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Episkopeo
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1#
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Rank:Regular Rookier
Score:5700
Posts:267
Registered:30/08/2007
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Re:Revival Fellowship Morals Stand
(Date Posted:04/03/2009 19:37:46)
Apologies for missed words etc in my post. My computer wouldn't post last night and I lost the lot so typed and posted this one as quickly as I could, hence the errors.
Epi
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Didaktikon
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2#
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Rank:Old Forum Fogey
Score:31540
Posts:1514
Registered:29/08/2007
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Reply To Episkopeo
(Date Posted:04/03/2009 22:42:56)
Hi, Epi.
It's interesting that when it comes to the handling of morally 'defaulting' people, the RF prides itself on being the more 'biblical' of the two principle Revivalist organisations. But here's the rub: just where in Scripture does it state that people who engage in pre-marital sexual relations must marry so as to set things 'right'? In all my reading of Scripture I've not yet found a single passage to support such a thoroughly legalistic requirement being hefted upon Christians! And whilst ongoing sexual immorality is sure grounds for the breaking of fellowship, the only thing that's required for its complete restoration is repentance on the part of the sinning parties! So in summary, when reviewed from a scriptural perspective, the RF's posture on morals is just as unbiblical as is the RCI's!
God bless,
Ian
(Message edited by Didaktikon On 04/03/2009 22:58:47)
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Vivos voco, mortuos plango
website: www.pleaseconsider.info email: didaktikon@gmail.com
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Disciple(Ex-member)
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Reply To Episkopeo
(Date Posted:04/03/2009 23:29:57)
Reply to Episkopeo (04/03/2009 19:37:46) Apologies for missed words etc in my post. My computer wouldn't post last night and I lost the lot so typed and posted this one as quickly as I could, hence the errors.
Epi
Looking at 1 Corinthians 5 with the example of the illicit affair between the Woman and her step son, this illicit relationship was ongoing - I have to admit and support that Ian is right - yet again for the trillionth time. And how do you make a couple in a situation of immorality like this marry ??? Paul's remedy was conditional excommunication with the purpose of restoration for the offending son ... Interesting though Paul in verse 13 commands the excommunication of such evil but the desired end result was repentance to effect restoration (refer to verse 5) ...
Which begs the question since Paul grouped " greedy, swindlers, idolaters" with the fornicators then why did the RCI FAIL to excommunicate Glenn Duker for his sin ???
Eric..
(Message edited by Disciple On 04/03/2009 23:56:41)
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Episkopeo
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4#
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Rank:Regular Rookier
Score:5700
Posts:267
Registered:30/08/2007
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Re:Revival Fellowship Morals Stand
(Date Posted:05/03/2009 09:49:38)
Reply to Disciple (04/03/2009 23:29:57)
Looking at 1 Corinthians 5 with the example of the illicit affair between the Woman and her step son, this illicit relationship was ongoing - I have to admit and support that Ian is right - yet again for the trillionth time. And how do you make a couple in a situation of immorality like this marry ??? Paul's remedy was conditional excommunication with the purpose of restoration for the offending son ... Interesting though Paul in verse 13 commands the excommunication of such evil but the desired end result was repentance to effect restoration (refer to verse 5) ...
Which begs the question since Paul grouped " greedy, swindlers, idolaters" with the fornicators then why did the RCI FAIL to excommunicate Glenn Duker for his sin ???
Eric..
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Hi Eric, Most of those put out for immorality would have been what is quaintly referred to as keeping company and probably would have married anyway. Unfortunately, being removed from fellowship in this way interrupts and influences the company keeping, twisting the arm towards marriage, as there is usually a strong desire to return to the one true church and be right with God. Aaah, there's a lot to be said for the confessional. Revival people cannot confess their sins to anyone and receive help, love, care, reconciliation and guidance to get them get through. Once they start confessing, they're out. Except, of course if you're Glen Duker of RCI. Now that is a strange, puzzling and inconsistent case. Epi
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Episkopeo
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5#
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Rank:Regular Rookier
Score:5700
Posts:267
Registered:30/08/2007
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Re:Revival Fellowship Morals Stand
(Date Posted:05/03/2009 10:17:51)
James Chapter 5 is a good example of prayer and care within the Christian community.
Epi
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Didaktikon
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6#
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Rank:Old Forum Fogey
Score:31540
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Registered:29/08/2007
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Reply To Disciple
(Date Posted:05/03/2009 15:36:23)
Good morning, Eric.
You've once again highlighted a most appropriate point. Isn't it remarkable how Revivalists can read extended pieces of contiguous text, and yet can walk away from the same with just the one point ringing in their ears out of the several that were made? They do as much with Mark 16:17 ff. They do as much with Acts 2:1 ff. And they do precisely the same when it comes to the various Pauline moral 'lists' that links immorality with other forms of unrighteousness, each leading to precisely the same consequence! Perhaps, then, Revivalist pastors should ponder the implications of Romans 2:1-8:
Therefore you are without excuse, whoever you are, when you judge someone else. For on whatever grounds you judge another, you condemn yourself, because you who judge practice the same things. Now we know that God’s judgment is in accordance with truth against those who practice such things. And do you think, whoever you are, when you judge those who practice such things and yet do them yourself, that you will escape God’s judgment? Or do you have contempt for the wealth of his kindness, forbearance, and patience, and yet do not know that God’s kindness leads you to repentance? But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath for yourselves in the day of wrath, when God’s righteous judgment is revealed! He will reward each one according to his works: eternal life to those who by perseverance in good works seek glory and honor and immortality, but wrath and anger to those who live in selfish ambition and do not obey the truth but follow unrighteousness. (New English Translation)
Scripture, always a mirror that accurately reflects, time and again, the true status of one's soul!
Blessings,
Ian
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Vivos voco, mortuos plango
website: www.pleaseconsider.info email: didaktikon@gmail.com
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Disciple(Ex-member)
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Reply To Episkopeo
(Date Posted:05/03/2009 19:27:44)
Reply to Episkopeo (05/03/2009 10:17:51)
James Chapter 5 is a good example of prayer and care within the Christian community.
Epi
Hi All and Epi and Ian, I have been thinking and chewing over Ian's response's again and I have to ask the question "do the revivalist really have any understanding what Biblical repentance means " ??? Crazy question but I am of the opinion that the RCI really do not understand what repentance really is or what it requires ..
blessings
Eric
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TBerry
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8#
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Rank:New User
Score:610
Posts:26
Registered:12/03/2008
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Re:Revival Fellowship Morals Stand
(Date Posted:08/03/2009 04:27:35)
Galatians 6:1-10 NLT 1 Dear brothers and sisters, if another believer is overcome by some sin, you who are godly should gently and humbly help that person back onto the right path. And be careful not to fall into the same temptation yourself. 2 Share each other’s burdens, and in this way obey the law of Christ. 3 If you think you are too important to help someone, you are only fooling yourself. You are not that important.
4 Pay careful attention to your own work, for then you will get the satisfaction of a job well done, and you won’t need to compare yourself to anyone else. 5 For we are each responsible for our own conduct.
6 Those who are taught the word of God should provide for their teachers, sharing all good things with them. 7 Don’t be misled—you cannot mock the justice of God. You will always harvest what you plant. 8 Those who live only to satisfy their own sinful nature will harvest decay and death from that sinful nature. But those who live to please the Spirit will harvest everlasting life from the Spirit. 9 So let’s not get tired of doing what is good. At just the right time we will reap a harvest of blessing if we don’t give up. 10 Therefore, whenever we have the opportunity, we should do good to everyone—especially to those in the family of faith.
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Episkopeo
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9#
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Rank:Regular Rookier
Score:5700
Posts:267
Registered:30/08/2007
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Re:Revival Fellowship Morals Stand
(Date Posted:08/03/2009 07:10:29)
Hi TBerry,
Just thought I'd refer to some of the "GUIDELINES FOR THE SMOOTH RUNNING OF THE ASSEMBLY - AIMS OF THE FELLOWSHIP" to be sure that all ties in with Galatians 6 : 1-10. Looking at a smattering from, and I quote :-
"To preach the unadulterated Gospel of Jesus Christ to the saving of souls through repentance, baptism in water and infilling of the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues.
To provide a scriptural basis for fellowship of the saved with oversight, admonition, encouragement and teaching to bring to maturity the new converts in Christ.
To ensure as far as is possible, in the annointing of the Holy Spirit to lead all who make contact with our assembly into a spiritual walk with God and to ultimately meet the Lord at His return.
......................................................... 4. It is requested that assembly members do not get themselves involved with the problems of new people. If problems exist, INFORM A PASTOR WHO WILL DEAL WITH THE SITUATION.
7. ANYTHING THOUGHT HARMFUL SHOULD BE MADE KNOWN TO THE PASTOR IMMEDIATELY. WE ARE TO BE AS WATCHMEN . EZEKIEL 3 : 17-21
10. Members are asked to notify a pastor if they intend being absent from meetings. Private arrangements should not clash with assembly meetings.
DISCIPLINE
Any member who has been 'disciplined' by the oversight should not be comforted by well meaning friends. This can encourage rebellion and could result in disaster for those concerned. Any member who has been permanently or temporarily "de-barred" from fellowship should not be visited without permission from the oversight. It is most important that their "case" should not be discussed with them or others. Hebrews 12 : 5-11
IMMORALITY
Any other kind of immorality such as heavy petting and "touching" etc. will be dealt with by the pastors and may lead to being stood down from fellowship for a time.
ENGAGEMENTS
If an engagement is envisaged, NOTIFY A PASTOR and it will be announced. BRIDAL PARTY
Bridal parties shall not consist of ex-members of the assembly who have been stood down from fellowship because of a lifestyle not suitable to Bible standards, (Immorality etc.) even though these ex-members were friends or relations of the bride and or groom. However, if the fallen brother or sister has taken correction and is patiently awaiting their "time" to return, a pastor's permission may be granted.
God Bless
Epi
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Didaktikon
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10#
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Rank:Old Forum Fogey
Score:31540
Posts:1514
Registered:29/08/2007
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Reply To TBerry
(Date Posted:08/03/2009 16:56:06)
Good morning, TBerry.
Yes. And?
Blessings,
Ian
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Vivos voco, mortuos plango
website: www.pleaseconsider.info email: didaktikon@gmail.com
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Didaktikon
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11#
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Rank:Old Forum Fogey
Score:31540
Posts:1514
Registered:29/08/2007
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Reply To Disciple
(Date Posted:08/03/2009 17:01:12)
Hi, Eric.
It's quite clear that Revivalists really don't understand the biblical concept of 'repentance'. Officially published statements of the RCI and the RF both define repentance as, "changing one's mind" (or something similar). However, biblical repentance involves more than simply a change to one's thinking. It also involves a change in one's behaviour. And it is this, latter requirement, wherein Revivalists often stumble.
Blessings,
Ian
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Vivos voco, mortuos plango
website: www.pleaseconsider.info email: didaktikon@gmail.com
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outaegypt
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12#
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Rank:Poster Venti I
Score:6410
Posts:304
Registered:22/06/2006
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Re:Revival Fellowship Morals Stand
(Date Posted:09/03/2009 08:52:33)
THE INTERPRETATION ...
Galatians 6:1-10 NLT 1 Dear brothers and sisters, if another believer is overcome by some sin, you who are godly should gently and humbly help that person back onto the right path. WHAT HAPPENED TO CORRECTING GLENN DUKER? SIMON WONT CORRECT HIM AS THAT WOULD BE MAKING A JUDGEMENT AND HE IS NOT TO JUDGE. OHH...'you who are godly'.... THAT EXPLAINS A BIT.
And be careful not to fall into the same temptation yourself. VICTOR TURNED FROM THE TRUTH TO PROTECT HIS 2 FINANCIAL INVESTMENTS IN RVP. DEPENDS ON THE VALUE OF YOUR SALVATION AND THE VALUE OF THE DOLLAR AND THE NUMBER OF PASTORS DEALS INVOLVED. IF THE RETURNS ARE GOOD FREE FALL INTO TEMPTATION AND IF ANY ONE ASKS DENY IT.
2 Share each other’s burdens, and in this way obey the law of Christ. UNLESS OF COURSE IF IT"S INCONVENIENT, OR THE TRUTH MAY AGAIN REFECT BADLY ON THE PASTORS. IF SO ATTEMPT TO SILENCE THE COMPLAINANTS- OUT THE DOOR- OUT OF SIGHT OUT OF MIND AND LET THE SMEAR CAMPAIGN BEGIN.
3 If you think you are too important to help someone, you are only fooling yourself. You are not that important. OH AMEN, THAT WILL COME AS A SHOCK!
5 For we are each responsible for our own conduct. THANK GOD!
6 Those who are taught the word of God should provide for their teachers, sharing all good things with them. THATS SHARE, NOT DEFRAUD OR TAKE BY DECEPTION OR CHANGING TITTLE DEEDS.
10 Therefore, whenever we have the opportunity, we should do good to everyone—especially to those in the family of faith- UNLESS IT JEOPARDIZES OUR FINANCIAL PROFIT , MAKES THE PASTORS LOOK HYPERCRITICAL OR IS JUST TOO INCONVENIENT OR MAY REQUIRE SOME EFFORT ON YOUR BEHALF. IF IN DOUBT FOOL THE FLOCK, PULL THE WOOL AND SHAFT THE SHEEP.. DON'T CHANGE BEHAVIOR, CHANGE THE FACTS. A CAPITAL responce.... Kaboom tish! 
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As I hear it, I'll repeat it,
Its up to you if you believe it!
Allegation big and small,
soon revealed before us all.
outa here- Outa Egypt!
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Episkopeo
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13#
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Rank:Regular Rookier
Score:5700
Posts:267
Registered:30/08/2007
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Re:Revival Fellowship Morals Stand
(Date Posted:08/09/2009 22:16:11)
Hi All,
I might be a little out of date here but it seems the RF morals policy has changed. While talking yesterday with a long standing RFer the subject of fornication came up, about those who've been put out and thrown into panic and uncertainty because if they don't marry in order to both return, only one may return, which is how it has been since the RCI split statement on the subject. With a seriously concerned face I was told "No, no, no, we don't force or pressure anyone to marry in order to return to fellowship. That would be very wrong and no-one is put in that position." It appears now that both are allowed back (after serving time out) in their single state to choose whether to marry or look for someone else in the future. It was said as if this had always been in practice. I had to point out that I'd been around a long time and knew differently to which there was faltering and rearranging of what was said to include how it once was but not anymore and how it is now. So much for the many who've gone before who've felt obligated in this situation to marry being told to "come and see us after you're married." I know a few who were aggrieved by their treatment in past times when faced with the prospect of having to marry or one misses out. I wonder if there were apologies to them when, or if, the new policy on fornicators was announced. That they are not now obliged to marry but may both return in their single state to resume life in the fellowship, closely watched I'm sure. Or, has this just surreptitiously crept in as the way it has always been and how could anyone think otherwise. I think this more likely would be the case.
It's not that I disagree with this change, I think it is a very healthy change and avoids a lot of anguish to people in the position of having made a mistake.
What does amuse me is the past pompous finger pointing at those unstable "mainline" churches and the compromising Pentecostals who change things and take a soft approach while Revivalists are a straight down the line, no compromise, no change church.
Any current RFers who would like to contribute to this subject?
Epi
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MothandRust
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14#
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Rank:Ghost in the machine
Score:34610
Posts:1585
Registered:27/02/2004
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Re:Revival Fellowship Morals Stand
(Date Posted:09/09/2009 07:02:02)
Yeah
The ever changing Revival morals stand. I'd like an apology for being co-erced into marriage at the age of 17, and I dare Mister Brad Smith to do so one day. That they can at least admit that their 'wisdom' ain't always that wise (incredibly rarely actually) is something, and knowing that they have relaxed this unfair practice may be enough to allow this mothy ghost in the machine to move towards the light and peacefully put it behind him..
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Be nice, for everyone that you meet is fighting a harder battle - Anita Roddick
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Galien
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15#
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Rank:Poster Venti II
Score:8650
Posts:425
Registered:17/01/2005
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RE:Revival Fellowship Morals Stand
(Date Posted:09/09/2009 21:24:30)
Moth,
The ever changing Revival morals stand. I'd like an apology for being co-erced into marriage at the age of 17, and I dare Mister Brad Smith to do so one day. That they can at least admit that their 'wisdom' ain't always that wise (incredibly rarely actually) is something, and knowing that they have relaxed this unfair practice may be enough to allow this mothy ghost in the machine to move towards the light and peacefully put it behind him..
Be careful what kind of light it is though. It would be nice at times to believe this crap could be put behind us for good, but for some of us, there will always be scars. I think we both know that religious types, no matter their ilk, are never wrong, and they never say sorry. Clearly they get some sense of certainty and security out of the digusting ways they choose to behave. You will never get an apology, they never cared, and like all of us, you were there to make up the numbers.
I am sorry you had to go through this bullshit. I am still gobsmacked every day by the way people use the word of god to hurt others. Some of us cannot stand by and watch something so precious and real turned into something used to control others. Still others of us go on to take our inner needs into a new religious arena to see who we can manipulate, believing the whole time we are specially called of god to do whatever. Still others go on to a healthy church environment. I will never be able to understand the complete and utter blindness of some people when it comes to the damage they do to others.
Pascal got it right when he said "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction".
Peace on your journey moth, and I am pleased you have found someone to spend your life with.
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I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day. So there.
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Episkopeo
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16#
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Rank:Regular Rookier
Score:5700
Posts:267
Registered:30/08/2007
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Re:Revival Fellowship Morals Stand
(Date Posted:13/09/2009 00:43:07)
Reply to MothandRust
Yeah
The ever changing Revival morals stand. I'd like an apology for being co-erced into marriage at the age of 17, and I dare Mister Brad Smith to do so one day. That they can at least admit that their 'wisdom' ain't always that wise (incredibly rarely actually) is something, and knowing that they have relaxed this unfair practice may be enough to allow this mothy ghost in the machine to move towards the light and peacefully put it behind him.. |
Moth, I have looked a little further into the 'about turn' and I think the reasons for relaxing this 14 year stand were to cover themselves rather than to lighten the burden for the people. The bunden being lightened because it was brought to their attention that these marriages could be seen as forced and consequently against the law. Being 'put out' to return only when married, if not actual force, is emotional manipulation and I guess they didn't want to take chances. Epi
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MothandRust
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17#
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Rank:Ghost in the machine
Score:34610
Posts:1585
Registered:27/02/2004
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Re:Revival Fellowship Morals Stand
(Date Posted:13/09/2009 06:45:53)
Hmm
Well then! It looks like many of us have a 'case'. We were given no other choice but to marry, and in no uncertain terms.
I should think a fair few 'pastors' should be worried by their past transgressions of the law. They may catch up with them yet.
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Be nice, for everyone that you meet is fighting a harder battle - Anita Roddick
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Didaktikon
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18#
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Rank:Old Forum Fogey
Score:31540
Posts:1514
Registered:29/08/2007
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Reply To MothandRust
(Date Posted:13/09/2009 16:59:59)
Good morning, Pete.
It would be ironic to discover that the RF might have changed a long-standing policy because of legal considerations, rather than the hierarchy finally achieving a more mature Scriptural understanding on the subject, wouldn't it? However if the RF has amended it's policies in the direction as has been suggested, then such can only be a positive thing for those still within. It would be one less destructive issue of unbiblical legalism, and such must be a positive thing! Who knows? Maybe one day they might even get the simple gospel of grace right 
Blessings,
Ian
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Vivos voco, mortuos plango
website: www.pleaseconsider.info email: didaktikon@gmail.com
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