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Metanoian
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251#
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Registered:13/06/2009
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Reply To Luke735
(Date Posted:30/08/2009 19:52:27)
Reply to Luke735 Wow! you guys are really deluded aren't you!
... and Paul didn't write the Book of Jude.
Now can you cut your eisegetical systematic waffle and get to the point .... um do you always play eisegeses when you approach the Bible ??
Metanoian
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Aimoo Team
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Re:For 'Luke', an opportunity.
(Date Posted:30/08/2009 20:16:24)
This message has been deleted due to Termination of Account.
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Didaktikon
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253#
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Rank:Old Forum Fogey
Score:31600
Posts:1517
Registered:29/08/2007
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Reply To Luke735
(Date Posted:30/08/2009 20:19:49)
"Lukie-boy",
Interesting rant. You didn't address any of my points, nor did you introduce anything worthwhile. Typical. In closing, the only thing "comprehensive" about you, is your ignorance.
Ian
(Message edited by Didaktikon On 30/08/2009 20:26:53)
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Vivos voco, mortuos plango
website: www.pleaseconsider.info email: didaktikon@gmail.com
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Metanoian
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254#
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Registered:13/06/2009
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Reply To Seguidor
(Date Posted:30/08/2009 20:26:49)
Reply to Seguidor
Luke,
Your not only a moralist among other things, but completely ignorant of scripture.
Satan uses scripture to try to deceive. Can't you see that your the only one on here that your "father" is deceiving. Lukie's "magnum opus" you might say ....
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Fremde
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255#
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Rank:Regular Member
Score:4470
Posts:219
Registered:19/09/2007
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RE:For 'Luke', an opportunity.
(Date Posted:30/08/2009 20:47:00)
Luke,
You can quote and wrest scripture till the cows come home, but you know well that those around you in Pentecostal and/or Revivalist meetings babble the same thing over, and over, and over, as they did in so called tongues before imagined/fabricated interpretations. It's a con. You can blame Ian, me or whom ever you like, but they or you are not fooling anyone here anymore, and if you sincerely believe, then you are fooling yourself.
A tree is known by its fruit and the ground of the 20th century and now the 21st is covered with the rotten fruit of extortionists, fornicators, adulterers, charlatans and blasphemers in Pentecostal and Revivalist pastoral/eldership positions.
If you lie down with dogs, you get fleas and you keep coming here furiously scratching.
John
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Galien
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256#
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Rank:Poster Venti II
Score:8650
Posts:425
Registered:17/01/2005
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RE:For 'Luke', an opportunity.
(Date Posted:30/08/2009 22:00:11)
Luke or tony or whtever your name is
TO THE FORMER MEMBERS:
To those of you who have been mistreated in your various fellowships I say this. The treatment you received is in the past. You would do well to leave it there. Forgive and move on with your lives. If you need to leave, leave. Seek God for guidance and he will answer you. All you need is Patience and trust in God. He will not forsake you!!! He loves you so much, he died for you!!!
Yes, he does love us and he did die for us. It's a shame we were not seen in such a precious light by the revival oversight. Like Ian, you just don't get it do you? It's nor about forgiving, as much as it is about not letting ourselves be abused again.
People Iike you and Ian don't even recognise the hurt that was done, and is still being done, yet you found it necessary to leave the place. So don't tell me you don't know there is something rotten there, because you do. You know as well as I do that these people don't change, and they are NEVER NEVER wrong.
God may not forsake us mate, but he doesn't seem to place too high a priority on protecting us from those who believe themselves to be our brethren.
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I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day. So there.
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Talmid
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257#
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Rank:Regular Member
Score:4190
Posts:205
Registered:21/04/2008
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Reply to Luke
(Date Posted:30/08/2009 22:05:59)
Hi Luke
How do you Pray in the Holy Ghost Hmmm?
That was a showstopper for me too. Then someone pointed out the obvious. We "pray in the Holy Ghost" in the same way we "walk in the Spirit" and David spoke "in the Spirit". Walking in the Spirit doesn't mean "walking in tongues" so ...
(Message edited by Talmid On 30/08/2009 22:07:14)
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There are 10 kinds of people in the world: those who understand binary and those who don't.
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Metanoian
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258#
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Registered:13/06/2009
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Reply To Galien
(Date Posted:30/08/2009 22:09:09)
Reply to Galien
. Like Ian, you just don't get it do you?
 with Ian is boring - ho hum 
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Didaktikon
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259#
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Rank:Old Forum Fogey
Score:31600
Posts:1517
Registered:29/08/2007
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Reply To Galien
(Date Posted:30/08/2009 22:35:12)
Galien,
You present as being rather like a broken record: "Ian this, Ian that"; blah, blah, blah. Don't you ever stop to wonder why it seems that nobody pays very much in the way of heed to your views? Speaking personally, I'd rather that you became part of the solution, instead of continuing to demonstrate that you are, in fact, part of the general problem (i.e. Revivalist ignorance).
Ian
(Message edited by Didaktikon On 30/08/2009 23:19:49)
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Vivos voco, mortuos plango
website: www.pleaseconsider.info email: didaktikon@gmail.com
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Uncoolman
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260#
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Rank:Regular Rookier
Score:5550
Posts:156
Registered:05/04/2003
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Re:For 'Luke', an opportunity.
(Date Posted:31/08/2009 00:18:33)
Guys and gals, specifically Gal.
Can we cut out the interpersonal punch-outs in the forum and also in the chatbox? I thought it would subside after a few weeks, but you don't seem to show any sign of tapering it off. We all know very clearly how you feel about Ian, and I for one amongst others have heard enough. If you'd like to continue to point out Ian's personality disorders as you see them, then please feel free to use the Private Messaging facility.
If you can't ignore him or abide him, then I think you've said enough.
Unco
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Luke735
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261#
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Registered:11/06/2009
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Reply To Uncoolman
(Date Posted:31/08/2009 06:44:00)
Reply to Uncoolman
Guys and gals, specifically Gal.
Can we cut out the interpersonal punch-outs in the forum and also in the chatbox? I thought it would subside after a few weeks, but you don't seem to show any sign of tapering it off. We all know very clearly how you feel about Ian, and I for one amongst others have heard enough. If you'd like to continue to point out Ian's personality disorders as you see them, then please feel free to use the Private Messaging facility.
If you can't ignore him or abide him, then I think you've said enough.
Unco Well said unco! I do not know anyone of you people on this site. You could be nice people for all I know. None of my coments are personal. Yes I believe that some people (or rather the words some people say) are heretical which makes them false prophets and serpents (in the Biblical sense) I have said for example that Ian is probably a good, well intentioned guy. I know plenty of baptists and most are lovely people. But that is not the point here. Its about what they preach! Jesus is not coming back for "nice" people. He is coming back for "Obedient people" Here's the point... On the fundamentals of the Gospel (as i see them) some on this site oppose them 100% I believe that with EVERYONE who is Born again of the Spirit. they will hear a 'sound" language! most here would say No!I believe Baptism is essential Most here would say NO!I would say that ALL who enter the Rest would speak in tongues most here would say No!On the Day of Pentecost Men and women (Handmaidens) Spoke in Tongues. most here would say No!Simon the sorcerer offered money when he saw the Holy Ghost being poured out. I believe he saw something worth paying for, something outward, Tongues! most here would say No!Cornelius and ALL his house Spoke in Tongues as evidence. I believe it appropriate to expect the same for all to whom I preach. I know that they have recieved the Holy ghost "FOR I HEAR THEM SPEAK WITH TONGUES" most here would say No! Apollos was instructed in the way of the Lord but still needed to Speak in Tongues. I believe this is again significant. most here would say No!John 4 say we MUST WORSHIP IN THE SPIRIT and Corinthians 14:14 says Prayer in the Spirit is Prayer in Tongues. most here would say No!Jesus said in Mark 16 that believers would "Speak in Tongues" most here would say No!When I say that those who oppose these things are going to be in huge trouble when Jesus returns I am actually being loving to do so. This is not personal! Ezekiel 33 say that I will have bloody hands if I fail to Warn you all. Whether or not you heed my warnings is up to you. It doesn't affect me personally. Similarly I especially warn you from listening to Ian because he very much takes the lead in this position. As such he has the greater judgement upon him. Make no mistake mine is a gospel that is confirmed in Power from God with the listed signs following. Think what you will of me and my "preaching" but the bottom line overview is this. The gospel that many of you are falling for is nothing short of " enticing words of man's wisdom"The gospel that I am talking about in in contrast " demonstration of the Spirit and of power"
Call it what you want but here's the facts: I was addicted to drugs, using ~$1100 worth a day in 1990. After asking God to fill me with his Spirit and Speaking in Tongues. I ceased (that very second!) as did 22 of my friends. In the past 19 years I have seen this repeated over and over and over again! I have seen Baptist, Catholics, SDAa, Prespos, Unitings and even JWs leave there " enticing words of man's wisdom" doctrines for the power of the true gospel.
Paint it any colour you like, its still just enpty words that you are following compared with the power of the Spirit that I am.
Why? Because someone somewhere in your fellowship wronged you!
Most of you have not the faintest idea of real hardship.
My God! Look at the world we live in and the suffering.
No wonder when Jesus returns it says...2Th 1:6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you; 2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, 2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: 2Th 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
To you who have put your trust in the "enticing words of man's wisdom"
You had better hope that you have not made a mistake because if you have. Whoe!!
As for me I do all the works that you guys do, help the poor, pray for the sick, Preach Jesus Christ and him crucified. I just don't accept the lukewarm idea that being born agian with the evidence of tongues is an optional extra.
Seriously when Paul said to the Corinthians "If ALL speak in Tongues" why did he say ALL? Hmm
If All couldn't why say ALL?
Oh whats the use!, your minds are made up aren't they? .....Thats right someone hurt your feelings, Some stupid Pastor did the wrong thing!
I have seen friends hang themselves, Shoot themselves and Overdose.
some of you have no idea of "Hurt"
Wake up!
(Message edited by Luke735 On 31/08/2009 06:51:33)
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Fremde
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262#
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Rank:Regular Member
Score:4470
Posts:219
Registered:19/09/2007
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RE:For 'Luke', an opportunity.
(Date Posted:31/08/2009 07:06:59)
Luke,
I think we have got your point, which you make over, and over, and over, and over again. So what are you now going to do? Show Lloyd and Noel you can one up them by repetition so often that we will develop Stockholm Syndrome and become your zombies?
This is not your forum, you have your own, so why not stay there and write real long proof texted scriptures and and at the end of each, the notation "How clever I am, how oooo so spiritual, so ooooo so cosmic.
You forget that we have all seen these endless sliced, diced and julienned ersatz treatises and are sick of them. Rightly divided scripture is edifying, uplifting, efficacious and fruitful. Now I will labour a point, your Revivalist doctrine is of an evil tree that has and always will bring forth evil fruit.
You have said your life is really busy with your "quest". Please go and tilt at those windmills, you have become annoying.
John
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Luke735
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263#
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Registered:11/06/2009
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Reply To Fremde
(Date Posted:31/08/2009 07:11:39)
Reply to Fremde
Luke,
I think we have got your point, which you make over, and over, and over, and over again. So what are you now going to do? Show Lloyd and Noel you can one up them by repetition so often that we will develop Stockholm Syndrome and become your zombies?
This is not your forum, you have your own, so why not stay there and write real long proof texted scriptures and and at the end of each, the notation "How clever I am, how oooo so spiritual, so ooooo so cosmic.
You forget that we have all seen these endless sliced, diced and julienned ersatz treatises and are sick of them. Rightly divided scripture is edifying, uplifting, efficacious and fruitful. Now I will labour a point, your Revivalist doctrine is of an evil tree that has and always will bring forth evil fruit.
You have said your life is really busy with your "quest". Please go and tilt at those windmills, you have become annoying.
John
Okay John B
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MothandRust
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264#
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Rank:Ghost in the machine
Score:34610
Posts:1585
Registered:27/02/2004
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RE:For 'Luke', an opportunity.
(Date Posted:31/08/2009 09:50:49)
Tonyluke I do not know anyone of you people on this site. You could be nice people for all I know.
Imagine that!
None of my coments are personal. Yes I believe that some people (or rather the words some people say) are heretical which makes them false prophets and serpents (in the Biblical sense) I have said for example that Ian is probably a good, well intentioned guy. I know plenty of baptists and most are lovely people. But that is not the point here.
How lovely of you to bless them with your observations!
Its about what they preach! Jesus is not coming back for "nice" people. He is coming back for "Obedient people" Here's the point... On the fundamentals of the Gospel (as i see them) some on this site oppose them 100%
He's coming back for Christians, and Christians with any sense oppose Llyod's doctrine outright due to the many reasons listed within this thread. It just ain't Christian. The fundamentals of the Gospel as you see them are out of order.
I believe that with EVERYONE who is Born again of the Spirit. they will hear a 'sound" language! most here would say No! I believe Baptism is essential Most here would say NO! I would say that ALL who enter the Rest would speak in tongues most here would say No! On the Day of Pentecost Men and women (Handmaidens) Spoke in Tongues. most here would say No! Simon the sorcerer offered money when he saw the Holy Ghost being poured out.
No, tongues, or the versions thereof and interpretations therein that you espouse were not the common factor amongst these incidents. They've all been twisted to align with the ideas of a few nutters who had an idea. There are plenty of essays on this forum that can set you straight on that, should you ever be ready to listen.
This is not personal! Ezekiel 33 say that I will have bloody hands if I fail to Warn you all. Whether or not you heed my warnings is up to you. It doesn't affect me personally. Similarly I especially warn you from listening to Ian because he very much takes the lead in this position.
Most of us have lived a long life already believing Lloyd's doctrine and then saw it crumble under logic and some informed Bible study.
Why? Because someone somewhere in your fellowship wronged you! Most of you have not the faintest idea of real hardship.
You arrogant twat... "Most". You think you're some sort of prophet who takes pride in seeing more hardship than others? As if you had the magic powers to 'see' all. You think you can make these judgements? You believe some naughty pastor was the cause of intelligent people leaving your 'Holy' Revival church. The pastor of the RF I left was pretty much my best friend at the time. It wasn't easy to leave such close friends knowing that I'd not be able to keep company with them. After 17 years I'd come to realise that the belief system and doctrine didn't hold water. I don't think I can handle too many more of these self-righteous ramblings from you. I can only cringe so much.
Oh whats the use!, your minds are made up aren't they? .....Thats right someone hurt your feelings, Some stupid Pastor did the wrong thing! I have seen friends hang themselves, Shoot themselves and Overdose. some of you have no idea of "Hurt" Wake up!
As were our minds 'made up' when we only had the same information and beliefs that you cling onto now.
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I get a sick feeling in my stomach whenever I come back here and find Tonyluke pedaling his wares, and I don't like him at all. Personally, I think he's a low-life in unawares... in his own eyes he believes himself to be righteous and learned and a good ol' boy. I think he's had quite enough rope. I'm hoping he can tie up his loose ends then crawl back to his phony forum at some point.
(Message edited by MothandRust On 31/08/2009 17:25:35)
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Be nice, for everyone that you meet is fighting a harder battle - Anita Roddick
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Episkopeo
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265#
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Rank:Regular Rookier
Score:5700
Posts:267
Registered:30/08/2007
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Re:For 'Luke', an opportunity.
(Date Posted:31/08/2009 12:09:20)
TO THE REVIVALIST PASTORS: To those of you who are current Pastors of churches I say this. Over recent years I notice there has been a trend of Pastors talking to Pastors about people in their churches in such a way that is inappropriate. This is murmuring and being a Pastor does not give you a licence to Murmur! This is the real source of much of your difficulties with your people. You are servants and not Lords over their salvation. Act like a servant and all will benefit. |
Luke, I agree with you on one thing - the above. You're right about this, however what you've noticed 'over recent years' has been a long standing practice in Revivalist groups. According to an ex Rev oversight from way back the 'case studies' have been part of the Revival way of doing things since Lloyd handpicked his first batch of pastors. Epi
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Talmid
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266#
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Rank:Regular Member
Score:4190
Posts:205
Registered:21/04/2008
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Reply to Luke
(Date Posted:31/08/2009 16:43:42)
Luke I'll say two things again.  1) I left RF because I came to see their salvation doctrine is unbiblical and heretical. I have *not* been socially wronged beyond what's normal in human interaction, and of course I've done my fair share of that too. 2) Your focus on Ian is *silly*. In non-pentecostal Christendom your idea of tongues is considered heretical. In the majority of pentecostal Christendom your idea of tongues is considered heretical. In the part of pentecostal Christendom that thinks your take on tongues is right, they almost all think your take on the Godhead is heretical. PS 'All' in 1 Co 14, particulaly in view of 1 Co 12, is hyperbole - your zeal is not "according to knowledge" PPS You might believe things, but when they're not what the *bible* says, I'll keep giving them a miss
(Message edited by Talmid On 31/08/2009 17:25:58)
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There are 10 kinds of people in the world: those who understand binary and those who don't.
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prezy
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267#
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Rank:Regular User
Score:2650
Posts:125
Registered:06/02/2007
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RE:For 'Luke', an opportunity.
(Date Posted:31/08/2009 17:19:23)
TO GALIEN,
In the church I attend over the last 3 years I have been there and from what information i can gather from those that attend or have there is NO ABUSE and never has been in our parish. The love and support shown to us and our disabled child, including financial assistance has been given with kindness and no expectation or conditions put on us. I am very sorry you havnt found anything like it.
TO MOTH AND RUST.
I am not very good at expressing myself, but your comments to tonyluke echo my thoughts perfectly. Thanks for putting into words what I couldn't.
TO UNCOOLMAN
Thanks.
TO IAN.
Hi, I havnt had a chance to further develop our last discussions, but will as soon as possible. Its quite strange that our theme at church and Bible study at the moment is on the same scriptures. My little fellow is going in for surgery today so I will be quite busy. Currently I have him most of the time and my wife works more than I do. Please pray for him, its nothing serious but its always nice to have God's hand on these situations. thanks Rob.
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I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person........
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Didaktikon
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268#
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Rank:Old Forum Fogey
Score:31600
Posts:1517
Registered:29/08/2007
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Reply To Luke735
(Date Posted:31/08/2009 17:41:40)
"Luke,
I do not know anyone of you people on this site. You could be nice people for all I know. None of my coments are personal. Yes I believe that some people (or rather the words some people say) are heretical which makes them false prophets and serpents (in the Biblical sense).
I'd have put things a bit differently. Were I you, I would've stopped at "I do not know..."
I have said for example that Ian is probably a good, well intentioned guy. I know plenty of baptists and most are lovely people. But that is not the point here. Its about what they preach!
Three things to consider: first, I'm not a Baptist. Second, what Christians "preach" is different to what Revivalists "prattle" (the reason being that Christians rely on the Word of the Lord. Revivalists, on the other hand, stick to the Word of the Lloyd). And third, I know plenty of Revivalists too, and I've got to say you present as being overly arrogant and condescending when assessed against the average.
On the fundamentals of the Gospel (as i see them) some on this site oppose them 100%
Yes, but you clearly don't know what the gospel is. My advice, then: try Scripture (it's all there, in black-and-red-and-white).
I believe that with EVERYONE who is Born again of the Spirit. they will hear a 'sound" language! most here would say No!
Because such nonsense simply isn't biblical. The reasons why have been explained to you in detail. You ignore the facts in preference for your Revivalist fantasy; consequently you're not obedient, hence Christ isn't coming back for you.
I believe Baptism is essential Most here would say NO!
Because such nonsense simply isn't
biblical. The reasons why have been explained to you in detail. You
ignore the facts in preference for your Revivalist fantasy;
consequently you're not obedient, hence Christ isn't coming back for you.
I would say that ALL who enter the Rest would speak in tongues most here would say No!
Because such nonsense simply isn't
biblical. The reasons why have been explained to you in detail. You
ignore the facts in preference for your Revivalist fantasy;
consequently you're not obedient, hence Christ isn't coming back for you.
On the Day of Pentecost Men and women (Handmaidens) Spoke in Tongues. most here would say No!
Because such nonsense simply isn't
biblical. The reasons why have been explained to you in detail. You
ignore the facts in preference for your Revivalist fantasy;
consequently you're not obedient, hence Christ isn't coming back for you.
Simon the sorcerer offered money when he saw the Holy Ghost being poured out. I believe he saw something worth paying for, something outward, Tongues! most here would say No!
"Tongues"? Could you please point out for me where the passage itself says that what he saw (note something visible) was your uncritical gibberish? It doesn't, hence I'd suggest that you
ignore the facts in preference for your Revivalist fantasy;
consequently you're not obedient, hence Christ isn't coming back for you.
Cornelius and ALL his house Spoke in Tongues as evidence. I believe it appropriate to expect the same for all to whom I preach. I know that they have recieved the Holy ghost "FOR I HEAR THEM SPEAK WITH TONGUES" most here would say No!
As I've been wont to state over the years, "a text without its context is a pretext for a prooftext". Put simply, there is nothing in Acts 10 which resembles your Revivalist experience, your Revivalist message, or your Revivalist practice. Not a single thing. Ergo, you
ignore the facts in preference for your Revivalist fantasy;
consequently you're not obedient, hence Christ isn't coming back for you.
Apollos was instructed in the way of the Lord but still needed to Speak in Tongues. I believe this is again significant. most here would say No!
Really? Where in Scripture does it state what you presume to be the case with respect to Apollos and "tongues"? I'd suggest that you've invented "facts" in an attempt to shore up your biblically weak Revivalist position; consequently you're not obedient, hence Christ isn't coming back for you.
John 4 say we MUST WORSHIP IN THE SPIRIT and Corinthians 14:14 says Prayer in the Spirit is Prayer in Tongues. most here would say No!
Well, John 4 actually says nothing about "tongues" at all, and 1 Corinthians 14 doesn't state that what you infer is prayer "...in the Spirit" at all. The reasons why have been explained to you in detail. You
ignore the facts in preference for your Revivalist fantasy;
consequently you're not obedient, hence Christ isn't coming back for you.
Jesus said in Mark 16 that believers would "Speak in Tongues" most here would say No!
The passage clearly indicates that Jesus didn't say that all believers would speak in "tongues", just as he didn't say that all believers would give evidence of any of the range of "signs" that the longer ending to the Gospel According to Mark describes. The reasons why have been explained to you in detail. You
ignore the facts in preference for your Revivalist fantasy;
consequently you're not obedient, hence Christ isn't coming back for you.
When I say that those who oppose these things are going to be in huge trouble when Jesus returns I am actually being loving to do so. This is not personal!
Bollocks. You're typical of most Revivalist pastor or pastor-wannabes that I've encountered. When all is said and done it's always personal, as you fellows simply don't like to be told (and shown) that you're completely wrong in what you maintain. It must be some sort of a "pride thing".
Similarly I especially warn you from listening to Ian because he very much takes the lead in this position. As such he has the greater judgement upon him. Make no mistake mine is a gospel that is confirmed in Power from God with the listed signs following. Think what you will of me and my "preaching" but the bottom line overview is this.
I'd suggest that you simply don't like people placing their trust in someone who is clearly capable of providing sound biblical teaching. Does it makes you feel inadequate? Anyway, the only "power" that your false-gospel is capable of generating is the "supernatural" ability to repeat, "scooby dooby dooo" over and over. You don't "preach", you prate; you're clearly incapable of correctly interpreting God's Word for the edification of others, never mind presenting it with anything approaching authority, and you're apparently altogether incapable of convincing people that you've got "goods" worth "buying"!
The gospel that many of you are falling for is nothing short of "enticing words of man's wisdom"
Best that you take that up with Christ and his apostles then, as we Christians preach the self-same message that they left to us.
The gospel that I am talking about in in contrast "demonstration of the Spirit and of power".
*Yawn*.
Call it what you want but here's the facts: I was addicted to drugs, using ~$1100 worth a day in 1990. After asking God to fill me with his Spirit and Speaking in Tongues. I ceased (that very second!) as did 22 of my friends.
Really? Well then, I'm personally acquainted with several lads and lasses who claim exactly the same thing! Less the "tongues" bit, of course.
In the past 19 years I have seen this repeated over and over and over again! I have seen Baptist, Catholics, SDAa, Prespos, Unitings and even JWs leave there "enticing words of man's wisdom" doctrines for the power of the true gospel.
Hmmm. In my 23 years as a Christian, I've seen a few hundred people come to know Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour, and then through naught but the faithful sharing of the gospel and a modicum of personal discipleship. I've also seen a few hundred Revivalists wake up from their spiritual stupor, a large number of whom I've had the honour of introducing to Jesus Christ for the very first time. It seems, then, that the gospel that I "preach" is far more powerful, life transforming and spiritually effectual than is the nonsense that you and your associates prattle on about. For instance, my experience of the average congregation in the Australian RF is of about 22 people (children included). In most of our communities, if you were to say, "Revival Fellowship", the standard response would be, "who?" How remarkably unlike the early Church, who "turned the world upside down" (see Acts 17:6). What's different, do you think?
Paint it any colour you like, its still just enpty words that you are following compared with the power of the Spirit that I am.
If your message is so powerful by comparison, why all the immorality, back-biting, covetousness and so forth that seems to plague your "style" of fellowship? Furthermore, if your message is so powerful by comparison, then why is having absolutely no effect on the broader community? You fellows don't even count for 0.001% of the Australian population!
As for me I do all the works that you guys do, help the poor, pray for the sick, Preach Jesus Christ and him crucified. I just don't accept the lukewarm idea that being born agian with the evidence of tongues is an optional extra.
Being born again isn't an "optional extra". However, your learned and practiced "tongues" delusion doesn't even make it to the lofty heights of being either "optional", or an "extra".
Seriously when Paul said to the Corinthians "If ALL speak in Tongues" why did he say ALL? Hmm
I wouldn't really expect you to understand the Greek literary device called hyperbole, but I'd suggest that you "Google" the word, and so grow a little in knowledge and wisdom. Anyway, I won't deign to respond to the remainder of your self-righteous and arrogant drivel. Enough really is enough. You've been warned, ergo "...your blood be upon your own head" (see Acts 18:6).
Goose.
Ian
(Message edited by Didaktikon On 31/08/2009 19:03:06)
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Vivos voco, mortuos plango
website: www.pleaseconsider.info email: didaktikon@gmail.com
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Aimoo Team
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Re:For 'Luke', an opportunity.
(Date Posted:31/08/2009 19:02:28)
This message has been deleted due to Termination of Account.
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Luke735
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270#
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Registered:11/06/2009
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RE:For 'Luke', an opportunity.
(Date Posted:31/08/2009 19:11:10)
Just for the Record!
Shoes Said: " Despite being challenged to do so several times, he will not make the statement that: If you do not speak in tongues you will not be saved on the day of judgement".
This is because I DO NOT BELIEVE THAT! Tongues is the outward evidence of the Baptism of the Holy Ghost. Without tongues you have NOT recieved, been born of or baptised in the Holy Ghost. With respect to "Judgement day" please read the text below:
Rev 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. Rev 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, Rev 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshiped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
This " First Resurrection" is for the Church, the Body of Christ. ONLY THOSE WHO ARE BORN OF THE SPIRIT (WITH THE EVIDENCE OF SPEAKING IN TONGUES) WILL BE THERE.
Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night forever and ever Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
From verse 12 onwards we see the Second Resurrection spoken of.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Just to summarise: If you do not speak in tongues then how do you know that YOU have recieved the Holy Ghost? I would suggest that you have no basis for this claim.
Without being Born of the Spirit then you will NOT be involved in the first resurrection. You will be therefore judged by your work...Vs 12-14
I cannot say whether you will be saved in this resurrection or not. This is not my place to do that.
This summary is why I cannot and will not presume to say "If you do not speak in tongues you will not be saved" How could anyone know that except God?
What I am saying is that Satan has filled this world with false doctrines on every corner. Just like the Prophets of Baal in Elijah's day. The Christianity that I preach is the God who answers by FIRE! specifically "Tongues of Fire" Acts 2:4 and "The Holy Ghost and FIRE" Matt 3:11
The very fact that most here say it is not essential, is evidence of the influence that Satan and 20 centuries of Compromise have had. The result; the "Luke Warm" Gospel so called promoted By the likes of Ian.
Think about this for a moment. Jesus came and died so that we could have access to the Father through his Spirit. This means that Satan doesn't mind if you go to church, he doesn't if you pray.
What his priority is; is to STOP you from being Born of the Spirit. Now if people are going to seek God and you want to stop them the best way to do this is to make them think that they have recieved that which they seek!
This will do two things:
1) Stop the individual from seeking God (because they already believe they have found him)
2) They would promote this "false doctrine" with all their might. Thus develope a following that caters for the flesh (which would be inviting to the natural man) and give them a sense of Pride. (in their own works)
Hope that explains my position a little better.
PS: In my previous post I am NOT saying I am any better or worse than anyone (in fact I am nothing in myself) But the position you guys find yourself is that you have been duped, hoodwinked, fooled and decieved.
God willing you will find you way back to "Right thinking" Not in the Revival Churches particularly but somewhere healthy.
God Bless
Luke
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Didaktikon
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271#
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Rank:Old Forum Fogey
Score:31600
Posts:1517
Registered:29/08/2007
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Reply To Luke735
(Date Posted:31/08/2009 19:22:45)
"Luke",
Are you thoroughly incapable of saying anything with less than 10,000 words?! I put it to you that given you can't comprehend the straightforward narrative of the Gospels correctly, what on earth gave you the idea that you could understand the apocalyptic and prophetic genres of the Revelation aright?
The simple fact of the matter is this: there is no biblical basis or warrant for your idiosyncratic Revivalist beliefs. What you present as "gospel" didn't even exist prior to the 1920s. These facts have been established over and over; but for whatever reason, you seem blinded to the truth.
Goose.
Ian
(Message edited by Didaktikon On 31/08/2009 19:25:12)
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Vivos voco, mortuos plango
website: www.pleaseconsider.info email: didaktikon@gmail.com
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spitchips
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272#
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Rank:Rookier
Score:1700
Posts:82
Registered:24/10/2008
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Re:For 'Luke', an opportunity.
(Date Posted:31/08/2009 20:22:01)
Hi Prezy I pray 'your little fellow's' surgery went well and he recovers brilliantly. Chips
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Didaktikon
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273#
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Rank:Old Forum Fogey
Score:31600
Posts:1517
Registered:29/08/2007
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Reply To prezy
(Date Posted:31/08/2009 20:57:02)
Hi, Rob.
I'll join with "Chips" and add the little tacker to my prayers. I hope all is, and goes, well.
Blessings,
Ian
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Vivos voco, mortuos plango
website: www.pleaseconsider.info email: didaktikon@gmail.com
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Episkopeo
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274#
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Rank:Regular Rookier
Score:5700
Posts:267
Registered:30/08/2007
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Re:For 'Luke', an opportunity.
(Date Posted:31/08/2009 21:04:35)
Prezy,
I also join with the others in prayer for your little chap.
Epi
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Fremde
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275#
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Rank:Regular Member
Score:4470
Posts:219
Registered:19/09/2007
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RE:For 'Luke', an opportunity.
(Date Posted:31/08/2009 21:21:25)
Prezy,
I have, and will pray to our Father that he heals and restores you little one to you with rejoicing.
Love to you and yours in Christ
John
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Fremde
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276#
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Rank:Regular Member
Score:4470
Posts:219
Registered:19/09/2007
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Re:For 'Luke', an opportunity.
(Date Posted:31/08/2009 21:27:08)
Luke,
You, as a heretic, have been admonished, exhorted and rebuked. Unfortunately you have not repented. No one here believes or has supported your doctrine.
For the second time I ask that you leave us in peace and post no more of your rantings.
John
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MothandRust
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277#
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Rank:Ghost in the machine
Score:34610
Posts:1585
Registered:27/02/2004
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Re:For 'Luke', an opportunity.
(Date Posted:01/09/2009 00:32:27)
Fremde
Tonyluke was invited into this thread by Ian, and allowed a stay by the moderator. After some lengthy posts it seemed that all he was interested in doing was moving his forum into this thread, seeing that it wasn't being engaged with there. We don't want to host his forum here, and he was asked to shorten his replies to tolerable lengths rather than 'in your face' flooding. A bit of a docking rather than a blanket banning.
So no, no one's asking him to leave. This is sort of a side-show alley, and he's /ahem, kinda the side-show freak. He's allowed to throw all the classic Revivalisms this way, in this thread, as long as he keeps his 'much speaking' in reasonable bites. If nothing else, it provides a talking point and a fresh set of rebuttles to the classic doctrine foibles for Revival readers.
It is disheartening to click on the today page and see that bewildered buffoon displaying all the misconceptions we all used to buy into. It's a sad reminder of all the souls that have bought into the bad bible beliefs invented by well meaning, but 'stupid' men. Sigh at them. Sigh at Luke. Sigh of relief not to be stuck in that rut anymore when there's much better grooves to be in.
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Be nice, for everyone that you meet is fighting a harder battle - Anita Roddick
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prezy
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278#
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Rank:Regular User
Score:2650
Posts:125
Registered:06/02/2007
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Re:For 'Luke', an opportunity.
(Date Posted:02/09/2009 00:36:27)
To all who have prayed for Joey and any other interested persons he went very well through his operation and is recovering well. Many thanks for your prayers and kind thoughts. Rob.
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I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person........
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Sea Urchin
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279#
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Rank:Poster Venti III
Score:9010
Posts:431
Registered:15/02/2007
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Re:For 'Luke', an opportunity.
(Date Posted:02/09/2009 05:58:26)
Hi Rob
I'm so so glad to hear about little Joey (a beautiful name) and pray that he continues to recover.
God bless you & your family,
Urch
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Your unfailing love, O Lord, is as vast as the heavens; your faithfulness reaches beyond the clouds. Your righteousness is like the mighty mountains, your justice like the ocean depths.
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Fremde
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280#
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Rank:Regular Member
Score:4470
Posts:219
Registered:19/09/2007
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RE:For 'Luke', an opportunity.
(Date Posted:02/09/2009 07:15:28)
Point taken Moth. I guess I was fed up with the toilet roll length of his postings and the diarrhoeic repetitions!
I had all of my colon removed eight years ago (hence my avatar) so I also have no need of a laxative. In the physical sense I cannot "put on bowels of mercies" (Colossians 3:12) for Tonyluke.
regards, John
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Fremde
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281#
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Rank:Regular Member
Score:4470
Posts:219
Registered:19/09/2007
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RE:For 'Luke', an opportunity.
(Date Posted:02/09/2009 07:18:19)
Great stuff Prezy! Our children are precious to us. If I could do a cartwheel I would.
Blessings
John
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Luke735
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282#
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Registered:11/06/2009
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RE:For 'Luke', an opportunity.
(Date Posted:12/11/2009 06:32:34)
Hi there all you ex-revivalists, I just thought I would say hi and let you all know I am doing very well both physically and spiritually.
The Lord is blessing our endeavours and we are seeing people saved (Baptised in water and being filled with the Holy Ghost - With the evidence of Speaking in tongues, of course)
As I continue on my journey away from the RF I am saddened that sooo many on this site who have left their various Revival group (RF, RCI or GRC) have been conned into compromising the true Gospel of Jesus Christ to believe another gospel. Obviously a "Luke warm version" shame on you of whom this is true!
Ian sure has found his own little cultish home on this site hasn't he!
That said; I hope that as time wears on and his fruits become the more apparent, that more and more will see the pitiful sickness that so pervadesthis site.
Like I always say. Satan doesn't sit outside the Church and throw stones. He walks up to the pulpit and says "Thus says the Lord" Doesn't he Ian!!!!
Bye for now
Luke 7:35
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Fremde
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283#
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Rank:Regular Member
Score:4470
Posts:219
Registered:19/09/2007
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RE:For 'Luke', an opportunity.
(Date Posted:12/11/2009 09:10:29)
Ian,
You mention ASW and his clone Luke turns up. Same delusions
of leadership and dodgy doctrine. I wonder how long he has been
observing and building up his huff and puff. Perhaps he got lonely
talking to himself on his "Bizzaro" forum.
He's right Satan does
not sit outside the church and throw stones, he roams his Revivalist
Vegetable Patch looking for a willing puffed-up self aggrandising
disciple like ASW or Luke willing to proclaim themselves as "anointed"
and twist the scriptures to heretical and sound doctrine damaging
conclusions.
Their ministry is summed up in the words of Jesus:
"For you travel across sea and land to make a single proselyte, and
when he becomes a proselyte, you make him twice as much a child of hell
as yourselves" (Matthew 23:16 ESV)
I notice Luke started with
the Pestecostal (misspelling intentional) repetitive heresy of
misinterpreted salvation and tongues, can't miss glorifying tongues,
tongues is the be all and end all! The repetition of these unscriptural
lies is for self brainwashing as much as trying to brainwash others.
John
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Metanoian
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284#
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Registered:13/06/2009
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Re:For 'Luke', an opportunity.
(Date Posted:12/11/2009 12:43:21)
I wonder when Luke will pluck up and answer all or any of Ian's points. So far Luke has answered nought
M
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Talmid
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285#
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Rank:Regular Member
Score:4190
Posts:205
Registered:21/04/2008
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Reply to Luke
(Date Posted:12/11/2009 17:23:01)
Yo Luke
Ian sure has found his own little cultish home on this site hasn't he!
That's pretty much the pot calling the kettle black, don't you think?
A week or two back I tried to register as an advanced member of your forum, 'cos I became aware of a post about Ian, and I was interested to see what it said. Your security required registering as an advanced member to view the thread. Rather than play hide'n'seek I tried to register as me, and your webmaster formally rejected me yesterday.
You can see what's written about you here, and you even have an opportunity to post, yet you refuse to let the public even see what you allow to be posted about Ian.
This is the first time I've said *anything* about this, and if you weren't such a hypocrite I would probably *still* haven't said anything about it.
... we are seeing people saved (Baptised in water and being filled with the Holy Ghost - With the evidence of Speaking in tongues, of course)
Well if you're preaching that 'ol RF salvation message, you're preaching what the bible calls "another gospel" and while you might be doing OK spiritually, you're in *deep* doo-doo Spiritually ... as well as being a hypocrite.
(Message edited by Talmid On 12/11/2009 17:27:08)
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There are 10 kinds of people in the world: those who understand binary and those who don't.
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Didaktikon
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286#
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Rank:Old Forum Fogey
Score:31600
Posts:1517
Registered:29/08/2007
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Reply To Luke735
(Date Posted:12/11/2009 17:42:26)
Good morning, Legion.
Goose 
Ian
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Vivos voco, mortuos plango
website: www.pleaseconsider.info email: didaktikon@gmail.com
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brolga
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287#
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Registered:12/09/2009
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Re:For 'Luke', an opportunity.
(Date Posted:12/11/2009 18:52:05)
Ian,
Good morning, Legion.
Goose
Good response, sums up everything. Ralph
(Message edited by brolga On 12/11/2009 18:53:08)
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'It is for God above all things that we are born, and not for ourselves.' (Calvin)
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whodoyouthinkyouare
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288#
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Rank:Noob
Score:350
Posts:16
Registered:22/02/2006
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Re:For 'Luke', an opportunity.
(Date Posted:12/11/2009 21:13:29)
LOL
The lukewarm 'Legion' - Luke
This Luke guy reminds me of David Brent from the UK television series, 'The Office', or Michael Scott from the American version.
A key aspect of the character of Brent is his obliviousness to how other people actually see him, causing him to lash out whenever the veil of ignorance and vanity he maintains is pierced."
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Metanoian
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289#
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Registered:13/06/2009
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Reply To Luke735
(Date Posted:12/11/2009 23:16:22)
Reply to Luke735
The Lord is blessing our endeavours and we are seeing people saved (Baptised in water and being filled with the Holy Ghost - With the evidence of Speaking in tongues, of course)
Luke 7:35
If I was Ian, I'm sure I could achieve the same result if I took a platoon of soldiers for a bivouac weekend in a cow paddock that had been crowded with stud prime breeding bulls... bulls only do two things: eat grass and you know what...
so putting it simply, I find little credibility in your statement.. Ciao Goose
.
(Message edited by Metanoian On 12/11/2009 23:20:39)
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