
Many of these teachings are clearly accessible, simple to grasp, easy to comprehend and offer a great deal of wisdom, insight and understanding into life and such. Millions of people have embraced these teachings and practices because they are so practical and beneficial, and they make sense. On the other hand, the Christian bible presents a God that is ambiguous and contradictory. We read about people who are condemned to a fiery pit because someone ate an apple. A whole heap of really incredible stuff that rival any fairy story. Then a really good guy came along, and was sadistically tortured and crucified to appease some god (that is supposed to be compassionate and loving  ) to save us all. But he apparently failed miserably despite suffering a lot of shit he didn't deserve, because most people are still going to the pit. (And that's the good news!!!)
Then after he developed a following of people because he supposedly came back to life, a whole bunch of guys wrote books that everyone took and interpreted into a thousand and one different twisted religions. Millions of folk were tortured because of there fighting and differing beliefs around the crucified guy, and a bunch of cults further ruined the lives of a whole lot more, along with a couple of millenia of holy wars. But that's OK because he said he'd come back and sort out the mess. Well actually he's overdue, but don't worry about that.
So, to try and cut through all the crap, and decipher all the ambiguous mixed up text attributed to the christ guy, they made a thousand and one theological colleges to try and make sense of the whole deal. And after immersing themselves for endless years in these colleges, they come out and declare that the answer to the big riddle is that everyone is wrong (no, deficient) except for the guy we haven't seen for 2 thousand years.
STRAINING AT A GNAT and SWALLOWING A CAMEL
Ian you smack of 'the pot calling the kettle black' when you continue to condescend to people because they haven't bothered to study or research to the extend you have, yet all along, you adhere to an illogical set of beliefs while saying that other beliefs are deficient. Beliefs that you have never yourself bothered to look into to compare with others you have buried yourself in.
Narrow-minded, bigoted and arrogant hardly begins to describe your outlook.
Actually you represent YOUR god quite well!
Dog.
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"for there is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so" Shakespeare (Hamlet, Act 2, Scene 2)
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MothandRust
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4# |
Rank:Old Forum Fogey
Score:32520
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(Date Posted:27/06/2007 18:05:40)
Reply to : dogmafree
We read about people who are condemned to a fiery pit because someone ate an apple. A whole heap of really incredible stuff that rival any fairy story.
Hey Brolga, I think it's a healthy thing to check outside the bible. Many of us were born into the belief that it's the be and end all of morality and truth, but unless we have some idea of alternatives then we're pretty ignorant I think. I think the christian lifestyle can make life less complicated. I agree, it's a lifestyle that works as long as you don't get 'culty' or 'zealouty'. I think there are many buddhists who also testify to loving their way of life.
Wow Dog, there's a venting. Ian's 'matter-of-factly' way of writing really gets on people's goats. I'd much prefer people just argued with his theology than his attitude. That, or present a philosophy they think is better and more logical maybe.
You know, if there's one thing I think I've studied comprehensively and with decent exegesis is that the bible doesn't measure up to the idea of hell that many christians subscribe to. Dante's version of hell if stirred up with the bible metaphors make for a very illogical doctrine. I'm gonna put the universalist hat back on for a while. Much better fit than the atheist hat... I may have to eat that hat one day.
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“The mystery of the beginning of all things is insoluble by us; and I for one must be content to remain an agnostic” - Darwin
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dogmafree
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5# |
Rank:Poster Venti II
Score:7240
Registered:
21/02/2006
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(Date Posted:27/06/2007 22:43:12)
Reply to : Brolga
Why is it, that mankind in general,is more inclined to believe everything else written or saidoutside of the bible than the bible itself? I for one, find that the bible gives the most accurate perspectiveand answers, than any other scource avaliable, that really works in one's life, if you follow it's teachings. All other just seem to be phylosophical ideasand thoughts of man without real evidence to back it up. Of course we have to take it (bible)in the context of what it is telling us, rather than reading our ownideas into it.Brolga
Hi there brolga,
I'm curious about some of your statements and reasonings!
You suggest that you have read and heard of other philosophical concepts, and make comparisons between these with your appreciation of the bible. Can I ask just what you have looked into? Have you looked deeply into these things, or was it a casual exploration?
And what is the evidence you speak of. You assert that all other ideas have no evidence, and imply that the bible does. I'd be interested to hear what evidence you feel backs up the bible! You do make very broad-sweeping generalisations. Can you give an example of a specific philosophical idea of man that you have explored, and how it was found wanting? Of course there are many, but to suggest they are all valueless or less helpful than the bible is (in my mind) rather astonishing.
If I can assume to be able to answer your opening question;
I'd say that there are many, many teachings that are truly wise, practical, in touch with contemporary society and issues, and offer real-world help and solutions to the questions and needs of those people. These mostly offer insights and empathy into our circumstances, before leading us into paths that make life better or more meaningful.
The bible (by comparison) is vague, contradictory, ambiguous, rascist and sexist, and condemnational for starters. Sure yes, there are a lot of really wonderful teachings too, (mostly those of Jesus) but really, so much of it is irrelevant, being written in a totally different time and place, and modern society has evolved to update much of it. By todays standards of censorship, if we turned the bible into an accurately graphic movie, we couldn't allow our children to watch it, because of the grossly dangerous and disturbing concepts it contains, and the horrors and violence (in many cases condoned by god BTW).
There are many cases of dysfunctional & damaging behaviour being taught and practiced by folk based upon scripture. One that I see frequently is the intolerance shown to anybody that is not doing things 'there way', to family breakdowns, depression due to religious oppression, etc, etc, etc.
Then there are countless cases we read on this forum of lives shipwrecked, all whilst living within a regime of dedicated bible-following believers. It is a convenient cop-out to say that all these cases were just people going astray and not reading it properly. IF THE BOOK WAS CLEARER, they would not be able to misconstrue it so completely! The fact that the book has failed miserably in providing a clear direction to enjoy a happy, fulfilling, fruitful life to the masses is painfully obvious!
Dog.
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"for there is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so" Shakespeare (Hamlet, Act 2, Scene 2)
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