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Title: Tongue speaking? - anyone can do it
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MothandRust
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Rank:Old Forum Fogey

Score: 32740
Registered: 27/02/2004

(Date Posted:30/06/2007 09:41:27)

Hey Dog, copied your post here on the benefits of meditation = prayer

That is tempting for a christian to think they are pretty similar, but no, not really!...... I spent years praying (Speaking in tongues and otherwise). What is totally missing there is any teaching of technique or discipline in practice.

It sort of goes like this........ You get down and close your eyes, then start speaking in tongues. You try to think wholesome and godly thoughts as you do, perhaps think about the problems you'd like him sort out, maybe think of the blessing you'd like him to bring you, a good amount of adoration and nice thought about god etc. The main thing is, you are not taught how to train your mind at all. It is simply assumed that if you are speaking in tongues, you are tuning in somehow, (but really, you've spent about 13 of your 15 minutes with your mind racing around from "oh shite, did I leave the airconditioner on" to "man, I'm so horny, I want a wife soooo bad" to "gotta take that library book back this arvo" to............. You know the deal!

The mind is a wild bull most of the time. You can spend a half hour in tongues, and all you've done is blabbered away and are in as much stress as you were when you began. You make an enormous assumption when you think that meditation is just like that. I'm not saying there's no benefit in tongues, but what is DEFICIENT is the training and understanding of technique. With a bit of meditation training, you actually could speak in tongues as a meditation mantra if you wish, but you have to understand the practice first. Meditation has distinct benefits.

Stress is one of the most destructive and damaging things in our lives (physically, emotionally, mentally, spiritually). Unless we learn practices of relaxation, we may be stressed around the clock and not even be aware of it. Meditation can be a tremendous antidote to stress, bringing awareness, clarity of mind, peace, and many health benefits. To focus on some principles of practice, meditation is about getting out of our mind and into our senses, becoming aware of what is right here, right now. Most of us allow ourselves to be prisoners of our mind, being stuck in the past and the future. Hopes and aspirations for the future can be a real trap (like a will-o-the-wisp). The only thing that is real is HERE and NOW. To experience (taste, hear, see, feel, touch) what is here right now is an immeasureably beautiful and transcendant state to be in, and it is available to us so freely. Many feel that this itself is the kingdom of god. It is right in front of us, right under our noses, and people ignore this and instead chase pipe dreams of some future place they hope to go to after they die!............UNBELIEVABLE!!!!!!!

The benefits of meditation are scientifically proven, and are known to have many positive physiological affects. One of the most absurd notions I have heard of is when christians try to demonise the practice of meditation as somehow 'occult like' or sinister. Just one more form of fear and mind-control I expect! There is absolutely no threat or risk to the faith of a christian to practice meditation. Associations of meditation with other religions are purely irrelevent.

You say that the dif is "God hearing us, not buddha". OK, whatever turns you on!. For the record, buddha doesn't hear, because he was a mortal man like you and me. He never was (or claimed to be) a god. He was a guy that sat under a tree and contemplated a few things. The realisation he came to was "I am awake" and......(well that's a whole other story)! Your other comments were about the HOPE offers in the bible for an afterlife. I maintain that nobody knows. I guess if there's a god then he does, but he has made nothing unquestionably clear to that affect. All there are are promises in an ambiguous book-nothing more. Well, many will cling on to hopes as they believe in certain promises or theories of an afterlife. The focus that I referred to above (being aware etc) is what I subscribe to..... APPRECIATE THE KINGDOM OF GOD HERE AND NOW.

See the beauty that is all around us. I live in awe of the spectacle of life that presents itself everyday, in all sorts of places and people. I reckon that's where its at, right under our noses all along. Not wrapped in a thousand layers of paper that you have to wade through before you experience the majesty of our creator. We just have to tune in!

Dog.


(Message edited by Uncoolman On 31/05/2008 04:13:01)

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“The mystery of the beginning of all things is insoluble by us; and I for one must be content to remain an agnostic” - Darwin

dogmafree
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1#



Rank:Poster Venti II

Score:7240
Registered: 21/02/2006


(Date Posted:30/06/2007 10:03:09)

Well OK. Thanks (I guess)! Have a strange feeling of being transported!


Here's a thought to add........

I have a sort of suspicion that if there's a god, he/it is hiding right in the very centre of you and me. If we stop all the chatter and noise and stop bloody thinking for a while, we might just find something wonderful!
Dog.

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"for there is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so" Shakespeare (Hamlet, Act 2, Scene 2)
MothandRust
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Rank:Old Forum Fogey

Score:32740
Registered: 27/02/2004


(Date Posted:30/06/2007 12:18:45)

Reply to : dogmafree


Well OK. Thanks (I guess)! Have a strange feeling of being transported!Here's a thought to add........I have a sort of suspicion that if there's a god, he/it is hiding right in the very centre of you and me. If we stop all the chatter and noise and stop bloody thinking for a while, we might just find something wonderful!Dog.




Yeah, peace and quiet perhaps.

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Take the Battleground god test.

In this activity you'll be asked a series of 17 questions about God and religion. In each case, apart from Question 1, you need to answer True or False. The aim of the activity is not to judge whether these answers are correct or not. This battleground is that of rational consistency. This means to get across without taking any hits, you'll need to answer in a way which is rationally consistent. What this means is you need to avoid choosing answers which contradict each other. If you answer in a way which is rationally consistent but which has strange or unpalatable implications, you'll be forced to bite a bullet.

http://www.philosophyquotes.net/cgi-bin/god_game1.cgi

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“The mystery of the beginning of all things is insoluble by us; and I for one must be content to remain an agnostic” - Darwin
brolga
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3#



Rank:Poster Grande III

Score:14550
Registered: 01/03/2007


(Date Posted:30/06/2007 17:29:07)

Reply to : MothandRust
Reply to : dogmafreeWell OK. Thanks (I guess)! Have a strange feeling of being transported!Here's a thought to add........I have a sort of suspicion that if there's a god, he/it is hiding right in the very centre of you and me. If we stop all the chatter and noise and stop bloody thinking for a while, we might just find something wonderful!Dog.Yeah, peace and quiet perhaps.Take the Battleground god test.In this activity you'll be asked a series of 17 questions about God and religion. In each case, apart from Question 1, you need to answer
Battleground Analysis

Congratulations!

You have been awarded the TPM service medal! This is our third highest award for outstanding service on the intellectual battleground.

The fact that you progressed through this activity without suffering many hits and biting no bullets suggests that whilst there are inconsistencies in your beliefs about God, on the whole they are well thought-out.

The direct hits you suffered occurred because some of your answers implied logical contradictions. At the bottom of this page, we have reproduced the analyses of your direct hits. You would have bitten bullets had you responded in ways that required that you held views that most people would have found strange, incredible or unpalatable. However, this did not occur, and consequently, you qualify for our third highest award. Well done!

me Brolga

PS, at least I'm not a "know-all"(not referring to any members on this forum)

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Who said it could not be done? And tell me what great victories does he have to his credit which qualifies him to judge others accurately?
RF_on_the_edge
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4#



Rank:Regular Poster

Score:3180
Registered: 12/03/2007


(Date Posted:01/07/2007 02:04:28)

Reply to : MothandRust

Congratulations! You have made it to the end of this activity.

You took 1 direct hit and you bit 1 bullets. The average player of this activity to date takes 1.39 hits and bites 1.11 bullet. 382468 people have so far undertaken this activity.

Battleground Analysis
Congratulations!

You have been awarded the TPM medal of distinction! This is our second highest award for outstanding service on the intellectual battleground.

The fact that you progressed through this activity being hit only once and biting very few bullets suggests that your beliefs about God are well thought out and almost entirely internally consistent.

BTW:

You've just taken a direct hit!

Earlier you agreed that it is rational to believe that the Loch Ness monster does not exist if there is an absence of strong evidence or argument that it does. No strong evidence or argument was required to show that the monster does not exist - absence of evidence or argument was enough. But now you claim that the atheist needs to be able to provide strong arguments or evidence if their belief in the non-existence of God is to be rational rather than a matter of faith.

The contradiction is that on the first ocassion (Loch Ness monster) you agreed that the absence of evidence or argument is enough to rationally justify belief in the non-existence of the Loch Ness monster, but on this occasion (God), you do not.

I don't think this is a fair cop as there is "strong evidence or argument" to show that the God of the bible exists - and I'm not talking about "speaking in tongues"

(Added: No, this is a fair cop. I assumed absence of evidence for Nessie = strong evidence that Nessie ain't there.) 

I bit the bullet by saying that there is scientific evidence that evolution is wrong. I was thinking of macro-evolution (chemical evolution, ameoba -> man etc) being wrong. I accept the evidence for micro-evolution (adaptation). I contend that there is a vast difference between the evidence for and scientific explanation of macro- vs micro-evolution.
MothandRust
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5#



Rank:Old Forum Fogey

Score:32740
Registered: 27/02/2004


(Date Posted:07/07/2007 07:40:20)

Reply to : Wolvenpaw (or perhaps GWM?)

The Pentecostal phenomenon of "speaking in tongues" has created widespread controversy among modern Christendom today. Without the knowledge of the truth, which only comes to an honest heart by divine revelation, many have misunderstood the purpose of tongues. Do not be confused by theories and ideas of men; learn the truth about this important subject.

Tongues is a controversy only in the fringe groups that don't really have a good handle on their Bibles. Confusion is what there's plenty of, that's for sure, and divine revelation comes in many flavours.

INITIAL EVIDENCE OF THE HOLY SPIRIT BAPTISM - Isaiah prophesied, "With stammering lips and ANOTHER TONGUE will he speak to this people." Is. 28:11. In the great commission, Jesus said, "And these signs shall follow them that believe...they shall speak with NEW TONGUES." Mark 16:17.

Proof-texting? When Israel hears a people of a "strange tongue" which were the Babylonians who came to conquer destroy Judah and take them captive. By hearing those who spoke in another language then the people would know that God's judgment had arrived upon them ! Isaiah 28:12, "To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear." It was the rest and the refreshing but they would not hear... they would not hear.. and therefore the enemy with a different tongue came and destroyed them.

Mark 16 - The passage, teaches that some Christians may speak in tongues. Others may cast out demons. Others still may be involved in the range of supernatural effects that are described, but these effects are simply one part of what it is that demonstrates the uniqueness of the Christian Church as a group separate to and from every other group. The signs aren't individual promises, they're corporate predictions (Ian).

"The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the SOUND thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is everyone that is born of the Spirit." John 3:8. As the sound of wind blowing is the evidence of its presence, so is the sound of speaking in tongues evidence of the Holy Spirit baptism.

Does everyone get a cloven flame of fire above their head also? This Sound=Tongues is an assumption - that one's personal experience is the standard by which to accurately interpret biblical context. In other words, the Bible is to be read through personal experience, rather than personal experience being read through the Bible. This is significant. On the day of Pentecost, the miraculous speaking in human languages, each one being understood by members of the assembled audience, was but one of three remarkable audio-visual ?signs'. The first was the sound of a violent wind, with there being no wind. The second was the visible manifestation of flame, a fire which parted over the apostles, yet without burning them. The third and final sign was the praising of God in supernaturally acquired, humanly recognisable languages. (read more...)

Its advocates were quickly expelled from the established churches, whereupon they established the Pentecostal churches. For 50 years it remained the almost exclusive possession of the Pentecostal churches.

Uttering gibberish that is interpreted as pro