Christ taught (Luke 11 verses 9 to 13) that in order to receive the Holy Sprit we must specifically pray, ask to receive it. We must seek to receive it.
Two things: (1) Luke 11:9-13 is a parable about God's faithfulness, using the language of everyday human need. At the conclusion of the parable comes the "punch-line": God (the Father) understands our daily needs and our deeper needs. He would, therefore, give the Holy Spirit to those who asked (and not sought) of him. (2) The Holy Spirit is a "who" and not an "it". You still seem to follow the RCI/GRC/CAI's Holy Spirit = "spiritual electricity" line. That's bad.
In obedience to this teaching of Christ we encourage new members to pray and seek to be filled with the Spirit.
Nowhere in the entire NT do we find "new members" seeking to be filled with the Spirit after the fashion you teach. We do, however, find Christians (who by definition possess and are possessed by God's Spirit) seeking to continue to be filled as an ongoing reality. But I've digressed. The only obedience Scripture teaches that is required for salvation, is to believe the gospel about Christ. That's it.
Based on Acts 2 ,10, 19 and the strong inference of Acts 8, we tell them to expect to speak in a new LANGUAGE ( not stammering, or repeated syllables) when they finally receive the Spirit thru seeking and asking.
Your understanding of Acts 2, 10, 8 and 19 is wrong. What you teach people is to strive to secure their own salvation; rather than resting in God's faithfulness. What you teach is the heresy of Pelagianism.
There is no time limit given to people for this seeking or praying. We encourage seekers to keep seeking for it for as long as it takes.
Again, "it"?
As long as people are indicating that they are seeking and praying for the Spirit there is no limit of weeks, months or years. If people who have been seeking are not receiving and for whatever reason give up and stop their asking, they are the ones that leave .
Well here's the rub: according to you, God is a liar. Go back to Luke 11:13 and read it again. Humans keeping their sides of the "bargain" by asking, but God defaulting on his? I don't think so.
We've found that we don't need to "drive them out" or something like that, they don't want to remain with us.
I'm not surprised. The frustration, disappointment and feeling of condemnation must be unbearable!
In our experience here no one who continued seeking to receive took longer than one year. We feel it would be very foolish and wrong to drive people out of the church if they are still seeking and praying to receive the Spirit.
So God believes in "testing" people to see if they're serious, huh? How does this fit your conception of grace?
The time that it takes for all who seek varies from person to person.
Of course it does, as you've summed up so well: it depends on the person, rather than on on God!
That's how we manage the process of people seeking and praying for the Holy Spirit. Is it cultic?
Cultic? Possibly. Heretical? Definitely.
We believe that the whole process can be managed with grace, patience and kindness.
The Bible, brother, doesn't teach becoming saved to be a process. It teaches it to be a gracious action of God, who stoops to lift the sinner out of his or her sin.
I totally disagree with any "methods" being used to kind of "induce" speaking new words in a new language.
And yet your methods reinforce precisely this practice.
I'm sorry, Brett, but your gospel isn't the Christian gospel. You teach a human-dependent workds-based form of (self) "righteousness". Now MrJonah might be fixated about the cultic aspects of what results from what you teach, but to me, the most important consideration relates to the teaching itself. What you have presented here is heresy.
Ian
(addendum - this is posted here due to the overcluttering of the other threads by other well meaning posters... Can we please keep this thread strictly just between Mr Jonah, Rev Ian Thomason and the Pilinuts ONLY... that's all
Thanks everyone for your understanding
Friend of Rev Ian )
