Got something to debate about? Something new? Im open to discussion and would welcome a friendly but fiery debate! lol.. Get those thought juices a-runnin! C'mon! Someone start something!

Bindi

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Got something to debate about? Something new? Im open to discussion and would welcome a friendly but fiery debate! lol.. Get those thought juices a-runnin! C'mon! Someone start something!Bindi

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Glad you asked. Religious debates seem to be a hot topic lately for a few different reasons.

1. The Youtube blasphemy challenge
2. Best selling books such as Dawkins' "The God Delusion" and Christopher Hitchinson's "God is Not Great"
3. Kirk bloody Cameron and his challenge to debate the proof of god without using faith or the bible... he failed, but here's the first part of the debate.

You can find the following parts of the debate on youtube

Here's a response to the debate which had some very interesting points to make:

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Reply to : bindiGot something to debate about? Something new? Im open to discussion and would welcome a friendly but fiery debate! lol.. Get those thought juices a-runnin! C'mon! Someone start something!BindiGlad you asked. Religious debates seem to be a hot topic lately for a few different reasons.The Youtube blasphemy challengeBest selling books such as Dawkins' "The God Delusion" and Christopher Hitchinson's "God is Not Great"Kirk bloody Cameron and his challenge to debate the proof of god without using faith or the bible... he failed, but here's the first part of the debate.

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Hey moth , havnt looked at the you tube thing however who decided that he failed the debate....You ???????? or is that the considered oppinion of other atheist who choose not to believe anyway?

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I'm sure all sides were unconvinced by each other and no one was going to concede, but that wasn't the intention. Officially they failed the debate because their challenge was to prove god absolutely without using the bible... 5 minutes into the debate they started quoting the ten commandments (which is in the bible) to prove their theory that humans need a god given morality list... as if no one knew adultery was bad before Moses told them.

So no, it wasn't me?????????? who called it a loss. Both sides made mistakes, but Kirk and Ray were caught out in a few logical arguments that had them sitting in awkward silence. The full version on 'Nightline's' website showed all of that in it's glory, but the edited version that went free to air was spun doctored in the Christian's favour. I've watched all versions and all interviews with all the debators pre and post the debate -  it's quite entertaining.

Now of course faith doesn't call for logic and reason, but that was what they claimed they could do - prove god exists with absolute scientific evidence without using faith or the bible to back them up - a big gauntlet thrown in the first place, but they gave it a shot... then got red-faced. They officially lost the debate, using debate rules, but I think their goal was mainly to send their 'turn-or-burn' gospel to a mass media, and they were happy with that. The actual unedited version has been downloaded approx 300 000 times now, so I"m glad to see that also.

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Reply to : earth5Hey moth , havnt looked at the you tube thing however who decided that he failed the debate....You ???????? or is that the considered oppinion of other atheist who choose not to believe anyway?I'm sure all sides were unconvinced by each other and no one was going to concede, but that wasn't the intention. Officially they failed the debate because their challenge was to prove god absolutelywithoutusing the bible... 5 minutes into the debate they started quoting the ten commandments (which is in the bible) to prove their theory that humans need a god given morality list... as if no one knew adultery was bad before Moses told them.So no, it wasn't me?????????? who called it a loss. Both sides made mistakes, but Kirk and Ray were caught

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Cool thanks for you reply appreciatte your honesty moth

earth5

HERES AN INTERESTING DEBATE QUESTION:

Now seeing we are in the year 2007, what have all the Revival Centres done with all those GODS GREAT WEEK CALENDARS...lol

You know the ones...

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Yeah I had one of them, carefully mounted on a backboard, and I crafted a leather frame around it.Had to subtley disguise the cross in the middle coz crosses were out. I gave mine to a revver.

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Whats interesting is we are well past 2000 (6,000 years) so obviously they area dud item now for a revivalist?

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Actually the God's Great Week idea probably fell in a heap sometime between 1993 and 1998 (date for JC 's birth range b/n 8 and 3 BC). Some RF'rs are crazy enough to say the last 2 thousand years dates from his crucifixion, despite that contradicting the whole structure of the original argument, and despite that being pointed out to them.

But what about this for a "debate" topic, particularly for the Logical Positivists amongst us ...

Propositions can be meaningful only if they meet one of the following two conditions:
1) the truth claim is abstract reasoning such as a mathematical equation, or a definition; or
2) the truth claim can be verified empirically through one or more of the five senses

Why is this statement meaningless? (Hint: Consider the law of non-contradiction.)

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Reply to : dogmafreeYeah I had one of them, carefully mounted on a backboard, and I crafted a leather frame around it.Had to subtley disguise the cross in the middle coz crosses were out. I gave mine to a revver.Whats interesting is we are well past 2000 (6,000 years) so obviously they area dud item now for a revivalist?

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WELLLLL....

Brad Smith of Brisbane says....

All sorts of crap... but here are some of my favourite particular pieces of crap from this brilliant but misaligned guy.

Jesus gave the parable of the Samaritan who paid two pennies for two days stay... a day is a thousand years as we know, and therefore we have two thousand years from the time he gave us his spirit. so... approx 2033?

The generation from 1917 is actually a 120 year period seeing as 120 is the length of time a generation was at the time of that writing. The Bible Numerics expert, Brad Smith, also says that if you add up the letters in the Hebrew word 'generation' you get 120... therefore the time runs out at 1917 + 120 = 2037. So, 2037 is the time to set your watches to... of course those days will be cut short eh? Keep 'em guessing.

why does toast fall butter side down?

Why is something you are looking for on the bottom of the pile?

Really profound questions, really!!! :-)

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why does toast fall butter side down?Why is something you are looking for on the bottom of the pile?Really profound questions, really!!! :-)

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Welcome littlesis,

It's like this you see - it's always on the bottom of the pile cos if it was on the top, you wouldn't have to look for it, you'd have seen it easily LOL 

It kind of reminds me of RF - I often thought  that something was missing but wasn't sure what, or that I was just missing the point in most of  the talks I heard - when in fact, they were usually pointless points.

Dunno why toast falls butter side down - I'll have to think deeply on that one!

Love, Urchin

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why does toast fall butter side down?Why is something you are looking for on the bottom of the pile?Really profound questions, really!!! :-)

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Actually, the question is more profound than you might care to think. The truth is that toasted butter doesn't always fall the buttered side down (Click here for Mythbusters fair tests) but it certainly does seem to fall that way because of the emotions evoked when it does. Much in the same way that the more you're in a hurry, the slower the vehicle ahead seems to be travelling... or the grocery checkout queue, or the line at McDonalds etc.

The profound part is that this is entirely the way that prayer works: The more you pray, the greater the chances are that some situations will result in they way in which you wanted them to. Therefore, the times when life falls buttered side up make it seem like those particular prayers are being answered. To further the belief, it is often said that when life lands your toast buttered side down... well, that's the way god wanted it anyway. It's sort of win win for god there... except for the times when the toast lands on small children and kills them. That's usually our fault for being born into sin and crap.

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The profound part is that this is entirely the way that prayer works: The more you pray, the greater the chances are that some situations will result in they way in which you wanted them to. Therefore, the times when life falls buttered side up make it seem like those particular prayers are being answered. To further the belief, it is often said that when life lands your toast buttered side down... well, that's the way god wanted it anyway. It's sort of win win for god there... except for the times when the toast lands on small children and kills them. That's usually our fault for being born into sin and crap.

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Aaaah Mothy, If only I had your wisdom

Know what I reckon ? Buttered side up or down doesn't matter -  you gotta chuck it anyway cos it's been on the floor! LOL

Can I ask a personal question Mothy? Why are you so 'down' on God, the poor old bloke ! Has he hurt you in some way (not being sarcastic here, just asking out of genuine interest) It seems that you blame him for everything that goes wrong and yet do you even really believe in Him ?

Urch

Don't you realise that MothandRust got all of his wisdom from "F Troop". His frothing at the mouth is more from drinking out of the bath tub rather than being rabid.

Anyone can quote stupidity and make it sound semi-educated. Too put it cruder......turds sometimes float to the top but eventually sink to the bottom and are flushed away.

"When the egg fall on the rock, then the egg will break. But if the rock fall on the egg, then the egg will break. But whether the egg fall on the rock or the rock fall on the egg, it sure ain't gonna be good for the egg"

"When eagle have tail of beaver, him fly very high, but build lousy dam"

Both "F Troop" Classics for  MothandRust's education.

Why are you so 'down' on God, the poor old bloke !

I personalise god as a metaphor for 'life' I suppose. Much in the same way a sailor would personalise a boat by naming her and calling her 'she'. "Aye, she be a good ship, but she don' like a goin at full throttle", that sort of thing. Or the way a sailor would personalise the sea: "Aye, the sea's a fickle mistress and who can tame her?"

Has he hurt you in some way (not being sarcastic here, just asking out of genuine interest)

I don't actually believe god is a sentient personality therefore I don't believe he could have hurt me in any way. I believe the belief in God, can be a very bad thing for some people... especially if you were born in some parts of the middle East and your god would have you be a suicide bomber.

I'm sure your god is much nicer, even though atrocities are done in his name by zealous believers - all deviations of the Christian God and therefore gods of parallel realities, I suppose. ie. The Jehovah Witness god allows people to die for lack of blood transfusions, the god of some fundamentalists would let a mother die rather than a foetus, the god of Some U.S. bible belt freaks wish death upon homosexuals, the god of Revival doesn't acknowledge you unless you speak in gibberish, the god of hell believers where most of his creation was created only to end up being tortured for eternity.

I also think I have been hurt by a belief in the Revival God, but we're all the sum total of all our trials and tribuations. That makes me the lovable rogue I am. Hey anonymouse 29/05?

Reply to : Anonymous 29/05/2007 05:28:33 PM

Don't you realise that MothandRust got all of his wisdom from "F Troop".

Actually everything I've learnt comes from M.A.S.H., Buffy and Star Trek, and seventeen years in Revival. I'm old enough to remember "F-Troop" and its characters but not old enough for storylines and content.

Anyone can quote stupidity and make it sound semi-educated. Too put it cruder......turds sometimes float to the top but eventually sink to the bottom and are flushed away.

Could you maybe do me the honour of rebutting the buttered toast analogy? I think you missed the point, but if you want my educated opinion on prayer and its relation to how toasted bread rolls with gravity then, yeah, I haven't got any scientific data other than the definite laws of probability and chaos clustering effects which come into play. I think the analogy has some merit... but yeah, I get what you mean. I'll take the flushing when it comes like a man... like a poo man... like KENNY perhaps. I liked that guy.

"When the egg fall on the rock, then the egg will break. But if the rock fall on the egg, then the egg will break. But whether the egg fall on the rock or the rock fall on the egg, it sure ain't gonna be good for the egg"

And you have a problem with my buttered toast analogy?

"When eagle have tail of beaver, him fly very high, but build lousy dam"

Who is this? Confucius?

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I also think I have been hurt by a belief in the Revival God, but we're all the sum total of all our trials and tribuations. That makes me the lovable rogue I am.

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Yeah, well you certainly are a lovable rogue Mothman  - even God loves ya  LOL

Urch

Buffy ? MothandTRust ? Buffy ? Now I know you are jusy stirring ! Or are you ? You are the first and I hope the last, man I have come into contact with that has openly admits that he likes Buffy. But, after reading your posts.....I guess it's not so unexpected.....I bet you like Oprah too. Are you a member of the Democrats and drive a Volvo and have a jacket with leather elbow patches too ? Middle aged and have an earing and a pony tail ? You drink wine and know all the terminolgy ?

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Buffy ? MothandTRust ? Buffy ? Now I know you are jusy stirring ! Or are you ? You are the first and I hope the last, man I have come into contact with that has openly admitsthat helikes Buffy.

Is this a repressed fear of homosexuals that's making you somehow hope to avoid men who enjoy Buffy?

But, after reading your posts.....I guess it's not so unexpected.....I bet you like Oprah too.

Oprah is annoying and her 'Secret' Sucks more than religion... actually strike that, it is religion.

Are you a member of the Democrats and drive a Volvo and have a jacket with leather elbow patches too ? Middle aged and have an earring and a pony tail ? You drink wine and know all the terminology ?

Don't take a job as a pshycoanalysist or criminal profiler, but I appreciate your did. I hate Volvos, my only jacket is completely leather, I'm 35, I've never had an earring or a pony tail and I don't even drink wine.... what terminology?

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Stirring about Buffy? Heaven forbid. Buffy and Angel were at the height of pop culture and was an entertaining romp written by Joss Wheden. I'm a proud fan and yes male? It can be a little embarrassing to admit just how many books and articles you have read about the television show, but I find many of the unlearned didn't take it seriously because of the title "Buffy the Vampire Slayer." The title is a clever oxymoron... She a chosen one to save the world and she has the strength and wisdom passed down through the ages... and her name is Buffy (that's comedy)

If you try to put your enthusiasm into words, people look at you funny. Unless they are one of the lucky ones who have actually seen the show, and then their eyes light up with glee.

As one critic put it, "Buffy" is the most religious show on TV, a "secular universe saturated with grace." There are many spiritual metaphors concerning the slayer's personal spirituality, and the spirituality of the "Scooby Gang", to an examination of what could be called the show's prophetic themes: saving the world and deliverance from evil. This about pop culture, but it's not "pop" religion - eternal subjects.  Buffy can be examined as a self-sacrificing savior; as can her catchphrase 'death is a gift'; the power of friendship; and the necessity of going through negative emotions.

"Buffy is a Christ figure, but only insofar as she is constantly averting the apocalypse through self-sacrifice. On Buffy, people atone for their own sins. Redemption is hard work and it us up to us. Redemption is a process requiring action; words are no enough. There's no salvation by grace in the Buffyverse. Angel and other characters find salvation only in work, self-sacrifice, and courageous choices."

"Buffy is all about confronting our dark sides and learning to live comfortably--or at least co-exist nonviolently--with our monster selves. Many people would rather deny their dark shadow, pretend it isn't there. But ignoring it entirely, according to the show, is a dangerous as allowing it to rule our lives. As Willow learns she doesn't have to be a bigger, badder badass than the source of all badness. She needs to control the darkness so it does not control her. In the end she discovers that it's enough just to be Willow, with all of her complexiities, all of her darkness, and her much stonger goodness." (pages 117-118)

This is as workable and humane a defintion of "repentance" as I've ever encountered.

Well, I could go on and on about buff, but I won't. All I can say is that it's a good pop-cultural way of sorting through all sorts of spiritual odds and ends to find what is good and beautiful.

But yeah... why would you need a bible when you have this list?

Everything I've learned I learnt from "Buffy The Vampire Slayer":

1. TV is the idiot box. The computer is the good box.
2. Testosterone is the great equalizer; it turns all men into morons.
3. The hardest thing in this world is to live in it.
4. Variety is the spice of bad.
5. Blood is life.  It's what makes you warm, makes you hard, makes you other than dead.
6. Don't eat the principal.
7. Strong is fighting. It's hard and it's painful and it's every day, but it's what we have to do.
8. Love makes you do the wacky.
9. Always carry a beeper in case the apocalypse comes.
10. A good day to break up with someone is any day but Valentine's Day or your wedding day.
11. The world is what it is. We fight. We die. Wishing doesn't change that.
12. Be careful what you wish for. And whom you make wishes to.
13. There comes a time when you either have to move out of your parents' basement or buy yourself a Klingon costume and just go with it.
14. Live in the now.
15. Seize the moment, 'cause tomorrow you might be dead.
16. Embrace the pain, spank your inner moppet, whatever. But get over it or pretty soon you won't have the friends you have now.
17. There is no problem that cannot be solved by chocolate.
18. Home schooling: it's not just for scary religious people anymore.
19. All men are beasts.
20. Want. Take. Have.
21. Sarcasm is an end in itself.
22. Stalking a girl is not a turn-on.
23. Beer is bad. And also foamy.
24. Magic and medicine don't mix.
25. There's nothing like getting your ass kicked to make your ass hurt.
26. People in love are always a little crazy. And a little dangerous.
27. There are a lot of different kinds of families.
28. It's not always about you. Unless you're MothandRust.
29. Find out the returns and exchanges policy on all gifts.
30. Tell people you love them over and over until it makes everyone uncomfortable, just in case.
31. Life is like becoming vampire: it's a whole big sucking thing.
32. The geeks shall inherit the earth. Or possibly conquer it.
33. In life you can either do things the hard way or...actually, there's just the hard way.
34. Smart chicks are hot.
35. Sometimes life is one big scavenger hunt.
36. It is a statistical impossibility for a teenage girl to unplug a phone.
37. Schools are just factories, spewing out mindless little automatons... Who go on to be very valuable and productive members of society and you should go.
38. Never kiss your best friend. (Exemption for impending death situations.)
39. Hell hath no fury as a woman scorned. No, really.
40. They don't make angry mobs like they used to.
41. No matter how good it sounds, a robot is not a good substitute for a real relationship.
42. Tact is just not saying true stuff.
43. Saying "as long as nothing bad happens" is the ultimate jinx.
44. Society has rules and boundaries and an endzone.
45. Everyone has an evil twin.
46. Chicks really dig that billowy-coat-king-of-pain thing.
47. Vengeance is not justice.
48. You always hurt the ones you love.
49. Life's a show and we all play our part.
50. Dancing and songs don't always lead to hugs and puppies.
51. Witty repartee will throw off your enemies.
52. Life's not a song. Life isn't bliss. Life is just this: it's living.
53. Always laugh in the face of danger. And then hide until it goes away.
54. Everyone should get a chance to watch and mock and laugh.
55. Logic has no place in a rant.
56. Men like sports. Men watch the action movie. They eat of the beef and enjoy to look at the bosoms.
57. Graduation is a pointless ceremony where you sit around and listen to boring speeches till you get a little piece of paper that says you graduated, which you already know.
58. The "he started it" defense only works in six-year-old court.
59. The earth never opens up and swallows you when you want it to.
60. To forgive is an act of compassion.  It's not done because people deserve it.  It's done because they need it.
61. Some lies are necessary.
62. Loneliness is about the scariest thing there is.
63. There are three kinds of people that no one understands: geniuses, madmen, and guys that mumble.
64. Bruises fade but cowardice has an unlimited shelf life.
65. When you leave someone at the alter, it's really hard to go back to dating her.
66. Lesbians are really less about the hating of men and more about the girl-on-girl action.
67. Sometimes the most adult thing you can do is ask for help when you need it.
68. It is sometimes possible to save the world with just words, love, and a yellow crayon.
69. Love is pain. The slayer forges strength from pain. Love, give, forgive, risk the pain.
70. There's only one thing on this earth more powerful than evil. And that's us.
71. You think you know. What's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.

Reply to : MothandRust

I left off my list ....... You humour yourself (in more ways than one I fear) and you take the bait easily. ...... I do wish I could catch fish that easily.

Your answers from now on I will deem as "reBuffs". I told my work colleague about you and Buffy..... you made his day.

I am not homophobic and besides what has the Simpsons father (Homer) got to do with it anyway, or were you referring to some other Oddity or perhaps Oddysee of Homer?

Reply to : MothandRust

I left off my list ....... You humour yourself (in more ways than one I fear) and you take the bait easily. ...... I do wish I could catch fish that easily.

Your answers from now on I will deem as "reBuffs". I told my work colleague about you and Buffy..... you made his day.

I am not homophobic and besides what has the Simpsons father (Homer) got to do with it anyway, or were you referring to some other Oddity or perhaps Oddysee of Homer?

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HELLO MAILBOY!!! Nice to have you back.

Reply to : MothandRustI left off my list ....... You humour yourself (in more ways than one I fear) and you take the bait easily.

Uh-huh... yep, I'm a complete slut.. and love to hear myself type. Touch typing is my only skill - I think - and I love to practice it. Plus it inspires me to throw something onto the blog, where you've been quoted now (fyi).

 ...... I do wish I could catch fish that easily.Your answers from now on I will deem as "reBuffs". I told my work colleague about you and Buffy.....you made his day.

Glad to have spread some joy.

I am not homophobic

Good to hear. I just thought it weird that you hoped never to meet another male who enjoys Buffy. Great actors, good comedy, cute girls, compelling story arcs, I really could go on, but I think I should stop and leave it for the blog.

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Buffy ? MothandTRust ? Buffy ? Now I know you are jusy stirring ! Or are you ? You are the first and I hope the last, man I have come into contact with that has openly admitsthat helikes Buffy. But, after reading your posts.....I guess it's not so unexpected.....I bet you like Oprah too. Are you a member of the Democrats and drive a Volvo and have a jacket with leather elbow patches too ? Middle aged and have an earing and a pony tail ? You drink wine and know all the terminolgy ?

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i know pleny of guys that watched buffy and angel... sure alot of them dont admit it but if you got the whole box set its kinda hard to deny lol

an mothy- i love the list of things you learnt from buffy, but you forgot one- you can fight monsters in high heals.... hell you can do anything in them lmao

I used to be a fan of buffy to she was a babe

earth5

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Buffy ? MothandTRust ? Buffy ?

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Moth and TRUST??

There is no historical reference to Jesus' life, death or the crucifixion―nothing at all. John E. Remsburg, in his classic book The Christ: A Critical Review and Analysis of the Evidence of His Existence ¹ lists the following contemporary historians/writers who lived during the time, or within a century after the time, that Jesus was supposed to have lived:

Apollonius Persius                                   Appian Petronius
Arrian Phaedrus                                      Aulus Gellius Philo-Judaeus
Columella Phlegon                                  Damis Pliny the Elder
Dio Chrysostom Pliny the Younger     Dion Pruseus Plutarch
Epictetus Pompon Mela                         Favorinus Ptolemy
Florus Lucius Quintilian                       Hermogones Quintius Curtius
Josephus Seneca                                      Justus of Tiberius Silius Italicus
Juvenal Statius                                        Lucanus Suetonius
Lucian Tacitus                                         Lysias Theon of Smyran
Martial Valerius Flaccus                       Paterculus Valerius Maximus
Pausanias
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According to Remsburg, "Enough of the writings of the authors named in the foregoing list remains to form a library. Yet in this mass of Jewish and Pagan literature, aside from two forged passages in the works of a Jewish author, and two disputed passages in the works of Roman writers, there is to be found no mention of Jesus Christ." Nor, we may add, do any of these authors make note of the Disciples or Apostles; increasing the embarrassment from the silence of history concerning the foundation of Christianity. In other words, the only information of the life of Jesus comes from Christian believers.

Logic would dictate that if all the miracles which Jesus performed or surrounded him:

1. Being born of a virgin mother;

2. Three Magi following the brightest star forever to see the demigod;

3. The slaying of the innocent babies;

4. Raising the dead, healing the blind and lame;

4. Having the sky turn to blackness when Jesus died;

5. Earthquakes in the region;

6. The dead Jewish saints coming out of their graves going to Jerusalem; and

7. The Resurrection.

that at least one of these world headline news events would have at least a small mention by at least one of the foregoing historian and writers. But, NO, they are totally silent! 

Only Christian writers wrote about this. Do you think they were biased? Were the stories true or did these writers just continue the myth? Were they trying to promote a new religion, based upon Paul using the Jesus' myth? 

And so the fiction continues to this day. Christian apologist Josh McDowell, in his book, Evidence That Demands a Verdict is a book full of falsehoods, which attempts to masquerade as "documented historical fact" and rumors are passed off as "Bible Truth." McDowell had to revise his thesis several times before publishing it.  It seems some of his "Evidence" was not of good report. His arguments were weak, at best. So many Christians, especially pastors and ministers will make the claim that Jesus was either a "liar, lunatic or lord. Unfortunately that list ignores the most likely possibility ―"Fictional Character."

Pastors today, quote that statement whenever they talk to a person who disbelieves in Jesus. Once I remember that my wife's pastor made the same assertion, "Was Jesus a fraud, a liar, a lunatic?" Isn't it strange that they all forget that even Jesus' direct family thought Jesus was mad? And Mary, his mother never thought of him as "devine." 

ABC News, and Peter Jennngs could not go far enough in their presentation a few years ago of the Historical Jesus. Jennings presentation did not convince his audience without any benefit of doubt that Jesus existed, other than in mythical form.  Dr. James Kennedy, of Orlando, Fla. (The famous Presbyterian minister who several Doctorate degrees in Theology and former aid to Billy Grahams) also, could not come up with any real evidence on his TV show to refute Peter Jennings...or others from Oxford University on the lack of historical evidence.   

Evangelical Christians will not accept real proof, for they feel the professors at Oxford and anywhere else who claim Jesus did not exist are liberals or an atheist of sorts.

The reasoning of the Jew is that given the complete lack of historical evidence for Jesus he most probably did not exist. Christians have said, ?OK...let's see how consistent you are in the application of that reasoning." They will then ask the Jew to provide for him historical evidence for the existence of selected characters in the Hebrew Scriptures.

In the above scenario, the Christian hasn't denied anything hence hasn't compromised their position, but only tries to show that the argument of the Jew compromises his position or commits him to a logical fallacy.  Consider these 2 claims - either:

 1. The Jew is able to provide historical evidence for the existence of those selected characters in his Bible. OR,
 2. The Jew is unable to provide historical evidence for the existence of those selected characters in his Bible.

If  (1) then the Jew's position remains strong.
If (2) then the Jew must concede that by the self same reasoning he applied to Jesus those selected characters also most probably did not exist.

Ah, but Christians forget that they have already agreed with the Hebrew Bible that the episodes, which are told in Hebrew Bible, actually happened. That is why an interpreted version of the Hebrew Bible is located at the front of their bible for reference and authority. So the Hebrew Bible is immune to certain counter arguments that their Bible is still subject to. In other words, Jews do not have to defend their Bible because Christianity has already said it is Holy. It cannot be partly Holy - if so, which parts are holy and which parts are fiction? And who decides? No, it is all Holy, from God.

Those 21 great writers of the Greco-Roman world, whose combined work would fill a library did not write or allude to any thesis that god became man, walked the earth, died and was resurrected, and etc. There is not a single third party historical witness for confirmation, and not one single mention of a god walking the earth in any of the volumes of the combined work from the great writers of the period.  

Again, I restate the obvious, yet in this mass of literature, "aside from two forged passages in the works of a Jewish author, and two disputed passages in the works of Roman writers, there is to be found no mention of Jesus Christ." Nor, do any of these authors make note of the Disciples or Apostles; increasing the embarrassment from the silence of history concerning the foundation of Christianity. In other words, the only information on the life of Jesus comes from Christian believers.

This alone should make anyone think twice before swallowing―hook, line and sinker―the Christian dead-man god myth.

 FOOTNOTE:

1. The Christ: A Critical Review and Analysis of the Evidence of His Existence, John E. Remsburg, The Truth Seeker Company, NY, pp. 24-25),

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Got something to debate about? Something new? Im open to discussion and would welcome a friendly but fiery debate! lol.. Get those thought juices a-runnin! C'mon! Someone start something!Bindi

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Hey bind,

I'm still waiting for the stimulating debate -so far we've heard about buttered toast, Buffy and someone giving Moth a hard time!  Come on, is this the best we can come up with? It's almost like sitting through a Revival meeting again, and we all know how interesting that was ! LOL

Noticed It's gone kind of quiet lately ?

Urch