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MothandRust
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Rank:Old Forum Fogey

Score: 32520
Registered: 27/02/2004

(Date Posted:24/06/2007 05:07:54)

Robin Ince on Creationism

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“The mystery of the beginning of all things is insoluble by us; and I for one must be content to remain an agnostic” - Darwin

dogmafree
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1#



Rank:Poster Venti II

Score:7240
Registered: 21/02/2006


(Date Posted:24/06/2007 05:15:37)

OK I'll fess up.............it was me! I had nothin to do one day, and I thought, "I wonder what I could make for fun"?

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"for there is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so" Shakespeare (Hamlet, Act 2, Scene 2)

MothandRust
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2#



Rank:Old Forum Fogey

Score:32520
Registered: 27/02/2004


(Date Posted:24/06/2007 07:25:59)

Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket

This is the Andromeda Galaxy - it looks a lot like our own. Not that I've ever stepped back far enough to check out their similarities but there are many many more just like it to show that even our galaxy is just one collection of spinning matter in what is an immeasurable expanse of space and 'stuff'. And the interesting thing about our Milky Way galaxy (named after the famous chocolate) is that it's not actually big... it seems big because we're so small, but it is not huge, it's not immense and it may or may not be infinite. The incredible amount of galaxies that make up what we can see of our universe may in fact be just one cloud amongst many universes, for all we know.

These steller bodies are moving and colliding and collapsing and there's evidence to suggest that this particular universe (perhaps like all the others) are expanding and collapsing and have been doing so for billions and billions of years, and perhaps have been doing so forever. There's no need to mystify the idea of time, because before we were intelligent enough to acknowledge and measure the movement of heavenly bodies we were happy to hunt by day, sleep by night, and die when we got too old to pump blood through our brains. Eternity isn't a supernatural concept best left for gods to calculate. The universe simply was and is and always will be... no matter how many pigs fart methane into the atmosphere of our little blue green orb.

Douglas Adams mused that the universe is so big and so randomly chaotic that the chances are that somewhere somehow there is vegetation or lifeforms growing that could be useful to any interstellar hitchhiker. One planet somewhere surely has shifting spanners growing from trees and animals that could easily be used as mattresses. I think it's extraordinary enough that this planet was lucky enough to have a temporary run of life on it long enough for it's inhabitants to design and use a shifting spanner. When you consider the incredible numbers of planets spiraling and circling throughout this vast cosmos you must entertain the thought that for some bursts of time a planet will be in the right place with the right conditions to allow moss to gather on it.

Now, if I were lucky enough to have been born into a planet that had the 'golden' measurements of being close enough to a sun, and protected by various larger planets around it, I'd feel very fortunate, and I do. This particular planet probably isn't the first to have encountered such idyllic conditions but you have to stand in awe of the probability factors involved because you happen to be on it. Of course it seems like someone created it only because you aren't one of the impossible inhabitants that couldn't have possibly lived on the multi-billion other planets that can't sustain life.

You're bloody lucky to be alive and I seriously don't blame anyone for inventing a god to praise to. Every culture we know of usually does. It's perfectly natural and normal to sing to the sky in appreciation, because most of the people we share the planet with don't seem to really appreciate existence enough to really marvel at it with the wide-eyed wonder it deserves.

Many people I've spoken to recently say that there must be a god, because the scenery here is bloody tremendous and a lot of female boobs look really really good. But this planet actually looks like crap compared to watching the Wallom beasts swimming through the molten mountains of Somtranus V in the Andromeda galaxy. We have no basis of comparison and of course every type of vegetation filled crevasse looks quite interesting. The rock and continents have been shifting and eroding for billions of years to make many varied and interesting formations. It's a weather beaten planet that has evolved wildlife and vegetation over an unbelievable amount of time. It's when we try to fit it into the mythical six days and six thousand years of bible time that everything looks like it's science fiction.

And boobs look wondrous because if our programming didn't allow that then we would have died off ages ago. Of course boobs don't look appealing to all mankind, but that's ok... there's enough of us who do to keep the population rolling along until we collide with another planet and simply cease to be. Somewhere, sometime, another species will come into being that appreciates the landscape around them and may even have mammary glands that the other gender finds appealing.

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“The mystery of the beginning of all things is insoluble by us; and I for one must be content to remain an agnostic” - Darwin

RF_on_the_edge
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3#



Rank:Regular Poster

Score:3180
Registered: 12/03/2007


(Date Posted:24/06/2007 19:25:04)

Reply to : MothandRust


The universe simply was and is and always will be...

While modern science, history, geology, biology, physics and textual scholarship fail to convince you that the Bible may be less than reliable, some idiot rolling around on the floor speaking in "tongues" is all the evidence you need to "prove" Christianity.


Cute rave, but OK I'll nibble the bait. I'm probably taking you too seriously, but ... Are you saying that scientific evidence now disproves "big bang" cosmology, or that the evidence now leads to a different model to better explain the data? (I sure would have thought that would be publicised in a way that even I couldn't miss!! )

 

Frank Spike
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4#



Rank:Member

Score:1060
Registered: 15/04/2007


(Date Posted:25/06/2007 03:27:50)

Reply to : MothandRust



This is the Andromeda Galaxy - it looks a lot like our own. Not that I've ever stepped back far enough to check out their similarities but there are many many more just like it to show that even our galaxy is just one collection of spinning matter in what is an immeasurable expanse of space and 'stuff'. And the interesting thing about our Milky Way galaxy (named after the famous chocolate) is that it's not actually big... it seems big because we're so small, but it is not huge, it's not immense and it may or may not be infinite. The incredible amount of galaxies that make up what we can see of our universe may in fact be just one cloud amongst many univer



AND ALL THE PEOPLE SAID?!

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"Until the philosophy that holds one race superior and another inferior is finally and permanently discredited and abandoned, then everywhere is war"

I"ve seen a lot of strange stuff, but I"ve never seen anything to make me believe there"s one all-powerful force controlling everything. There"s no mystical energy field controls my destiny.?

If there is a God I don"t like him
AND ALL THE PEOPLE SAID

Frank Spike
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5#



Rank:Member

Score:1060
Registered: 15/04/2007


(Date Posted:25/06/2007 03:48:34)

Reply to: RF_on_the_edge



Reply to: MothandRust The universe simply was and is and always will be...While modern science, history, geology, biology, physics and textual scholarship fail to convince you that the Bible may be less than reliable, some idiot rolling around on the floor speaking in "tongues" is all the evidence you need to "prove" Christianity. Cute rave, but OK I'll nibble the bait. I'm probably taking you too seriously, but ... Are you saying that scientific evidence now disproves "big bang" cosmology, or that the evidence now leads to different model to better explain the data? (I sure would have thought that would be publicized in a way that even I couldn't miss!!)

Our understanding of the universe this world and everything on it and our understanding of ourselves and our thinking process and our mind is always changing. It's impossible to know everything all at once. "

Example of the cow:

"One person sees a cow the other kills the cow and a third cooks the cow and a forth eats the cow a fifth wears the cow and a six gives the cow away to a mate as a gift. Not to mention each and every step that it takes to make that cow into a pair of boots or a purse or a belt."

And that's just our very simple understanding of a cow and that took thousands of years for just a few cultures that had cows to see.

Now the universe is a little more complicated than a cow.

--------------------------------------------------------------
"Until the philosophy that holds one race superior and another inferior is finally and permanently discredited and abandoned, then everywhere is war"

I"ve seen a lot of strange stuff, but I"ve never seen anything to make me believe there"s one all-powerful force controlling everything. There"s no mystical energy field controls my destiny.?

If there is a God I don"t like him
AND ALL THE PEOPLE SAID

MothandRust
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6#