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Lahad
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1# |
Rank:Member IV
Score:1530
Registered:
06/04/2003
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(Date Posted:04/07/2007 19:54:02)
Reply to : dogmafree
A copy of Ian's statement to Moth in the 'bereaved' thread...........[If it comes down to following 'blindly', as you put it, then the Jesus of Scripture is apparently no more real to you than are the characters in Grimm's fairytales. What does that suggest about 'relationship'? ]OK, this comment has me thinking and asking more 'hairy' questions..........I (like moth and many others) have found that despite spending many years in a life dedicated to a christian 'walk' (going to church frequently, reading the bible, immersing myself in a christian social environment, eschewing worldly stuff, being as good as I can, praying and evangelizing etc) that a living Jesus has failed to become manifestly evident in my life.Whilst I have been greatly inspired by Jesus at times, and had a number of lovely warm, glowy feelings when in prayer etc, I
Well repentance is the adjustment control that brings the telescope into focus. The relationship with Jesus is mega tangible and very very available. Yep I have now on a number of occasions heard the audible voice of God, been absolutely overwhelmed by his AWESOME love. Been to Heaven by an out of body experience. Had angels speak to me but hey I could go on and on but you have to ask yourself a very serious question: "How much do I want to know Jesus?" Look repentance takes you through the outer courts into the Holiest of All and repentance will bring an immediate response from the one called along side to help: The Person of the Holy Spirit. Don't follow a Revival Fellowship formula, get into your secret place and simply repent and have a meeting with the Holy Spirit.
John 14:21: " They who have my commandments and keep them are those who love me, and those who love me will be loved by my Father, and I will love them and reveal myself to them.
reveal - εμφανισω - make apparent - capable of being seen, visible (from Bauers Lexicon) and where this used in John 14:22 " to lay open to view, make visible.
Lahad
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dogmafree
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2# |
Rank:Poster Venti II
Score:7240
Registered:
21/02/2006
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(Date Posted:04/07/2007 21:22:45)
Hi Lahad, thanks for sharing that.
Actually, your description of being 'overwhelmed by the love of god' reminds me of two specific occasions where I had experiences that are perhaps similar.
The first was within about a week of my conversion to christianity in 1983. I was sitting reading the bible alone at home and I had a spontaneous, powerful experience of being flooded with an amazing feeling of love. I firmly attributed this as being a kind of affirmation from god of him having chosen me, and him showing me his love. Around that time also, I had a kind of lucid dream where a couple of phrases of specific words came to me. I was waking from a sleep and it was almost as though the words woke me. I wouldn't say they were an audible voice, but seemed like an entity within me giving me a message of affirmation. They were so vivid, that I got up and wrote the words down.
With both of these experiences, I can see now that I interpreted them as experiences validating my new 'relationship' with god.
Yet, if you watch the Youtube video near the bottom of this thread.... http://www.aimoo.com/forum/postview.cfm?id=443300&CategoryID=148064&startcat=1&ThreadID=2835423
the one about the neuro-scientist with the 'god helmet', you can perhaps see that such experiences are not unique to those in a god relationship. Instead, the mind can be induced to experience all sorts of highly lucid scenes that are very real to those that have them. It doesn't necessarily prove that those experiences are indicative of some ultimate truth.
In fact, soon after I left the RF in 2000, I had another experience of vastly greater impact, that eclipsed anything that I had ever known before or since. I had what is known as a Kundalini awakening that lasted several minutes. It was like an overwhelming intense orgasm of my whole being, and had me electrified and bathing in a state of loving compassion. Words hardly come close to conveying the power of this experience. At that time, I had never heard of the kundalini, and had no idea what was happening. I have since googled and found a lot of info about variations of this experience. And then, the more we look into virtually any culture, there are stories and reports of some kind of similar experiences and all sorts of means to induce them.
So, my conclusion might be that as powerful and real as your experiences were Lahad, they are not unique to a Christ relationship, and no more tangible than many other genuine experiences that might be considered by some as pagan or even occultic.
NOTE: I should acknowledge that this thread is perhaps just my take on the same theme that Bindi started in her 'alien abduction' thread. The mind is a fertile ground and all sorts of transcendant states may arise there. The danger can be when we subscribe to some rigid dogma, and interprete our personal experiences like this as absolute confirmation of some sovereign truth.
Dog.
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"for there is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so" Shakespeare (Hamlet, Act 2, Scene 2)
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Lahad
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3# |
Rank:Member IV
Score:1530
Registered:
06/04/2003
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(Date Posted:05/07/2007 06:10:47)
Let me explain it like this. The most profound time I heard the audible voice of God. I was alone in my loungeroom and without any expectation, the Holy Spirit came upon my person in power. I was immediately taken from my body and I went immediately to Heaven. What I saw there was beyond capability of being described but most importantly Jesus spoke to me. He actually shouted at me in a very loud voice and He said " I am coming back" The shout was so loud that it was almost deafening and if every electronic power amplifier on earth was turned right up full blast loud, it wouldn't match the decibels of God when He shouts.... So this revelation has shown me three things 1) Jesus is real 2) Jesus is coming back and 3) there is an existance that completely transcends this mortal existance that we live in now. And this existance that transcends the mortal is eternal. Now a revelation of this sort of magnitude does not in any way make me any more spiritual than what Sott has shared with you above and in fact I would rather envy Sotts position because as I write this to you in trembling, I am in the realization that one day Jesus will hold me personally accountable for the message He imparted to me. Have I been faithful to that message ??
Lahad
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RF_on_the_edge
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4# |
Rank:Regular Poster
Score:3180
Registered:
12/03/2007
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(Date Posted:05/07/2007 08:57:52)
Reply to : SOTT1
I'll bite. I'm curious about your response to Lahad's claimed experiences.
Here's why I'm skeptical of your claims. First, you claim to have heard the audible voice of God, not just once, mind you, no, but several times. That puts you in the same category as the apostle Paul. Next, you claim to have been transported to heaven, where you 'saw' many wondrous things. That also puts you in the same category as the apostle Paul. And to top matters further, you claim to have been directly ministered to by angels, physically. Guess what? 'Yep', we see you alongside the apostle Paul again. You've claimed the trifecta, so why not go for the whole shebang? Have you raised the dead, too?
Would it be accurate to rephrase this as: you're skeptical because Lahad's claimed experiences would put him on a par with Paul who was himself on a par with the Twelve? (And the Twelve plus Paul had a unique role in establishing the Christian covenant?)
Sorry, bro', but as much as I like you, I simply don't believe you.
Why don't you believe him? (I'm happy to believe him.) Reading between the lines, I'm presuming that you have a biblical basis for believing that such experiences are not for today, or else very, very , very rare. Is that the reason? Is there something else? If there's biblical reasoning for the disbelief, please point me to the reasoning.
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MothandRust
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5# |
Rank:Old Forum Fogey
Score:32520
Registered:
27/02/2004
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(Date Posted:05/07/2007 09:14:29)
Reply to : Lahad
Let me explain it like this. The most profound time I heard the audible voice of God. I was alone in my loungeroom and without any expectation, the Holy Spirit came upon my person in power. I was immediately taken from my body and I went immediately to Heaven. What I saw there was beyond capability of being described but most importantly Jesus spoke to me. He actually shouted at me in a very loud voiceand He said " I am coming back" The shout was so loud that it was almost deafening and if every electronic power amplifier on earth was turned right upfull blast loud, it wouldn't match the decibels of God when He shouts.... So this revelation has shown me three things 1) Jesus is real 2) Jesus is coming back and 3) there is an existance that completely transcends this mortal existance that we live in now. And this existance that transcends the mortal is
So this is the mega tangible experience? Makes the speaking in tongues 'evidence' sound pretty pathetic. I think it only fair that all christians get the grand tour of heaven when they enter into the club. No respector of persons? pfft... sounds like special treatment to me and I'm seriously thinking of sending a letter of complain off to management.
It's 'Jack and the Beanstalk' stories like this that make so many Christian testimonies come across as fairytales. I'm actually quite sorry to offend you with what must seem like gross ignorance on my part, but I have to stand up for rationalists everywhere and say 'bullsit' mate. Absolute bullshit. My sister tells pretty much the same story word for word and I've heard it from many a christian who are either seeking attention or are experiencing some sort of mental delusion akin to people who are swept up by aliens into a mothership for poking and prodding. My sister was able to put some of the 'experience' into words. She said she saw mostly built white mansions and streets of glowing gold.
I'm wondering why we need mansions for the spiritual bodies? Will there be ensuites for spiritual toiletry, and will the gold streets be a bit slippery? And why gold? That much gold will make it less valued and just not as practical as bitumen.
Now no doubt you're going to get your back up and you may even suggest as you have recently that 'I' seek professional mental help, but it's not me that is getting visions via supermen with wings. I do find it quite fascinating, but I think you would do mankind a big favour by humbly admitting that your sense of reality has been warped by conscious lucid dreaming or some lie that you want to believe so much that you're willing to stand by it whole-heartedly.
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“The mystery of the beginning of all things is insoluble by us; and I for one must be content to remain an agnostic” - Darwin
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