Abuse Report
1 .  Thread's URL
2 .  Comment
3 .  Your Name
4 .  E-mail
    
User Name   Password
 
Views:529     
<<Previous ThreadNext Thread>>
Page 1 / 1    
Author Comment
Guest
| Move to Bottom
 
Author


(Date Posted:30/01/2008 18:10:30)

This message has been deleted due to Termination of Account.

(Message edited by Uncoolman On 18/04/2008 19:52:26)
Didaktikon
| Move to Top | Move to Bottom
 
1#



Rank:Posterior Maximus I

Score:17390
Registered: 29/08/2007

Reply To is_aimoo_guest
(Date Posted:30/01/2008 18:34:09)

Lots of debate about this with lots of suppressed women. Open honest scriptural debate please.

Well, for starters we need to bear in mind that Ephesians 5:22 doesn't exist as a proof-text devoid of any and all context! The concept of marital submission is subequent to the broader issue of social submission that was outlined in vv. 17-21, and further, that the theme of submission continues from verse 23 forwards. To summarise, in this paraenetic section of Ephesians Paul was discussing what is technically referred to in NT biblical studies as "haustafeln" ("Household Codes"), which were a frequent topic of discussion in a wide range of first century Greco-Roman writings. These "codes of behaviour" outlined the approved forms of social interraction (and responsibilities) that were held to exist between husbands and wives, parents and children, and masters and slaves. Consequently, key to properly grasping Paul's intent is a solid understanding of the social and cultural imperatives of the time. Context, context, context (...context!)

Blessings,

Ian

P.S. I should have mentioned that it is faulty to simply presume that Paul was discussing the relationship between a Christian husband and a Christian wife. This would be to superimpose a modern "Christian" reading upon an ancient text! The reality is that Paul was likely addressing Christian women who were married to non-Christian husbands, which was something of a "norm" within his churches! In effect, Paul may have been challenging Christian wives to behave in ways fully accepted (and expected) socially, so as to avoid causing social repercussions to the advancement of Christianity in that social context.


(Message edited by Didaktikon On 31/01/2008 00:39:49)

--------------------------------------------------------------
Vivos voco, mortuos plango

website: www.pleaseconsider.info email: didaktikon@gmail.com

Guest
| Move to Top | Move to Bottom
2#



RE:Question. What does
(Date Posted:31/01/2008 19:48:52)

This message has been deleted due to Termination of Account.
Didaktikon
| Move to Top | Move to Bottom
 
3#



Rank:Posterior Maximus I

Score:17390
Registered: 29/08/2007

Reply To is_aimoo_guest
(Date Posted:31/01/2008 20:11:41)

Ian, any particular reading that you would recommend for a 'good' study of the subject.

Hi, Steve.

I suppose there are a few decent works that deal with social interaction in 1st century Greco-Roman society that you could look into; probably the best all-round "background" to the NT that addresses this and a host of other subjects is Everett Ferguson's, Backgrounds of Early Christianity, 3rd ed. published by Eerdmans. Dealing strictly on the subject of marriage and family relations, you might consider Ken Campbell's, Marriage and Family in the Biblical World, published by IVP.

Blessings,

Ian

--------------------------------------------------------------
Vivos voco, mortuos plango

website: www.pleaseconsider.info email: didaktikon@gmail.com

Episkopeo
| Move to Top | Move to Bottom
 
4#



Rank:Regular Member

Score:3830
Registered: 30/08/2007

Reply To is_aimoo_guest
(Date Posted:02/02/2008 03:16:25)

Lots of debate about this with lots of suppressed women.

Open honest scriptural debate please.
Hi Guest,

I would like to have a go at this subject, although Ian's reply was so good at presenting a different way of looking into these scriptures that I have printed it out for future reference.  I particularly liked "Household Codes."

Firstly, I am not a suppressed woman.  Hope I can give both an objective and a subjective female viewpoint using Ephesians 5:21 - 6:24, so here goes:-

Submission is God's standard for all believers.  Ephesians 5:21 -  Submit to one another out of reverence to Christ. NLT

In Ephesians 5:22 wives are to submit to their OWN husbands (as in most versions) AS UNTO THE LORD.  How do I submit to the Lord?  Love, trust, faithfulness, obediance etc.   To submit has not the gastly connotation of repression and loss of identity, because that is not how we submit to the Lord.

In verse 25 Husbands are to love their wives as Christ loved the church and gave Himself up for her.  Paul instructs husbands to imitate Christ and his church.  There was no domination in Jesus love for his church/his people.  He could have commanded absolute submission from all, but he led by example and became a serving leader - washing the feet of him disciples (John 13:12-16) and dying for all of us.

Ephesians Chapters 5:21 - 6:24 presents the proper response expected towards each other at different levels - husbands, wives, parents, children, workers etc - mutual submission.

There is, however in paternalistic, fundamentalist churches a danger of a strict literal interpretation of Ephesians 5:22
on submission, which poses a two way problem.   Male domination and control, or females developing a skillful, crafty and deceptive art, whereby their husbands think they have the headship/submission under control, but in fact it could actually be the reverse.  Not nice either way.  It pays to study your scriptures well. 

God Bless

Epi




Episkopeo
| Move to Top | Move to Bottom
 
5#



Rank:Regular Member

Score:3830
Registered: 30/08/2007

RE:Question. What does
(Date Posted:02/02/2008 03:27:30)


One quick addition to my post.

Jesus was in submission to the Father but he was also EQUAL to the Father.

Epi
Guest
| Move to Top | Move to Bottom
6#



RE:Question. What does
(Date Posted:02/02/2008 05:31:31)

This message has been deleted due to Termination of Account.
Guest
| Move to Top | Move to Bottom
7#



Reply To is_aimoo_guest
(Date Posted:03/02/2008 10:37:03)

This message has been deleted due to Termination of Account.
Guest
| Move to Top | Move to Bottom
8#



RE:Question. What does
(Date Posted:03/02/2008 11:20:18)

This message has been deleted due to Termination of Account.
Sea Urchin
| Move to Top | Move to Bottom
 
9#