dogmafree
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1#
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Rank:Poster Venti II
Score:8300
Posts:355
Registered:21/02/2006
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(Date Posted:24/06/2007 03:15:37)
OK I'll fess up.............it was me! I had nothin to do one day, and I thought, "I wonder what I could make for fun"? 
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"for there is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so" Shakespeare (Hamlet, Act 2, Scene 2)
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MothandRust
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2#
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Rank:Ghost in the machine
Score:34610
Posts:1585
Registered:27/02/2004
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(Date Posted:24/06/2007 05:25:59)
This is the Andromeda Galaxy - it looks a lot like our own. Not that I've ever stepped back far enough to check out their similarities but there are many many more just like it to show that even our galaxy is just one collection of spinning matter in what is an immeasurable expanse of space and 'stuff'. And the interesting thing about our Milky Way galaxy (named after the famous chocolate) is that it's not actually big... it seems big because we're so small, but it is not huge, it's not immense and it may or may not be infinite. The incredible amount of galaxies that make up what we can see of our universe may in fact be just one cloud amongst many universes, for all we know.
These steller bodies are moving and colliding and collapsing and there's evidence to suggest that this particular universe (perhaps like all the others) are expanding and collapsing and have been doing so for billions and billions of years, and perhaps have been doing so forever. There's no need to mystify the idea of time, because before we were intelligent enough to acknowledge and measure the movement of heavenly bodies we were happy to hunt by day, sleep by night, and die when we got too old to pump blood through our brains. Eternity isn't a supernatural concept best left for gods to calculate. The universe simply was and is and always will be... no matter how many pigs fart methane into the atmosphere of our little blue green orb.
Douglas Adams mused that the universe is so big and so randomly chaotic that the chances are that somewhere somehow there is vegetation or lifeforms growing that could be useful to any interstellar hitchhiker. One planet somewhere surely has shifting spanners growing from trees and animals that could easily be used as mattresses. I think it's extraordinary enough that this planet was lucky enough to have a temporary run of life on it long enough for it's inhabitants to design and use a shifting spanner. When you consider the incredible numbers of planets spiraling and circling throughout this vast cosmos you must entertain the thought that for some bursts of time a planet will be in the right place with the right conditions to allow moss to gather on it.
Now, if I were lucky enough to have been born into a planet that had the 'golden' measurements of being close enough to a sun, and protected by various larger planets around it, I'd feel very fortunate, and I do. This particular planet probably isn't the first to have encountered such idyllic conditions but you have to stand in awe of the probability factors involved because you happen to be on it. Of course it seems like someone created it only because you aren't one of the impossible inhabitants that couldn't have possibly lived on the multi-billion other planets that can't sustain life.
You're bloody lucky to be alive and I seriously don't blame anyone for inventing a god to praise to. Every culture we know of usually does. It's perfectly natural and normal to sing to the sky in appreciation, because most of the people we share the planet with don't seem to really appreciate existence enough to really marvel at it with the wide-eyed wonder it deserves.
Many people I've spoken to recently say that there must be a god, because the scenery here is bloody tremendous and a lot of female boobs look really really good. But this planet actually looks like crap compared to watching the Wallom beasts swimming through the molten mountains of Somtranus V in the Andromeda galaxy. We have no basis of comparison and of course every type of vegetation filled crevasse looks quite interesting. The rock and continents have been shifting and eroding for billions of years to make many varied and interesting formations. It's a weather beaten planet that has evolved wildlife and vegetation over an unbelievable amount of time. It's when we try to fit it into the mythical six days and six thousand years of bible time that everything looks like it's science fiction.
And boobs look wondrous because if our programming didn't allow that then we would have died off ages ago. Of course boobs don't look appealing to all mankind, but that's ok... there's enough of us who do to keep the population rolling along until we collide with another planet and simply cease to be. Somewhere, sometime, another species will come into being that appreciates the landscape around them and may even have mammary glands that the other gender finds appealing.
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Be nice, for everyone that you meet is fighting a harder battle - Anita Roddick
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RF_on_the_edge
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3#
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Rank:Regular Poster
Score:3180
Posts:156
Registered:12/03/2007
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(Date Posted:24/06/2007 17:25:04)
Reply to : MothandRust
The universe simply was and is and always will be...
While modern science, history, geology, biology, physics and textual scholarship fail to convince you that the Bible may be less than reliable, some idiot rolling around on the floor speaking in "tongues" is all the evidence you need to "prove" Christianity.
Cute rave, but OK I'll nibble the bait. I'm probably taking you too seriously, but ... Are you saying that scientific evidence now disproves "big bang" cosmology, or that the evidence now leads to a different model to better explain the data? (I sure would have thought that would be publicised in a way that even I couldn't miss!!  )
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Frank Spike
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4#
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Rank:Member
Score:1060
Posts:50
Registered:15/04/2007
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(Date Posted:25/06/2007 01:27:50)
Reply to : MothandRust
This is the Andromeda Galaxy - it looks a lot like our own. Not that I've ever stepped back far enough to check out their similarities but there are many many more just like it to show that even our galaxy is just one collection of spinning matter in what is an immeasurable expanse of space and 'stuff'. And the interesting thing about our Milky Way galaxy (named after the famous chocolate) is that it's not actually big... it seems big because we're so small, but it is not huge, it's not immense and it may or may not be infinite. The incredible amount of galaxies that make up what we can see of our universe may in fact be just one cloud amongst many univer
AND ALL THE PEOPLE SAID?!
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"Until the philosophy that holds one race superior and another inferior is finally and permanently discredited and abandoned, then everywhere is war"
I"ve seen a lot of strange stuff, but I"ve never seen anything to make me believe there"s one all-powerful force controlling everything. There"s no mystical energy field controls my destiny.?
If there is a God I don"t like him
AND ALL THE PEOPLE SAID
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Frank Spike
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5#
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Rank:Member
Score:1060
Posts:50
Registered:15/04/2007
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(Date Posted:25/06/2007 01:48:34)
Reply to: RF_on_the_edge
Reply to: MothandRust The universe simply was and is and always will be...While modern science, history, geology, biology, physics and textual scholarship fail to convince you that the Bible may be less than reliable, some idiot rolling around on the floor speaking in "tongues" is all the evidence you need to "prove" Christianity. Cute rave, but OK I'll nibble the bait. I'm probably taking you too seriously, but ... Are you saying that scientific evidence now disproves "big bang" cosmology, or that the evidence now leads to different model to better explain the data? (I sure would have thought that would be publicized in a way that even I couldn't miss!!)
Our understanding of the universe this world and everything on it and our understanding of ourselves and our thinking process and our mind is always changing. It's impossible to know everything all at once. "
Example of the cow:
"One person sees a cow the other kills the cow and a third cooks the cow and a forth eats the cow a fifth wears the cow and a six gives the cow away to a mate as a gift. Not to mention each and every step that it takes to make that cow into a pair of boots or a purse or a belt."
And that's just our very simple understanding of a cow and that took thousands of years for just a few cultures that had cows to see.
Now the universe is a little more complicated than a cow.
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"Until the philosophy that holds one race superior and another inferior is finally and permanently discredited and abandoned, then everywhere is war"
I"ve seen a lot of strange stuff, but I"ve never seen anything to make me believe there"s one all-powerful force controlling everything. There"s no mystical energy field controls my destiny.?
If there is a God I don"t like him
AND ALL THE PEOPLE SAID
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MothandRust
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6#
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Rank:Ghost in the machine
Score:34610
Posts:1585
Registered:27/02/2004
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(Date Posted:25/06/2007 02:47:43)
Reply to : RF_on_the_edge
Are you sayingthat scientific evidencenow disproves "big bang" cosmology, or that the evidence now leads to adifferent model to better explain the data? (I sure would have thought that would be publicised in a way that evenIcouldn't miss!!)
Not at all, but there's good reason to think that the big bang is plural and that it will happen again in a long long time and has done many times before. I am saying that science doesn't lend to the idea that there was once nothing and then 'puff' something. The I dream of Jeannie scenario, or god, or magic man scenario just isn't rational. God comes into the picture if you believe there was once nothing and then something, because that's what a book said that was written before toilet paper came out on rolls.
Science has no reason to believe there ever was 'nothing' and I personally find it more believable to think there was always 'something' rather than 'nothing then something'. But as I said in my article, I empathise with people who prefer to believe that a magic man breathed the universe out in a verbal sound 6000 years ago - that's a pretty easy way out, and is much more fun.
The continuously expanding and collapsing universe idea is based on two basic principals:
1. Gravity and attraction are the fundamental forces governing all matter.
2. The amount of matter in the universe is constant.
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Be nice, for everyone that you meet is fighting a harder battle - Anita Roddick
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RF_on_the_edge
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7#
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Rank:Regular Poster
Score:3180
Posts:156
Registered:12/03/2007
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(Date Posted:25/06/2007 03:05:22)
Reply to : Frank Spike
Our understanding of the universe this world and everything on it and our understanding of ourselves and our thinking process and our mind is always changing. It's impossible to know everything all at once. "
Yep ... absolutely agree ... and of course, logico-empirical science is one way we (humans) have developed to help deal with that limitation. (I'd be interested to hear why you believe: "It's impossible to know everything all at once." ? I believe the biblical revelation. Where are you coming from?)
M&R (via his tagline) often seems to claim that "science" supports his assertions. I'm wondering whether there's science to support this assertion that "The universe simply was and is and always will be... " (Or is he sharing an unsubstantiated belief, or is he strirring the possum, or ...?  )
You and I both know that even if the evidence does support the idea that "The universe simply was and is and always will be... ", that would not disprove the existence of the God of the Christian bible, or the God of the Tanach.
PS Thanks for the "lesson of the cow". Personally I think the story of the 7 blind men and the elephant is even more relevant to my question. 
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RF_on_the_edge
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8#
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Rank:Regular Poster
Score:3180
Posts:156
Registered:12/03/2007
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(Date Posted:25/06/2007 03:48:05)
Reply to : MothandRust
The continuously expanding and collapsing universe idea is based on two basic principals:
1. Gravity and attraction are the fundamental forces governing all matter.
2. The amount of matter in the universe is constant.
OK Thanks.
FWIW... Physics has identified "fundamental forces" other than gravity. If memory serves correctly, physicists currently identify four, one of them being gravity, but I'm happy to be corrected. Also, I think you'll find that science says that it's the combined total of matter and energy that's considered constant at this point in the history of the universe (e = mc2, stellar creation of matter and all that).
Not at all, but there's good reason to think that the big bang is plural and that it will happen again in a long long time and has done many times before ...
Science has no reason to believe there ever was 'nothing' ...
My understanding of what I've read of astrophysics is that science currently leads us as far as the singularity that was at the origin of the current "big bang", where there is doubt that the current laws of physics applied. My understanding of what I've read about the philosophy of science is that ideas about anything beyond that singularity are non-scientific speculation. In the language of Karl Popper, as far as I understand, they are not currently disprovable.
... I personally find it more believable to think there was always 'something' rather than 'nothing then something'
Sure, but as far as I can see that's a statement of philosophy, not scientific deduction.
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MothandRust
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9#
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Rank:Ghost in the machine
Score:34610
Posts:1585
Registered:27/02/2004
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(Date Posted:25/06/2007 03:56:47)
Reply to : RF_on_the_edge
Sure, but as far as I can see that's a statement of philosophy, not scientific deduction.
If you like, that's why I said 'personally'.
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Be nice, for everyone that you meet is fighting a harder battle - Anita Roddick
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MothandRust
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10#
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Rank:Ghost in the machine
Score:34610
Posts:1585
Registered:27/02/2004
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(Date Posted:25/06/2007 04:12:01)
Reply to : RF_on_the_edge
M&R (via his tagline) often seems to claim that "science" supports his assertions. I'm wondering whether there's science to support this assertion that "The universe simply was and is and always will be... " (Or is he sharing an unsubstantiated belief, or is he strirring the possum, or ...? )
You and I both know that even if the evidence does support the idea that "The universe simply was and is and always will be... ", that would not disprove the existence of the God of the Christian bible, or the God of the Tanach.
What I'm thinking is that magic doesn't exist. Personal opinion and philosophy granted. Looking at the universe in the simple way in which I have done is looking at it in the same way that if I drop a rock, it never hovers in the air. If you crush it, then the sand will equal the matter it already had, if you melt it, the matter will still be equally proportioned. People can't walk on water and the planet is moving and spinning. I didn't really harbour on the idea that these things disprove god, but they certainly don't disprove my invisible pink unicorn either. I was really throwing an idea out there that it's imaginable that this creation is arguably not actually created. It's just moss gathering on a rolling stone.
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Be nice, for everyone that you meet is fighting a harder battle - Anita Roddick
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RF_on_the_edge
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11#
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Rank:Regular Poster
Score:3180
Posts:156
Registered:12/03/2007
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(Date Posted:25/06/2007 04:12:23)
Reply to : MothandRust
Sure, but as far as I can see that's a statement of philosophy, not scientific deduction.
If you like, that's why I said 'personally'.
Cool. I'll shut up and look for other people's responses.
(I was going to add for the sake of the 'observers' the obvious point that Christians would say that the 'something' that always existed was God.)
Have you read any of Ravi Zacharias' stuff yet? I'd be interested in your overall reaction to 'Can Man Live Without God'. I found it convincing and quite powerful, but I'm already basically a 'convert' to his perspective.
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MothandRust
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12#
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Rank:Ghost in the machine
Score:34610
Posts:1585
Registered:27/02/2004
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(Date Posted:25/06/2007 04:28:48)
Reply to : RF_on_the_edge
Cool. I'll shut up and look for other people's responses.I was going to add for the sake of the 'observers' the obvious point that Christians would say that the 'something' that always existed was God.)
Have you read any of Ravi Zacharias' stuff yet? I'd be interested in your overall reaction to 'Can Man Live Without God'. I found it convincing and quite powerful, but I'm already basically a 'convert' to his perspective.
No worries. I'm not really arguing and I'm hoping not to sound dismissive. I am not 'read up' enough to really go to much further. I was just putting it out there as I see it at the moment. Exploring at bit and seeing what other people think... so thanks for your thoughts and I'll add that book to my list of 'one day reads'... as long as it can be downloaded ;-P
I suppose I could write off the universe as god, but I'd have to say that he is a bit passive, in my opinion.
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Be nice, for everyone that you meet is fighting a harder battle - Anita Roddick
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Frank Spike
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13#
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Rank:Member
Score:1060
Posts:50
Registered:15/04/2007
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(Date Posted:25/06/2007 05:13:51)
Reply to : Frank Spike
Reply to: RF_on_the_edgeReply to: MothandRust The universe simply was and is and always will be...While modern science, history, geology, biology, physics and textual scholarship fail to convince you that the Bible may be less than reliable, some idiot rolling around on the floor speaking in "tongues" is all the evidence you need to "prove" Christianity. Cute rave, but OK I'll nibble the bait. I'm probably taking you too seriously, but ... Are you saying that scientific evidence now disproves "big bang" cosmology, or that the evidence now leads to different model to better explain the data? (I sure would have thought that would be publicized in a way that even I couldn't miss!!)Our understanding of the universe this world and everything on it and our understanding of ourselves and our thinking process and our mind is al
More on the universe
http://viewzone.com/milkyway.html
You should also look into dark matter and dark energy. This will change a lot about what you think about the push and pull of the universe.
And the watchmaker and the watch who made the watchmaker?
Life can be simple if you make it so.
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"Until the philosophy that holds one race superior and another inferior is finally and permanently discredited and abandoned, then everywhere is war"
I"ve seen a lot of strange stuff, but I"ve never seen anything to make me believe there"s one all-powerful force controlling everything. There"s no mystical energy field controls my destiny.?
If there is a God I don"t like him
AND ALL THE PEOPLE SAID
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Frank Spike
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14#
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Rank:Member
Score:1060
Posts:50
Registered:15/04/2007
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(Date Posted:25/06/2007 05:31:21)
AHH the cult of Philosophy.
Yes to answer every question with a ring around the rosie dog chasing it's tail answer to another answer to still the first question. That's fun and all but when this starts it's hard to stop and get boring. Like a roller coaster it has it's ups and down and around and around but it make you sick in the end.
Besides you've learned something about cows that you didn't know before. But how is that possible if you know everything now?
And the elephant story the fan and the snake blah blah blah well I like cows more than elephants.
Yes and who says that there is only one god there are many people who believe that there are many gods and why are they wrong? And why is one story about how god or gods created the universe correct or to be defended or even debated more important than the others are?
It would seem as if we all have some build in personal or groupthink going on that we need to defend something even if we don't believe it.
All I know is that it hurts a lot when a bus hits you.
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"Until the philosophy that holds one race superior and another inferior is finally and permanently discredited and abandoned, then everywhere is war"
I"ve seen a lot of strange stuff, but I"ve never seen anything to make me believe there"s one all-powerful force controlling everything. There"s no mystical energy field controls my destiny.?
If there is a God I don"t like him
AND ALL THE PEOPLE SAID
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RF_on_the_edge
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15#
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Rank:Regular Poster
Score:3180
Posts:156
Registered:12/03/2007
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(Date Posted:25/06/2007 14:51:56)
Reply to : Frank Spike
A few points:
AHH the cult of Philosophy ...
Yes to answer every question with a ring around the rosie dog chasing it's tail answer to another answer to still the first question. That's fun and all but when this starts it's hard to stop and get boring. Like a roller coaster it has it's ups and down and around and around but it make you sick in the end. ...
Yes and who says that there is only one god there are many people who believe that there are many gods and why are they wrong? And why is one story about how god or gods created the universe correct or to be defended or even debated more important than the others are?
Your irony is delicous. You appear to be mocking philosophy initially and then weigh in with some of the philosophical biggies. I doff my hat to your sense of irony!
Besides you've learned something about cows that you didn't know before. But how is that possible if you know everything now?
I said:
Yep ... absolutely agree ... and of course, logico-empirical science is one way we (humans) have developed to help deal with that limitation. (I'd be interested to hear why you believe: "It's impossible to know everything all at once." ? I believe the biblical revelation ... )
In retrospect I was unclear. Sorry. I was saying that I absolutely agree that "It's impossible to know everything all at once". When I said "I believe the biblical revelation" I meant I believed the biblical revelation of my mortality, my finiteness, my position as "clay" relative to God as "potter", my lack of comprehension of the workings of this universe. Further I certainly don't claim to fully comprehend "the biblical revelation". Even in non-biblical matters, although I may know a little about a few things(and even that is subject to review), I know many people who know much more than me about many more things.
And the watchmaker and the watch who made the watchmaker?
That used to bother me too, then someone pointed out to me the difference between the watch (this universe) and the watchmaker (in this case the God of the bible).
In this universe, cause-and-effect is, as far as we can tell, fundamental. It there is an effect, there is a cause. Eg, otherwise scientifically derived laws and models would explain nothing. Another example ... Chaos theory, as I understand it, doesn't say that effects happen at random, rather the chain (or perhaps web) of cause-and-effect is so complicated that our finite human minds can't fully comprehend what's happening and events merely appear random. So, for this universe, it makes sense (is rational) to consider a chain of reasoning which leads back to a "first cause" - What caused this universe? It's absolutely consistent with what we know about the nature of this universe we inhabit.
The God of the bible, however, is presented as being outside this universe (although He is presented as interacting with it). It is simply not reasonable (rational) to assume that the cause-and-effect which is a fundamental observation of this universe must apply in the same way outside it. Therefore it is not reasonable (rational) to assume that a God outside this universe would have to (must) have a "cause" or maker.
The question "Who made the watchmaker?" doesn't require an answer since we cannot assume that cause-and-effect works outside this universe in the same way as it works inside this universe. (Memo to 'observers': cause-and-effect in this universe does cause problems for the idea of pantheism ... )
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Frank Spike
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16#
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Rank:Member
Score:1060
Posts:50
Registered:15/04/2007
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(Date Posted:26/06/2007 04:12:50)
Reply to : RF_on_the_edge
Reply to : Frank SpikeAfew points:AHH the cult of Philosophy ...Yes to answer every question with a ring around the rosie dog chasing it's tail answer to another answer to still the first question. That's fun and all but when this starts it's hard to stop and get boring. Like a roller coaster it has it's ups and down and around and around but it make you sick in the end. ...Yes and who says that there is only one god there are many people who believe that there are many gods and why are they wrong? And why is one story about how god or gods created the universe correct or to be defended or even debated more important than the others are?Your irony is delicous. Youappear to be mocking philosophy initially and then weigh in with some of the philosophical biggies.I doff my
RF it's been fun and I've learned a lot thanks to you and google. But as for all the mumbo jumboing it's taken away my time to look at porn. And besides when I think to hard my brain hurts. So I'll make my statement simple and understandable for most people. "I DON'T BELIEVE IN A GOD I DON'T BELIEVE THAT THERE HAS EVER BEEN A GOD AND THAT THERE HAS NEVER BEEN PROOF OF A GOD" I DO NOT LIKE GREEN EGGS AND HAM! And philosophy it's for high school and first year collage students. I really got tired of it as it goes around and around and around. I think therefore I am there for I think therefore I am etc etc etc. Sure I use it but I don't like to. And if there is a god I don't like him If you can come up with proof that there is a god I will get down on my knees and pray.
Mumbo Jumbo (phrase)
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
For the video game character see Mumbo Jumbo (Banjo-Kazooie).
Look up mumbo jumbo in Wiktionary, the free dictionary.
Mumbo Jumbo or mumbo jumbo is an English phrase or expression that denotes a confusing or meaningless subject. It is often used as humorous expression of criticism of middle-management and civil service non-speak, and of belief in something considered non-existent by the speaker (ghosts, religion etc.).
It was coined during the time when Great Britain was colonizing areas of the globe inhabited by native tribes that practiced mysterious and puzzling rituals which were then called "Mumbo Jumbo", after a supposed idol. One of the sources for the English usage is the Vachel Lindsay poem The Congo, which contains the phrase "Mumbo-Jumbo, God of the Congo". Some believe mumbo jumbo is a translation of the Swahili greeting "Mambo Jambo".[1]
According to the Concise Oxford Dictionary:
Mumbo Jumbo is a noun and is the name of a grotesque idol said to have been worshipped by some tribes. In its figurative sense, Mumbo Jumbo is an object of senseless veneration or a meaningless ritual.
logico-empirical science
People often decide they understand some phenomenon and stop looking for explanations. The search for patterns and regularities is not a trivial intellectual exercise. It is tough. Our understanding of events often has psychological significance for us. That is, we want to be perceived as competent--socially and professionally. By contrast, scientists individually and as a community regard all issues as open. Science has been characterized as logico-empirical. That is, two pillars have defined science: (a) logic or rationality and (b) observation. Scientific theory deals with the logical aspect and research deals with the observational aspect of science.
Pantheism
Pantheism (Greek: πάν ( 'pan' ) = all and θεός ( 'theos' ) = God) literally means "God is All" and "All is God". It is the view that everything is of an all-encompassing immanent abstract God; or that the universe, or nature, and God are equivalent. More detailed definitions tend to emphasize the idea that natural law, existence, and the universe (the sum total of all that is, was, and shall be) is represented or personified in the theological principle of an abstract 'god'.
http://www.pantheism.net/ http://www.pantheism.net/
The major aims of the movement are:
* To promote the values of environmental concern
and human rights.
* To sponsor nature conservation activities and help members to conserve nature
* To make earth-honoring life-affirming naturalistic beliefs widely available as a spiritual option and a rational alternative to traditional religions.
* To build up membership in localities and promote the formation of local groups.
* To create a network of celebrants for nature and life-oriented child dedications, weddings, and funerals.
* To promote an expanding presence for these beliefs and values on the Internet and in other media of all types.
To assist in the research and publication of books and other media related to these beliefs and values.
So please get this taste for fancy out of your system and lets get on with breaking up the cults. K?
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"Until the philosophy that holds one race superior and another inferior is finally and permanently discredited and abandoned, then everywhere is war"
I"ve seen a lot of strange stuff, but I"ve never seen anything to make me believe there"s one all-powerful force controlling everything. There"s no mystical energy field controls my destiny.?
If there is a God I don"t like him
AND ALL THE PEOPLE SAID
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RF_on_the_edge
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17#
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Rank:Regular Poster
Score:3180
Posts:156
Registered:12/03/2007
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(Date Posted:26/06/2007 07:55:12)
Reply to : Frank Spike
If you can come up with proof that there is a god I will get down on my knees and pray.
That's not my goal, but sometimes I do try to provide rational responses to accusations that Christianity is irrational. Based on my experience in the RCI/RF system our audience includes "revers" and "ex-revers" who have never really been exposed to the idea that Christianity can be more than experiential.  My posts partly aim to expose the rationality of Christianity to them.
So please get this taste for fancy out of your system
My "taste for precision" (not saying I achieve it) is apparently being mistaken as a "taste for fancy". 
RF it's been fun and I've learned a lot thanks to you and google. But as for all the mumbo jumboing it's taken away my time to look at porn ... lets get on with breaking up the cults. K?
I've enjoyed the mental exercise too. But ... I wouldn't have been upset if you'd ignored my posts, and you didn't need to go through the cut-and-paste effort of your last post. I was already sure you knew or could find out what I was talking about, and you'd already made the point you thought I was getting "too complicated". Still ... I take your time and effort as a compliment ... though I point out to our readers that there are types of science that have been characterised as other than "logico-empirical". (No doubt you're already aware of that, so you don't need to prove it in another post.  )
Yep .. Life sure is more than this forum
As Douglas Adams would say ... So long and thanks for all the fish! 
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Frank Spike
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18#
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Rank:Member
Score:1060
Posts:50
Registered:15/04/2007
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(Date Posted:27/06/2007 04:42:59)
I'm bored back to looking at porn....I'm now bored with porn what else ya' got?
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"Until the philosophy that holds one race superior and another inferior is finally and permanently discredited and abandoned, then everywhere is war"
I"ve seen a lot of strange stuff, but I"ve never seen anything to make me believe there"s one all-powerful force controlling everything. There"s no mystical energy field controls my destiny.?
If there is a God I don"t like him
AND ALL THE PEOPLE SAID
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Frank Spike
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19#
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Rank:Member
Score:1060
Posts:50
Registered:15/04/2007
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(Date Posted:28/06/2007 07:30:14)
Reply to : Frank Spike
I'm bored back to looking at porn....I'm now bored with porn what else ya' got?
OH MY GOD!!! I've found like the most wonderful like web site that tells the truth as like I want it to be.
http://www.rys2sense.com/anti-neocons/viewtopic.php?t=7516
You've just got to have a look at this fantastis web site and take the time to hear the truth. And please please tell me you side of this story. I'll wait while you watch it.
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"Until the philosophy that holds one race superior and another inferior is finally and permanently discredited and abandoned, then everywhere is war"
I"ve seen a lot of strange stuff, but I"ve never seen anything to make me believe there"s one all-powerful force controlling everything. There"s no mystical energy field controls my destiny.?
If there is a God I don"t like him
AND ALL THE PEOPLE SAID
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