outaegypt
|
151#
|
Rank:Poster Venti I
Score:6410
Posts:304
Registered:22/06/2006
|
Re:Rci pastor has been uncovered
(Date Posted:12/03/2009 21:19:18)
It seems the whispers I had originally heard, I'm hearing are now uncertain to it's validity. Such is the grape vine! It possibly isn't true. I would hate to think I have been thrown a Red Herring or even rolled a Rissole for that matter!! I'm not sure what's going on, I have tried to confirm but no bodies talking. That is very disappointing to say the least, if it was a dodgy bit of info.... just have to keep a watch and see if something does eventuate.
--------------------------------------------------------------
As I hear it, I'll repeat it,
Its up to you if you believe it!
Allegation big and small,
soon revealed before us all.
outa here- Outa Egypt!
|
|
CAGD
|
152#
|
Registered:21/01/2009
|
Reply To outaegypt
(Date Posted:12/03/2009 22:26:39)
Reply to outaegypt (12/03/2009 21:19:18) I'm hearing are now uncertain to it's validity.
That is very disappointing to say the least
OoE,
I agree 'disappointing'
that might explain why the dates kept changing. CAGD
|
|
D-T-M
|
153#
|
Rank:Rookier II
Score:1830
Posts:75
Registered:28/08/2006
|
RE:Rci pastor has been uncovered
(Date Posted:15/03/2009 14:57:32)
and I have just bought a new VCR tape for the occasion!
Mole
|
|
cultevasion
|
154#
|
Rank:Member IV
Score:1420
Posts:68
Registered:24/06/2006
|
Re:Rci pastor has been uncovered
(Date Posted:18/03/2009 03:19:56)
I saw the Trailer advertising Glenn Duker on A Current Affair this evening. Full report will be aired on Thursday 19th March. Should be interesting.
--------------------------------------------------------------
cultivation leads to cultevasion -
don"t reap what they sow!
|
|
Episkopeo
|
155#
|
Rank:Regular Rookier
Score:5700
Posts:267
Registered:30/08/2007
|
Re:Rci pastor has been uncovered
(Date Posted:18/03/2009 04:54:34)
Yes, cultevasion, looks like tomorrow, Thursday evening it's on. I also saw the Duker affair advertised at the end of tonight's A Current Affair.
Epi
|
|
outaegypt
|
156#
|
Rank:Poster Venti I
Score:6410
Posts:304
Registered:22/06/2006
|
Re:Rci pastor has been uncovered
(Date Posted:18/03/2009 06:13:52)
So it is true.... the link below is a short promo I found on their website.
http://video.msn.com/?mkt=en-au&brand=ninemsn&playlist=videoByUuids:uuids:98319f60-cbeb-4f34-bbc6-81313a068039&showPlaylist=true&from=inline&fg=aca
I wonder why it doesn't say his last name?
--------------------------------------------------------------
As I hear it, I'll repeat it,
Its up to you if you believe it!
Allegation big and small,
soon revealed before us all.
outa here- Outa Egypt!
|
|
D-T-M
|
157#
|
Rank:Rookier II
Score:1830
Posts:75
Registered:28/08/2006
|
RE:Rci pastor has been uncovered
(Date Posted:18/03/2009 15:28:15)
One hopes that there would have been some informal discussion at the various house meetings last night.
One also hopes that various pastors did not soil their underwear too badly when they saw or heard about the promo!
Mole
|
|
Didaktikon
|
158#
|
Rank:Old Forum Fogey
Score:31600
Posts:1517
Registered:29/08/2007
|
Reply To D%2DT%2DM
(Date Posted:18/03/2009 16:11:40)
Good morning, Mole.
The voice-over states: "preacher Glenn, the devil in disguise" replete with cute graphics. Typical ACA tabloid journalism, but no doubt it will be effective enough in getting the point across, and will cause the RCI to take a significant 'hit' from a PR perspective. Of course it never should have come to this, nor did it need to come to this. Had the RCI senior leadership shown a little backbone earlier in the piece, had they demonstrated a micron in the way of pastoral compassion, had they acted as 'shepherds' rather than 'wolves' to begin with, then this entire sordid affair would have been dealt with appropriately years ago.
For those who haven't cottoned on yet, a quote: "one's theology determines one's ethics; one's ethics determines one's morality." Well the theology is certainly screwed enough, so there shouldn't be very many surprised to note that the personal ethics of some very senior RCI 'pastors' have been shown to have been rather off-kilter. And the product of which has been publicly outworked in some very questionable personal morals!
The Revival Centres International: a theologically bankrupt sect, led by ethically questionable senior 'pastors', whose moral fibre is now up for public review.
What a mess!
Ian
P.S. Let's hope the average RCI pastor avoids future acts of hypocrisy, by ceasing to take opportunity of pointing out the moral failings of ministers in other churches.
--------------------------------------------------------------
Vivos voco, mortuos plango
website: www.pleaseconsider.info email: didaktikon@gmail.com
|
|
Im_out
|
159#
|
Registered:02/01/2009
|
Re:Rci pastor has been uncovered
(Date Posted:19/03/2009 05:02:11)
Well after watching it, it was rather thin in content in regard to no reference or accountabilities to
PS & PV. Hopefully some folk from Frankston with P Matt and those at Box hill will maybe get a twinge of conscious, and curiosity, and realise that there being hoodwinked by the wolves, and awake from there brain washed slumber, and take note,
ACA mentions that they would like to hear from other folk owed money to. Well now’s their chance, by coming forward they will allow the media coverage to continue and allow the church to be held accountable for their disgraceful behaviour,
Remember ACA said that "
THE CHURCH STILL STANDS BY GLENN"
And simply "DEMOTED HIM"
If this opens anyone’s minds in RCI then on this link you can find all the news reports, or if you don’t trust this site, go straight the age newspaper or Yahoo web site and type in Glenn Duker, and you will find the original reports, Remember to accumulate 35 million of debt doesn’t just happen through bad luck.
If you wonder why “my” intense interest in this matter, I was nearly caught up in this sordid affair over 10 years ago, when I was approached by him, fortunately I knew a few things about finance and let the invite go unanswered.
And to think back in Pastor Lloyds day 20 plus years ago they were on a witch hunt and putting folk out of fellowship for attending and being involved in Amway meetings, my how things have changed.
DTM please let us know if any of the show sunk in to the plebs this Sunday.
Im_Out (And never been happier,)
(Message edited by Im_out On 19/03/2009 05:04:54)
|
|
Didaktikon
|
160#
|
Rank:Old Forum Fogey
Score:31600
Posts:1517
Registered:29/08/2007
|
Reply To Im%5Fout
(Date Posted:19/03/2009 15:08:31)
Good morning, 'Out'.
Well, having not yet reviewed the broadcast, and going by what you've written, I can only assume the ACA piece was as I initially feared: naught but shallow tabloid journalism. It seems that Simon and Victor may have have been granted 'plausible deniability' after all.
But I wouldn't expect too much from the 'sheeple' who attend the RCI. It's not as if they're a particularly discerning lot.
Blessings,
Ian
(Message edited by Didaktikon On 19/03/2009 15:26:12)
--------------------------------------------------------------
Vivos voco, mortuos plango
website: www.pleaseconsider.info email: didaktikon@gmail.com
|
|
Disciple(Ex-member)
|
|
|
Reply To Didaktikon
(Date Posted:19/03/2009 15:30:46)
Reply to Didaktikon (19/03/2009 15:08:31)
Good morning, 'Out'.
Well, having not yet reviewed the broadcast, and going by what you've written, I can only assume the ACA piece was as I initially feared: naught but shallow tabloid journalism. It seems that Simon and Victor may have have been granted 'plausible deniability' after all.
And I wouldn't expect too much from the 'sheeple' who attend the RCI. It's not as if they're a particularly discerning lot.
Blessings,
Ian
Good morning Ian,
Brother I think it best to post off to you first thing tomorrow morning the DVD recording of what we have so far and if any follow ups gets aired, well I guess I can always send a supplement.. Will ask you though to mail off a copy to Drew for me if you don't mind. In your case I could mail priority paid and you can have it Tuesday at the latest.
To O of E.
My thoughts are this:
As it has been publicly disclosed that the wife of Glenn Duker is not bankrupt then I think the Christian thing to do would be for Duker to surrender all funds in any of his wife's bank accounts and finances that is above $6000 to his ITSA trustee..
And O of E let me know if you would like your rissole  and where do I post it to ?? !!
blessings
Eric
PS To Uncoolman and anyone else who would like a rissole, there's plenty of meat and the oven is still hot  .
(Message edited by Disciple On 19/03/2009 15:51:52)
|
|
D-T-M
|
162#
|
Rank:Rookier II
Score:1830
Posts:75
Registered:28/08/2006
|
RE:Rci pastor has been uncovered
(Date Posted:19/03/2009 15:41:14)
Some light at the end of the tunnel?
After the ACA segment last night Mrs Mole was musing on the comparative sentencing inequity in RCI whereby one is subject to permanent expulsion for rooting someone who is not one's legal spouse and the apparent lack of censure for a bloke who managed to loose $35 million of RCI members and other investors funds.
Hopefully if Mrs Mole thinks this way so will others.
Mole
|
|
cruel twist
|
163#
|
Registered:15/10/2006
|
Re:Rci pastor has been uncovered
(Date Posted:19/03/2009 15:55:16)
Yeah the injustice of it all.
I remember being told not to build your house upon the sand ....
--------------------------------------------------------------
"Try not to burn the toast"
|
|
cruel twist
|
164#
|
Registered:15/10/2006
|
Re:Rci pastor has been uncovered
(Date Posted:19/03/2009 15:58:45)
Reply to cruel twist (19/03/2009 15:55:16)
Yeah the injustice of it all.
I remember being told not to build your house upon the sand .... |
The RF are all quiet now
--------------------------------------------------------------
"Try not to burn the toast"
|
|
cruel twist
|
165#
|
Registered:15/10/2006
|
Reply To earth5
(Date Posted:19/03/2009 16:17:28)
--------------------------------------------------------------
"Try not to burn the toast"
|
|
Didaktikon
|
166#
|
Rank:Old Forum Fogey
Score:31600
Posts:1517
Registered:29/08/2007
|
Reply To cruel%20twist
(Date Posted:19/03/2009 16:51:11)
Good morning, 'Twist'.
I had a browse through that site, and what a "litany of woe" it represented! But I couldn't help but notice a common thread that ran through about 90% of the entries: Pentecostalism.
Blessings,
Ian
--------------------------------------------------------------
Vivos voco, mortuos plango
website: www.pleaseconsider.info email: didaktikon@gmail.com
|
|
outaegypt
|
167#
|
Rank:Poster Venti I
Score:6410
Posts:304
Registered:22/06/2006
|
Reply To D%2DT%2DM
(Date Posted:19/03/2009 19:02:14)
Reply to D-T-M (19/03/2009 15:41:14)
Some light at the end of the tunnel?
After the ACA segment last night Mrs Mole was musing on the comparative sentencing inequity in RCI whereby one is subject to permanent expulsion for rooting someone who is not one's legal spouse and the apparent lack of censure for a bloke who managed to loose $35 million of RCI members and other investors funds.
Hopefully if Mrs Mole thinks this way so will others.
Mole Good point DTM and Mrs M. I think just the Basic fact that RCI have continued to Support him regardless of the report of so many just clearly confirms their Spiritual and moral fibre is not of God.
The family featured has been slandered as Greedy people who did business deals with Glenn and couldn't handle it. (Vic's talk and Simon in court) to discredit them
Last night it was again revealed they were not business deals for their own financial gain but they were tricked into thinking they were helping him. Thats not the actions of greedy people.
I couldnt beleive on the phone to Duker still did not admit any wrong doing.....what deluded denial.
--------------------------------------------------------------
As I hear it, I'll repeat it,
Its up to you if you believe it!
Allegation big and small,
soon revealed before us all.
outa here- Outa Egypt!
|
|
escaped
|
168#
|
Rank:Rookier IV
Score:2460
Posts:108
Registered:28/02/2006
|
Reply To outaegypt
(Date Posted:20/03/2009 00:07:51)
I think just the Basic fact that RCI have continued to Support him regardless of the report of so many just clearly confirms their Spiritual and moral fibre is not of God.
The family featured has been slandered as Greedy people who did business deals with Glenn and couldn't handle it. (Vic's talk and Simon in court) to discredit them
Last night it was again revealed they were not business deals for their own financial gain but they were tricked into thinking they were helping him. Thats not the actions of greedy people.
I couldnt beleive on the phone to Duker still did not admit any wrong doing.....what deluded denial.
(Message edited by escaped On 20/03/2009 00:10:21)
|
|
Episkopeo
|
169#
|
Rank:Regular Rookier
Score:5700
Posts:267
Registered:30/08/2007
|
Re:Rci pastor has been uncovered
(Date Posted:20/03/2009 07:20:40)
Reply to outaegypt (19/03/2009 19:02:14)
I think just the Basic fact that RCI have continued to Support him regardless of the report of so many just clearly confirms their Spiritual and moral fibre is not of God.
The family featured has been slandered as Greedy people who did business deals with Glenn and couldn't handle it. (Vic's talk and Simon in court) to discredit them
It's certainly NOT of God Outa and all as 1 Timothy 5:19-21 (NLT) points out :-
"Do not listen to an accusation against an elder UNLESS it is confirmed by two or three witnesses. Those who sin should be responsible in front of the whole church; this will serve as a strong warning to others.
I solemnly command you in the presence of God and Christ Jesus and the holy angels to obey these instructions without taking sides or showing favoritism to anyone.
Never be in a hurry about appointing a church leader."
This appears to protect against errant pastors and personal vendettas by the witness of several - the redress is public. The witnesses were there long ago but the leaders took no head. I think RCI is very much to blame.
Two of the saddest and most revealing remarks on last night's A Current Affair was "it is unthinkable that a pastor would betray you" and "he was our pastor, he asked us to help him out." This is where Revival groups are at fault; the promition of total trust and dependence in these men who have the title of "pastor."
You only have to read through the rules of Revival groups (RF have 5 pages) to see all the don'ts and the consulting/reporting to the "pastor" about this or that is a very important part of membership of the organisation. It's almost like, being a Revivalist and obeying pastors is synonymous. As for the pastors, well, they seem to be above accountability.
Look at the destruction and hurt a man misusing the title of "pastor" can cause. As was stated on ACA by the cult expert "the relationship of pastor can be greater than that of parent/child.
God Bless all Revivalists.
Epi
|
|
|
Episkopeo
|
170#
|
Rank:Regular Rookier
Score:5700
Posts:267
Registered:30/08/2007
|
Re:Rci pastor has been uncovered
(Date Posted:20/03/2009 07:27:28)
Sorry, should read heed not head.
Epi
|
|
Disciple(Ex-member)
|
|
|
Reply To Episkopeo
(Date Posted:20/03/2009 15:49:59)
Reply to Episkopeo (20/03/2009 07:27:28)
Sorry, should read heed not head.
Epi Hi Epi..
I can have the program burnt on to a DVD disk and mail it to you if you would like a copy.. Not expensive. Disks come in packs of 50 at my supermarket and work out about $0.90 - $1.00 a disk and a couple of dollars for pack and posting.. I am sending 4 disks this morning off to Ian via priority paid after I been down and voted for state election..
A little bird told me there may possibly be follow ups in the next couple of weeks but at this stage everything is hush hush for obvious reasons..
so you're welcome - just pm or email me if you like and I will take care of it for you..
blessings sister
Eric
(Message edited by Disciple On 20/03/2009 15:54:32)
|
|
CAGD
|
172#
|
Registered:21/01/2009
|
Re:Rci pastor has been uncovered
(Date Posted:20/03/2009 19:55:58)
Thursday Nights Viewer's Ratings were over 2 Million. The Channel 9 switch board ran hot with more reporting of Duker Dealings, also Inundated with Emails to the same effect. . $34 Million Debt and not forgetting the $6 Million debt for the 3 Dukers failed company, RVP's liquidation. $40 Million is not the evidence of men who have done nothing wrong as Duker claims- Evidence Simon Longfield and Victor Samoilenko refuse to acknowledge and still continue to support them. Victor received $90,000 preferential payment from RVP last year (public record transcripts) and will be forced by law to return. Stephen McCauley a former Director of RVP, regardless of previously admitted knowledge and evidence still supports the Dukers.
How many more Millions will Lorilea Dukers Bankruptcy be to add to the existing $40 Million? Matthew Duker also a Director of RVP what personal assets has he offered to help it's decimated Victims? .
While the Spot light is on the Dukers it reflects straight on to RCI.
Maybe you have a story of your own.
This is an opportunity to speak. Do you remember Details/Names/Dealings/problems concerning Duker that were spoken about or never dealt with? Are you one of the members or Pastors still in the Assembly that has lost money or are holding a debt and too scared to speak up for fear of being ostracized? Your loyalty is misplaced, God is not a God of fear and men that wield that tool are not of God. There could be breaches in your contract or recourse now available to you that you are unaware of. Were you told your debt or loss is your punishment for doing business in the church? It is not true, this man and those supporting him have lied to you. Being silent aids others to get away with fraud. This is an an opportunity to clear your conscience...and help put things right and free yourself. . aca@nine.com.au . or
. Creditorsagainstglennduker@hotmail.com.au
(Message edited by CAGD On 20/03/2009 19:58:40)
|
|
outaegypt
|
173#
|
Rank:Poster Venti I
Score:6410
Posts:304
Registered:22/06/2006
|
Re:Rci pastor has been uncovered
(Date Posted:20/03/2009 20:51:00)
Matthew 5:24-26 24 leave your gift there before the altar, and go your way. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift. 25 Agree with your adversary quickly, while you are on the way with him, lest your adversary deliver you to the judge, the judge hand you over to the officer, and you be thrown into prison.
26Assuredly, I say to you, you will by no means get out of there till you have paid the last penny.
--------------------------------------------------------------
As I hear it, I'll repeat it,
Its up to you if you believe it!
Allegation big and small,
soon revealed before us all.
outa here- Outa Egypt!
|
|
Episkopeo
|
174#
|
Rank:Regular Rookier
Score:5700
Posts:267
Registered:30/08/2007
|
Re:Rci pastor has been uncovered
(Date Posted:21/03/2009 22:11:42)
Hi Eric,
Thanks for the offer of a copy of ACA on Duker. I already have one. If I do miss anything which might follow on, I will be in touch, thanks.
With the viewers' ratings and feedback it wouldn't surprise me if we do hear more of this on ACA. The preachers who don't practice what they preach, has and could, stir up more interest than the followups that have aired on Exclusive Brethren. I would say there would be more ex Revers out there than Exclusive Brethren, if you remember how many they've churned through the waters of baptism. When in RCI an oversight told me that if all stayed RCI would be an enormous church, but he said that for every ten who are baptised and "spiritfilled" nine leave - just like the 10 lepers who were healed, only one returned and nine left.
I fear for the victims in this affair who bravely appeared on camera. Hopefully if ACA persevere with this, something might be uncovered which could help in some way. Perhaps they could delve deeper into the RCI involvement and the reasons why this man (Duker) is given RCI support and protection. Truly preferential treatment, when one considers those who've been put out/shown the door for minor offenses like smoking etc, in order to present the appearance of a "perfect church." It is inconsistent to say the least.
God Bless
Epi
|
|
FreedomFound
|
175#
|
Registered:11/11/2008
|
RE:Rci pastor has been uncovered
(Date Posted:21/03/2009 23:10:07)
If there is anyone from RCI reading...I would be extremely interested to know the response that the church gave to the current airings on ACA...
Please fill us in...oh to be a fly on the wall!
|
|
D-T-M
|
176#
|
Rank:Rookier II
Score:1830
Posts:75
Registered:28/08/2006
|
RE:Rci pastor has been uncovered
(Date Posted:22/03/2009 15:33:19)
Freedom,
Check the Simon Says Thread.
Mole
|
|
misterkilometres
|
177#
|
Rank:Regular Poster
Score:3100
Posts:128
Registered:11/06/2008
|
Re:Rci pastor has been uncovered
(Date Posted:25/03/2009 20:49:34)
Reply to D-T-M (22/03/2009 15:45:27) On 22 March 2009 Mrs Mole reports that Simon is alleged to have said:
Last
Monday morning he spent an hour on the phone talking to "that reporter"
who included nothing that Simon told him in the segment. Simon said
that it was not convenient to talk at the time as he was trying to
prepare his talk for a funeral that day. (The Mole understands that the
funeral took place at 11AM)
Simon then said that the Duker affair had nothing to do with RCI and was a matter between him (Duker) and his God.
Mole
--------------------------------------------------------------
“Preach the Gospel at all times and when necessary use words.”
|
|
misterkilometres
|
178#
|
Rank:Regular Poster
Score:3100
Posts:128
Registered:11/06/2008
|
Rci pastor has been uncovered
(Date Posted:25/03/2009 20:59:39)
"Simon then said that the Duker affair had nothing to do with RCI and was a matter between him (Duker) and his God."
Simon would HAVE to say that now.... If he said anything otherwise at this late stage of the proceedings he would then have to admit there was a problem with the way he dealt with the situation, and a problem that too many other senior pastors were HEAVILY involved in the scam, and MAKING MONEY from it.
It is one rule for the money pastors, and another rule for the rest of the plebus revivalae.
Not surprising seeing that RCI is a non-christian new-age sect, why should we expect christian morals from them?
They are only doing what comes NATURALLY.
--------------------------------------------------------------
“Preach the Gospel at all times and when necessary use words.”
|
|
spitchips
|
179#
|
Rank:Rookier
Score:1700
Posts:82
Registered:24/10/2008
|
Re:Rci pastor has been uncovered
(Date Posted:25/03/2009 21:45:00)
"Simon then said that the Duker affair had nothing to do with RCI and was a matter between him (Duker) and HIS God."
A subtle but definite 'pulling back, not my problem', by Simon. Simon obviously now worships ANOTHER God.
Chips
|
|
outaegypt
|
180#
|
Rank:Poster Venti I
Score:6410
Posts:304
Registered:22/06/2006
|
Reply To FreedomFound
(Date Posted:27/03/2009 05:39:17)
Reply to FreedomFound (21/03/2009 23:10:07)
If there is anyone from RCI reading...I would be extremely interested to know the response that the church gave to the current airings on ACA...
Please fill us in...oh to be a fly on the wall! My fly's tell me... There has always been an undercurrent of people that have felt something is not all as it seems. Bend the Rules for some and crucify others, Some have spoken up, some have left rci and others have been silent for fear of retribution. And of course there will always be those that are too blind or stupid to even have a single thought of their own. People are questioning, not just accepting anymore what they have been told by the Pastors, the details given never quite made sense, individuals are approaching the right people for actual facts, wanting evidence and understanding not just words of convincing. People are realizing just because words come from a Pastor doesn't mean it's factual and now being revealed even truth..
A Brisbane Pastor recently made the comment that the X members that spoke out have nothing to complain about they were paid back. Opens his mouth and shows his stupidity every time. Does he actually know that?, How does he know that? Has he seen evidence to support the words confidently flowing from his mouth? Who told him that?? Simon, Victor maybe Matthew or Glenn?
Did he ever bother to ask the injured parties? Doubt it! He has no clue to the extent of ATO Debts they and many others have been left with by deception.
There have been some ludicrous accusations made by the Dukers about the Williams and repeated as facts in Pastors meetings by Simon; pilfering money, over payments, excess wages, squandering money, greed. It's 4 years too late for RCI to start claiming it had nothing to do with it(It's between Duker and His God) There is far too much evidence to the contrary. The treatment they received was and still is appalling. Any body that remembers Craig Williams knows he's one of the straightest, honest men you would ever meet.
The x members had openly offered their personal financial statements as evidence to dispute and prove that documents supplied and given to other Pastors and accusations made by the Dukers to discredit and defame them were falsified and untrue, CW even offered the services of a professional accountant and solicitor to validate authenticity and answer any questions. They offered transparency as they continue to claim they have nothing to hide.
Simon in an email to them said "I should have gone surfing!" Such is the depth of care of the head shepherd of RCI caring for the sheep.
Simon said that Glenn Duker told him he had fixed everything. Simon and Victor then repeated that as Gospel in a Pastors meeting and to the Assembly with no evidence or confirmation from the injured party or statement of evidence. V & S wouldnt hear these agreements were in default because they refused to take their calls and deleted emails from them unread showing the breaches of agreements and continuing defaults. Every date for settlements had been breached and not fulfilled. Victor and Simon have admitted Glenn had lied to them on several occasions but still chose to support him even though they were given evidence to the contrary. Is a 6 Million and then a further 34 Million Liquidation debt evidence to support a man who's working to fix things.
Simon also admitted in the Supreme Court Examinations that he didnt bother to look at the evidence he had received by post and by email from 3 other victims he was to busy he had too many emails.
Simon can claim it is between Glen and his God and RCI had no involvement all he likes but the Courts will conclude differently.
Long Gone are the glory days of abuse and degradation in the 'Red room' and having no accountability to the people under your care.
Simon didn't want to adjudicate what a load of crock. What is chastening, correction for reproof, rebuking.... When are the people of RCI going to stand up and stop these unscriptural men pretending to be Pastors of God from treating them like simple gullible fools.
--------------------------------------------------------------
As I hear it, I'll repeat it,
Its up to you if you believe it!
Allegation big and small,
soon revealed before us all.
outa here- Outa Egypt!
|
|
spitchips
|
181#
|
Rank:Rookier
Score:1700
Posts:82
Registered:24/10/2008
|
Re:Rci pastor has been uncovered
(Date Posted:27/03/2009 20:31:36)
Reply to outaegypt Actually, I had to force myself to watch this ACA programme having heard so much about the situation here on the forum from yourself and others. Some part of me wanted the accounts I'd been reading about to be exaggerated or perhaps amplified for effect. My heart did a bit of a skip when the old logo came on the screen. But watch it I did. I remember fondly the Williams family from Sydney when we were all in RCI together. Seeing them 'in the flesh' on tv really bought home to me that these are real people, with real losses. The honesty and transparency was very evident even from the small amount Mrs Williams had to say. What a cruncher when she tells, with such confidence, that God hates a liar. What an outrageous scandal brought down on RCI because of greed and pride. Outa, you must have some good fly on the wall to be able to share the information with us. Let's hope and pray that these events propel those inside rci/rfand rf to the outside world in droves. cheers Chips
|
|
Disciple(Ex-member)
|
|
|
Re:Rci pastor has been uncovered
(Date Posted:28/03/2009 13:24:34)
Reply to outaegypt (27/03/2009 05:39:17)
Reply to FreedomFound (21/03/2009 23:10:07)
If there is anyone from RCI reading...I would be extremely interested to know the response that the church gave to the current airings on ACA...
Please fill us in...oh to be a fly on the wall! My fly's tell me...
|
I love your righteous anger Outa ... This story is far from over and my eyes and dvd recorder are still tuned in daily.. Eric
|
|
outaegypt
|
183#
|
Rank:Poster Venti I
Score:6410
Posts:304
Registered:22/06/2006
|
Re:Rci pastor has been uncovered
(Date Posted:29/03/2009 04:22:57)
My Mother always said "Be sure your sin's will find you out"..."it might take a while but some where, sometime it will find you out" Truth has been a long time coming for the families and individuals so detrimentally affected not just by the Dukers deceit but by those they called their Pastors, Brothers and Sisters.
The Creditors report from the Supreme Court Examinations has been released. I have had a portions of it sent to me, as you can imagine it is a lengthy document, with a lot of information irrelevant to our interests.
The following is from the Liquidators findings.
•At the time of my Appointment the Report as to the Affairs prepared by one of the Directors, Ms Lorilea Duker revealed a Deficiency of approx $5.5 Million. (The original 'Claim' of bankruptcy from Dukers was under $3Million) I believe it to be incomplete, it fails to correctly calculate amounts due from undisclosed creditors. The deficiency is to be more likely in the range of $8-$10 Million.
• During the entirety of the companies trading period it operated at a loss. This is despite the fact that in various Offer Documents given to investors, the company and Mr Glenn Duker kept projecting that it would make profits.
• While Mr Duker maintains that the company initial made profits on it's interest in certain individual developments the fact is that the company's audited financial statements show that it made significant losses in every financial year.
•It was concluded that when RVP was trading with Mr Glenn Duker, Ms Lorilea Duker and Mr Stephen McCauley as directors, (Stephen MaCauley was replaced by Matthew Duker), the company during it's entirety was operating at a loss. It's prospectus had claimed profit by the 'Independent' Auditor Walker who was discovered to have shares and other financial arrangements in the company, a gross conflict of interest, when in fact the company had run at a continual loss from the beginning thus trading insolvent.
•It would appear initially that there had been a concerted effort to conceal books and records of the company.
If the Public Examinations had not been initiated, I do not believe I would have received such information including numerous company records which had been stored at the Gold Coast and not disclosed to me until after court orders were issued. The level of assistance was minimal and hindered my efforts to expeditiously progress my investigations. I note that I also received minimal co-operation from Mr Allan Walker.
• Under the Act a Director of a company is required to provide the liquidator of the company's financial records, in addition to dealing with and attending on the liquidator when reasonably required. Such measures are designed to enable to the liquidator to conduct an orderly investigation into a company's financial affairs. It was noted that the investigation was hindered and made difficult by continual non compliance by Ms Lorilea Duker and Mr Glenn Duker.
• Despite my efforts to try to obtain financial records and general assistance from the Directors, the level of assistance was minimal and hindered my ability to investigate the company's affairs. Notwithstanding my continual attempts to seek co-operation from the Directors and Mr Walker nothing of any substance was initially forthcoming. Supporting the above point is an email from Mr Walker to Mr Glenn Duker . He states to Mr Glenn Duker "I would not have an informal meeting with these people"
• Ultimately Given the level of inadequate assistance from the above parties I determined it necessary to conduct Public Examinations in the Supreme Court.
• I am firmly of the belief that with out Public examinations the various information that I now have in my possession would not have otherwise provided by the Directors not withstanding their obligations under the corporations Act Whilst I am still not in possession of certain company records, I now have a reasonable quantity of the companies records.
Mr Glenn Duker lodged a debtors petition with the insolvency and trustee service Aust. declaring himself bankrupt. several of the creditors listed in his statement of affairs relate to personal guarantees given in respect to the company. He listed that he owes $34.5 Million. Such amount does not include any amounts that I will be claiming in his estate. Such a claim would amount to many millions of dollars.
• Confirmation by Mr Glenn Duker during ASIC Investigations that he knew the company was incurring losses even though the Offer Documents were projecting profits.
• During the Public Examinations, Mr Glenn Duker confirmed he had back dated some JVA's in the lead up to the interview with ASIC. This appears to have been done based that ASIC were undertaking on the level of investigation
• The company records show the letter from ASIC states "the evidence before us indicates that RVP has a history of delaying payments due to investors and then making optimistic promises, which are not always fulfilled.
• Various complaints had been lodged with ASIC regarding the conduct of the company which ultimately culminated in a review being undertaken by ASIC and subsequent interviews
• Late FEB 08 Mr Glenn Duker and Mr Matthew Duker resigned as directors leaving Ms Lorilea Duker as sole Director.It would have been necessary for the company to have altered it's trading status, ie convert back to a private company as it no longer had the requisite number of directors to continue to be an unlisted public company. At the time of my appointment such alteration(whilst according to Mr Glenn Duker and Mr Walker an application had been made) had not been noted on ASIC records.
• In order to finance the property developments, the company required funding, effectively obtaining funding under the small scales offering provisions under the Act. This effectively allows a company to raise up $2 Million per annum from not more than 20 investors. ASIC was of the view that the company had breached such provisions of the Act and did not have have an Australian Financial Services License.
•Mr Glenn Duker, Mr Matthew Duker and Mr Stephen McCauley were also Pastors of Revival Centres International. The significance of this is that various creditors of the company are members of RCI. It is generally considered that Pastors are in a position of trust and should not be involved in business dealings with their parishioners. Individuals were not in all instances getting access to completely independent legal and financial advice. Furthermore individuals in most cases had little involvement and invariably have advised that Mr Glenn Duker had ultimate control and they trusted him, Particularly as he was a Pastor and a qualified Solicitor.
•It would seem that very few properties were the properties held in the companies name. Therefore in these circumstances the company had no legal control over the ability of the property to be dealt with. The significance of this is two fold.
• Firstly the companies financial records had entries in effect implying or confirming that it was the registered proprietor of such companies which is incorrect. Secondly the investors (ie preference share holders) of the company were under the mistaken belief that the company had legal title to the properties and were in control of the same when it was not. The offer documents continued to predict profits even after the company had been operating for a number of years at a loss.
•Mr Longfield appointed Pastor Victor Samoilenko to mediate the dispute even though Mr Samoilenko also had entered into property transactions with the company and was a co- Pastor with Mr Glenn Duker. My investigation into this JVA are continuing as it is unclear whether there were any unrecorded payments that may have been made.
As at this date it is unclear as to whether RCI took appropriate and timely steps to deal with the issues it had been made aware of.
•The findings recommend Prosecution of Lorilea Duker, Glenn Duker and Matthew Duker Mr Glenn Duker, Ms Lorilea and Matthew Duker- separate claims for trading whilst insolvent, breach of fiduciary duties and breach of Directors duties. (NB Possibly Steve MaCauley also as he was a director on audited accounts, declaring profits whilst the company was trading at loss/trading insolvent . These are not fines but jail-able offenses.)
• Regarding the financial positions of Ms Duker and Mr Matthew Duker whilst they may not have significant assets in their own personal names, it would appear that there are assets held in other names/ structures.
A Summary of offences:
. Failure by the officer to exercise a reasonable degree of care and diligence in the exercise of his powers and the discharge of his duties.
. Failure to Act in Good Faith.
. Making improper use of position as an officer or employer, to gain directly or indirectly an advantage. . Making improper use of information acquired by virtue of his position, . Reckless or Intentional Dishonesty in failing to exercise duties in good faith for proper purpose. Use of position or information of dishonesty to gain advantage or cause detriment. . Contravening an order against taking part in management of a corporation. . Taking part in management of corporation while being an insolvent under an administration. . Acting as a director or promoter or taking part in the management of a company within 5 years after conviction or imprisonment for various offenses. . Dishonest failure to observe requirements on making loans to directors or related companies. . Paying dividends except out of profits . Failure to keep proper accounting records . Obstruction of Auditor . Failure to comply with requirements for financial statement preparation . Performing or exercising a function or power as officer while a company is under administration. . Unauthorized dealing with company's property during administration . Failure by directors to assist administrator, deliver records and provide information . Failure to deliver up books and records to administrator . Failure to disclose property, conceal or removed property, concealed a debt due to the company, altered books of the company, fraudulently obtained credit on behalf of the company, material omission from Report as to Affairs or false representation to Creditors.
1 Thessalonians 4:6 That no man go beyond and defraud his brother in any matter; because the Lord is the avenger of all such, as we have forewarned you and testified.
Proverbs 17: 15 He that justifieth the Wicked and he that condemneth the just, even they BOTH are abomination to the LORD.
Simon and Victor were forewarned with evidence and given testimony to many of the legal findings above. Simon and Victor have both publicly professed their support of the wicked and condemned the just.
Rebuke for repentance may have led to such a different out come. As much as there is righteous anger, there is also such deep sadness. Everyone deserves that chance to be chastened and have opportunity to come to repentance.
--------------------------------------------------------------
As I hear it, I'll repeat it,
Its up to you if you believe it!
Allegation big and small,
soon revealed before us all.
outa here- Outa Egypt!
|
|
Fled
|
184#
|
Rank:Not quite new
Score:750
Posts:33
Registered:05/11/2005
|
RE:Rci pastor has been uncovered
(Date Posted:30/03/2009 01:45:03)
|
|
outaegypt
|
185#
|
Rank:Poster Venti I
Score:6410
Posts:304
Registered:22/06/2006
|
Re:Rci pastor has been uncovered
(Date Posted:30/03/2009 02:14:13)
Pastor's $40 million bad debt Ken Vernon March 30th, 2009 A FORMER Gold Coast Pentecostal pastor who believes salvation lies in speaking in tongues is not talking about allegations he owes millions to fellow believers. Glenn Duker was a leader of the Gold Coast branch of the Christian fundamentalist sect Revival Centres International, but he had another side -- dealing in the property market, buying and selling houses, and leaving a trail of debts amounting to almost $40 million. Mr Duker filed for bankruptcy in January following the collapse of one his companies, RVP Group Limited. His creditors are angry and frustrated that he has proved so evasive as they chase their money. The former Mermaid Beach millionaire is reportedly living in Melbourne. According to a liquidator's report by Bruce Gleeson, of Jones Partners Chartered Accountants, released last Friday, there may even be grounds for more serious legal action against Mr Duker, his wife Lorilea and his former company auditor Allan Walker. Mr Gleeson had to force information out of the Dukers via public examinations in the NSW Supreme Court in November last year. "The level of assistance and co-operation provided by the directors (and the external accountant) has been minimal," says Mr Gleeson's Information Package for Creditors. "My initial and subsequent demands for financial information pertaining to the company, as well as the location and delivery up of books and records, were ignored." Mr Gleeson's examination of the Dukers' affairs suggest they were trading while insolvent as far back as 2005 and that 'there are grounds to establish a case against the company directors'. Mr Gleeson says Glenn Duker would have known he had no money from July, 2005, and yet he continued to chalk up debts. The liquidator is seeking funds of up to $200,000 to pursue legal action against Mr Walker because of his involvement in the demise of the Duker financial empire. But it is not just another case of a property tycoon falling on hard times and taking his creditors with him. There are some who believe the solicitor and now ex-pastor targeted fellow believers from his Gold Coast congregation in some of his schemes. Internet forums and media reports last year canvassed several disgruntled church members. Some had huge amounts, but Mr Duker walked away from the debts. Experts trying to unravel the intricately tangled web of companies controlled by the Dukers say Glenn Duker could end up being one of the biggest bankrupts in recent Australian history. Mr Duker's activities have been under the spotlight before, with the Australian Securities Investments Commission admitting it investigated the pastor's business dealings in 2006. However, most of the people directly involved in the investments were from Mr Duker's own church and declined to offer statements so the investigation stalled. The Revival church, which sprang up in Melbourne and has since spread overseas, says on its website that: "We are a church of people who have come together following an amazing personal experience of the power and presence of God. Each individual church member has received the Holy Spirit with the same conclusive evidence accepted in Bible days -- we speak in other tongues." But Mr Duker is not speaking publicly to anyone. He was unable to be contacted by The Bulletin and his creditors say he will not return calls. He is no longer at his prestigious Hilda Street address in Mermaid Beach, which he sold for $2 million in June last year, and he does not attend the Revival church at Mermaid Beach any more. The Dukers set up an intricate web of companies -- including literally His and Her companies (His Company Pty Ltd; Her Company Pty Ltd) -- that their profits were funnelled through. The liquidator's report said Mr Duker mainly utilised what are called 'joint venture agreements' (JVAs). A characteristic of such a scheme is that the 'partner' who sells his house for instance, would remain -- often without precise knowledge -- the registered proprietor of the 'sold' property and at the same time the principle borrower on a mortgage and hence liable if for any reason the mortgage is not paid. In many instances people entering such agreements with Mr Duker did not obtain independent legal advice before signing agreements.
--------------------------------------------------------------
As I hear it, I'll repeat it,
Its up to you if you believe it!
Allegation big and small,
soon revealed before us all.
outa here- Outa Egypt!
|
|
outaegypt
|
186#
|
Rank:Poster Venti I
Score:6410
Posts:304
Registered:22/06/2006
|
Re:Rci pastor has been uncovered
(Date Posted:30/03/2009 02:20:39)
Vendors, bankers red-faced over DukerKen Vernon March 30th, 2009 SYDNEY lawyer Michael Hayter, who investigated the Duker operation, says the Gold Coast events were simple to explain. Mr Duker would approach people selling top-end houses and offer them a sweet deal -- about 75 per cent of the asking price up front and then a high interest on the remainder for a period until the whole price was paid. But once he had access to the property deeds, Mr Duker would allegedly approach the financing bank and take out a mortgage for as much as the property was worth and transfer the money into one of his many companies. That meant he had the full value of the house in cash for only 75 per cent outlay. If he continued to pay the mortgage payments it is possible nobody would know what was going on. If, as was the case in many instances, mortgage repayments were not made by the company, the bank would eventually be forced to sell the property -- leaving both the bank and the previous owner red-faced and a lot poorer.
(Message edited by outaegypt On 30/03/2009 02:23:47)
--------------------------------------------------------------
As I hear it, I'll repeat it,
Its up to you if you believe it!
Allegation big and small,
soon revealed before us all.
outa here- Outa Egypt!
|
|
outaegypt
|
187#
|
Rank:Poster Venti I
Score:6410
Posts:304
Registered:22/06/2006
|
Re:Rci pastor has been uncovered
(Date Posted:30/03/2009 02:22:22)
Pastor: Duker 'just another victim of the crash' Ken Vernon March 30th, 2009 GLENN Duker is not likely to be disowned by his Gold Coast church because of a string of bad debts. Pastor Simon Longfield of Revival Centres International's main Melbourne centre said the church 'does not throw people out of the church just because they are bankrupt'. "The church's position is that we have no idea if Glenn is one of the good guys or one of the bad guys -- that is up to the courts to decide," he said. "What I can tell you is that the real story, as far as I know it, is nothing like it has been portrayed." According to Pastor Longfield, Mr Duker is merely one of a number of victims of the sudden financial crash of last year that brought down any number of investors and spruikers who assumed the boom times would go on and property would become endlessly more expensive. The next creditors meeting is in Sydney on April 22 when liquidator Bruce Gleeson will explain his findings to those owed money by the Dukers. He expects things to get nastier from here on. "Over the next 12 months, the main activities I will be focusing on are as follows," he reports. "Assuming funding is obtained (for litigation), commencing recovery actions against (former company auditor Allan) Walker regarding a claim for negligence and conflict of interest. "Commencing trading whilst insolvent actions against Mr Glenn Duker (his bankrupt estate), Ms Lorilea Duker and Mr Matthew Duker (Glenn's brother). "Evaluating and if appropriate conducting further investigations/public examinations of other persons who may have aided the company in procuring funding for individuals that it had JVAs (joint venture agreements) with and did not disclose commission trials."
--------------------------------------------------------------
As I hear it, I'll repeat it,
Its up to you if you believe it!
Allegation big and small,
soon revealed before us all.
outa here- Outa Egypt!
|
|
outaegypt
|
188#
|
Rank:Poster Venti I
Score:6410
Posts:304
Registered:22/06/2006
|
Re:Rci pastor has been uncovered
(Date Posted:30/03/2009 02:24:30)
March 30th, 2009 Builder rues the day he investedKen Vernon
THOSE left high and dry say that because Mr Duker was at once their pastor as well as their partner and their lawyer, he was in a powerful position and they trusted him. Gold Coast builder Craig O'Brien says he rues the day he met the smooth-talking pastor. "He was so believable. He told me he wanted to buy the house I was selling for $1.35 million, and that he would give me 75 per cent up front and pay me 25 per cent interest on the remainder for the 12 months it would take to pay off the rest," he told The Bulletin. "I wasn't stupid, I did the right thing and went to a lawyer, had the papers drawn up to protect myself -- or so I thought -- in case he went bankrupt. "I understand he took out a mortgage on the house but never paid the bank anything. The next thing I know the bank sold the house and Duker was gone and I was left holding the bag for the remaining 25 per cent of the purchase price. "My only option now is to sue my lawyer -- and that won't be easy." Hundreds of people on the Gold Coast, in Melbourne and as far away as Western Australia, allegedly entered into similar deals. Many of Mr Duker's complex web of companies -- estimated to number between 30 and 80 -- are now either in the process of being struck off or under administration. At present the ex-pastor -- he was sacked from his Gold Coast position, but is still a member of the church -- is believed to be holed up in Melbourne, protected by church members who refuse to reveal his whereabouts or his telephone numbers. Mr Hayter said that as late as last December Duker had told him he was earning up to $3000 a week from a Gold Coast law firm he still owned.
--------------------------------------------------------------
As I hear it, I'll repeat it,
Its up to you if you believe it!
Allegation big and small,
soon revealed before us all.
outa here- Outa Egypt!
|
|
Disciple(Ex-member)
|
|
|
Reply To outaegypt
(Date Posted:30/03/2009 23:17:17)
Reply to outaegypt (29/03/2009 04:22:57) My Mother always said "Be sure your sin's will find you out"..."it might take a while but some where, sometime it will find you out" Truth has been a long time coming for the families and individuals so detrimentally affected not just by the Dukers deceit but by those they called their Pastors, Brothers and Sisters.
The Creditors report from the Supreme Court Examinations has been released. I have had a portions of it sent to me, as you can imagine it is a lengthy document, with a lot of information irrelevant to our interests.
The following is from the Liquidators findings.
blessings
Eric
|
|
outaegypt
|
190#
|
Rank:Poster Venti I
Score:6410
Posts:304
Registered:22/06/2006
|
Reply To Disciple
(Date Posted:30/03/2009 23:28:56)
"If love doesn't win, Evil will only devour itself..." ..Pope John Paul II..
Would you like 'lies' with that? oops typo!!!! 
--------------------------------------------------------------
As I hear it, I'll repeat it,
Its up to you if you believe it!
Allegation big and small,
soon revealed before us all.
outa here- Outa Egypt!
|
|
CAGD
|
191#
|
Registered:21/01/2009
|
Re:Rci pastor has been uncovered
(Date Posted:31/03/2009 08:02:53)
When this was pointed out to me as such an blatant obvious contradiction from Simon Longfield to state, I had to pass it on....
EXCUSE From Simon Longfield, like The Duker's, Simon diverts blame to some thing or some one else, again...never where the truth lies. QUOTED in Supreme Court Examinations: According to Pastor Longfield, Mr Duker is merely one of a number of victims of the sudden financial crash of last year 2008, that brought down any number of investors and spruikers who assumed the boom times would go on and property would become endlessly more expensive.
(Note: Losses shown below from 2003, Property Boom time dropped in 2005, Duker's losses occurred long before 2008 as claimed by Longfield(Genius). Last Years Financial Crash was a convenient and timely excuse for Longfield to divert the truth, it sounded reasonable, unless of course you stop to think. Earlier the Dukers, Longfield and Samoilenko attempted to blame the Williams, to those in the church to discredit and defame them, It was noted that not one shred of evidence was offered to even attempt to support that falsehood in the Findings Examinations.
TRUTH: Findings from the Supreme Court Examinations Liquidators Report.
It was concluded that when RVP was trading with Mr Glenn Duker, Ms Lorilea Duker and Mr Stephen McCauley as directors, (Stephen MaCauley was replaced by Matthew Duker), the company during it's entirety was operating at a loss. It's prospectus had claimed profit by the 'Independent' Auditor Walker, who was discovered to have shares and other financial arrangements in the company, a gross conflict of interest, when in fact the company had run at a continual loss from the beginning (2003) thus trading insolvent.
Official findings: Audited Financial Statements show significant loss every financial year. a. Year ended 2003: loss $36,057. b. Year ended 2004: loss $133,984. c. Year ended 2005: loss $829.895 d. Year ended 2006: loss $991,682 e. Year ended 2007: loss $1,621,416.
OFFICIAL REPORT FINDINGS- Failure of the company can be attributed to: 1. The company procured funding in the same way 'ponzi' schemes works- typically the business is not sustainable. 2. INEPT MANAGEMENT 3. Poor financial accounting controls 4. Reliance on external accountant/ auditor who had significant review and familiarity threats under the Act. 5. Inaccuracies in the financial statements which had the effect over overstating assets and understating liabilities 6. Failure of Mr Walker as auditor to qualify the company accounts
No where here does the Liquidators Findings support Simon Longfields inaccurate excuse of -Mr Duker is merely one of a number of victims of the sudden financial crash of last year 2008. The Dukers were already losing investors money as early as 2003 and just kept going, taking and borrowing, defrauding, more and more with no moral or ethical conscience. While they were losing other peoples money they lived the high life and continue to do so.
Note: Property Boom time as referred to by Simon Longfield, dropped in 2005 but yet The Dukers losses were increasing and The Duker's continued to wildly buy more properties, when considering the already increasing accumulated losses, it would have been the time to sell or hold. Yet RVP's prospectus had falsely continued to claimed profit.
My rhetorical question is this...If Simon continues to Refuse and to acknowledge the findings of the Supreme Court and continues to feed the people false information and has exacerbated further harm to the people suffering because of the Dukers who are deceptive defrauders, what else has he refused to acknowledge as truth and who else will he harm.
This has gone beyond what you would call Spiritual discernment, this has reached the Level of NO Moral conscience, and that seems to be the common denominator between a number of men involved in this disgusting injustice.
These same men are the Spiritual Leader's of RCI, they represent you. Be obedient to the over site, they care for your soul? They are disobedient to the word of God, and they care for themselves.
Sadly, I think it will be like watching the herd of swine given to Demons that just follow each other blindly over the cliff into the pit, it seems that there are non amongst you found with faith.
PEOPLE YOU SHOULD BE DISGUSTED AND OUTRAGED AT THE DUKERS AND YOUR PASTORS BEHAVIOUR.
(Message edited by CAGD On 31/03/2009 08:11:01)
|
|
Didaktikon
|
192#
|
Rank:Old Forum Fogey
Score:31600
Posts:1517
Registered:29/08/2007
|
Reply To Disciple
(Date Posted:31/03/2009 19:16:41)
All,
I've often found that having a large and well-informed network of contacts is a handy thing, and such has proven to be the case yet again. I have in my possession a copy of the 41 pages long "Information Package to Creditors prepared by the insolvency specialists, "Jones Partners. My brief reading of the document to date has left me absolutely amazed at the extent of the duplicitous conduct engaged in by the Dukers. If Simon Longfield believes that insufficient evidence has been established to prove intentional conduct to deceive and defraud on the part of two of his pastors (one of whom remains such), then he is clearly living in ignorant bliss!
Blessings,
Ian
--------------------------------------------------------------
Vivos voco, mortuos plango
website: www.pleaseconsider.info email: didaktikon@gmail.com
|
|
Disciple(Ex-member)
|
|
|
Reply To outaegypt
(Date Posted:31/03/2009 23:41:57)
Reply to outaegypt (30/03/2009 02:24:30) March 30th, 2009 Builder rues the day he investedKen Vernon
THOSE left high and dry say that because Mr Duker was at once their pastor as well as their partner and their lawyer, he was in a powerful position and they trusted him. Gold Coast builder Craig O'Brien says he rues the day he met the smooth-talking pastor. "He was so believable. He told me he wanted to buy the house I was selling for $1.35 million, and that he would give me 75 per cent up front and pay me 25 per cent interest on the remainder for the 12 months it would take to pay off the rest," he told The Bulletin. "I wasn't stupid, I did the right thing and went to a lawyer, had the papers drawn up to protect myself -- or so I thought -- in case he went bankrupt. "I understand he took out a mortgage on the house but never paid the bank anything. The next thing I know the bank sold the house and Duker was gone and I was left holding the bag for the remaining 25 per cent of the purchase price. "My only option now is to sue my lawyer -- and that won't be easy." Hundreds of people on the Gold Coast, in Melbourne and as far away as Western Australia, allegedly entered into similar deals. Many of Mr Duker's complex web of companies -- estimated to number between 30 and 80 -- are now either in the process of being struck off or under administration. At present the ex-pastor -- he was sacked from his Gold Coast position, but is still a member of the church -- is believed to be holed up in Melbourne, protected by church members who refuse to reveal his whereabouts or his telephone numbers. Mr Hayter said that as late as last December Duker had told him he was earning up to $3000 a week from a Gold Coast law firm he still owned.
Hi Outa,
I was thinking that Victor Samoilenko would certainly appreciate it if the Townsville Bulletin latched on to this story and published it for all of Townsville to read over a morning cupper ... I'm sure Victor would love it.
|
|
CAGD
|
194#
|
Registered:21/01/2009
|
Re:Rci pastor has been uncovered
(Date Posted:02/04/2009 19:14:25)
There are a lot of people finally seeing this situation is not just about ignorant incompetence over the Duker handling by Simon Longfield and Victor Samoilenko but collusion, a conscience decision to deceive and divert the truth.
For the Locals- 'The Melbourne Age' this Sunday 5 April, will be running a further piece. It will possibly be picked up by the Brisbane Sun and run the same day. For those not Melb local you can order The Age at your local New's Agent.
No sign of this going away or even dying down, the momentum and interest amongst the Media is growing rapidly.
|
|
outaegypt
|
195#
|
Rank:Poster Venti I
Score:6410
Posts:304
Registered:22/06/2006
|
Re:Rci pastor has been uncovered
(Date Posted:04/04/2009 00:59:50)
How quickly attitudes can change in a few days when a 'bit' of attention is Drawn to your filthy laundry..... March 30th, 2009 GLENN Duker is not likely to be disowned by his Gold Coast church because of a string of bad debts. Pastor Simon Longfield of Revival Centres International's main Melbourne centre said the church 'does not throw people out of the church just because they are bankrupt'. The Dukers have now been ejected from the Fellowship. Matthew has been stood down as a Pastor but it has not been confirmed if he is in or out of Fellowship.
"The church's position is that we have no idea if Glenn is one of the good guys or one of the bad guys -- that is up to the courts to decide," he said. So the above statement from Pastor Simon Longfield by the action now taken above, would it be an admission that they were wrong and the Dukers we're the 'bad guys'. Which would evidently mean they victimized and defamed publicly an innocent family who have not just been shafted by the Dukers but to add to it also by the Senior Pastors- Scripturally preferring the Wicked! "What I can tell you is that the real story, as far as I know it, is nothing like it has been portrayed,(PSL) That is the First thing I will say AMEN to. Nothing that has been portrayed to the people in Revival Centres is the Real Story. Finally a true Statement. According to Pastor Longfield, Mr Duker is merely one of a number of victims of the sudden financial crash of last year that brought down any number of investors and spruikers who assumed the boom times would go on and property would become endlessly more expensive RVP/Dukers have been trading at a loss from 2003 and every year after, already trading insolvent YEARS before the 2008 Financial Crisis. Please That Isn't Sudden, it is a misleading Lie straight from the Head Pastor. Stop being so spineless people- Birds of a feather flock together, look at 'who' kept protecting the Dukers,regardless of huge amounts of evidence. You are to Fear God not Men. If this had not come into the Public Arena and been taken to the Supreme Court, the general Members of RCI would have never known any truth and just kept swallowing the Stories fed to them by Simon Longfield and Victor Samoilenko (if you need a reminder go back and listen to Victor Samoilenkos talk earlier in this thread). So Far ALL "allegations" have been proven true and so will all the other lies that have been told, this is far from over just because the Dukers are out of Fellowship.
--------------------------------------------------------------
As I hear it, I'll repeat it,
Its up to you if you believe it!
Allegation big and small,
soon revealed before us all.
outa here- Outa Egypt!
|
|
cultevasion
|
196#
|
Rank:Member IV
Score:1420
Posts:68
Registered:24/06/2006
|
Re:Rci pastor has been uncovered
(Date Posted:04/04/2009 02:27:16)
Gold Coast Bulletin 4 April 2009
(Message edited by cultevasion On 04/04/2009 03:04:47)
--------------------------------------------------------------
cultivation leads to cultevasion -
don"t reap what they sow!
|
|
Didaktikon
|
197#
|
Rank:Old Forum Fogey
Score:31600
Posts:1517
Registered:29/08/2007
|
Reply To outaegypt
(Date Posted:04/04/2009 02:59:24)
Good evening, OoE.
Well, it seems that certain chickens have now come home to roost if I may quote an oft referenced quip! For several years now Simon Longfield refused to publicly brook the possibility that the Duker's were not the up-front, honest and reliable people the RCI oversight largely presented them as being. The evidence to the contrary is now so overwhelming that it can no longer simply be ignored.
Simon Longfield should make public amends. He should apologise, unequivocally, to those who were rebuffed and dismissed as being vindictive and greedy simply for speaking the truth about Glenn Duker. He should publicly acknowledge his personal error, and accept the culpability that he shares with the likes of Victor Samoilenko in allowing such base and unchristian behaviour to be perpetrated under his very nose. He should accept that his actions (and his lack of action in some respects) have failed terribly those who trusted in him as chief shepherd of the RCI. Integrity, at least, would demand this much.
Blessings,
Ian
(Message edited by Didaktikon On 04/04/2009 03:02:38)
--------------------------------------------------------------
Vivos voco, mortuos plango
website: www.pleaseconsider.info email: didaktikon@gmail.com
|
|
drmont
|
198#
|
Registered:04/04/2009
|
Re:Rci pastor has been uncovered
(Date Posted:04/04/2009 05:26:49)
i have it on good authority that Matt Duker has been stood down, but still in fellowship.
Ian Pask will be running Frankston ,what revival that will bring!
|
|
outaegypt
|
199#
|
Rank:Poster Venti I
Score:6410
Posts:304
Registered:22/06/2006
|
Reply To drmont
(Date Posted:04/04/2009 07:23:14)
Reply to drmont (04/04/2009 05:26:49) i have it on good authority that Matt Duker has been stood down, but still in fellowship.
Ian Pask will be running Frankston ,what revival that will bring! Well excuse me if I don't jump up and down in excitement with Ian Paskes appointment, which I'm sure he see's as a big win, to finally have ousted Duker. Been there, under that rule, never again. Nothing more than another candle in the wind 'Yes man' who I have long lost any respect for. While revelations of truth are being 'forcibly' revealed upon RCI by Official 'no longer deniable' (or should that read 'no longer lie-able') Legal Documents has any body else , like say for instance, the Newly re-appointed Frankston leader -Ian Paske had the conviction of the Spirit or conviction of their Own Moral Conscience to Refute the Fact that Simon said in The Supreme Court under oath, that he had no prior knowledge of the Dukers dubious dealings before this present situation arose in 2005.
Although, Simon did have prior knowledge as one source of this information came from Ian's own complaining mouth from his own unfortunate financial involvement back with the Dukers as far back as the year 2000.
Yes there are many from Frankston Ian that remember your grievances and complaints made about the Dukers and the fact that Simon would do nothing and how cross you were.
There are others that complained to Simon earlier than 2005, how are your consciences going?? Did you make a profit? This one's for you........ Proverbs 21:6 Getting treasures by a lying tongue Is the fleeting fantasy of those who seek death. 7 The violence of the wicked will destroy them Because they refuse to do justice.
Time to spill the beans and save your souls! as said in an earlier Post, You are suppose to Fear God not man.
By the way Members of Frankston you still sit next to a defrauder and a liar, RCI may still think Matthew to be the unfortunate unwitting brother,but then you were told Glenn was innocent too ( listen to Victors talk if you need a memory refresher) The Courts do not, as the evidence and witnesses are to the contrary. Matthew will be prosecuted equally, along with Glenn, Lorilea and Mr Walker - who I recall said "Glenn hadn't been a bigger enough Bastard"- another lie -Duker certainly has been, as have the other Dukers, their behaviour towards their creditors- people they have personally caused hardship to and the Authorities, the lack of regard to their legal obligations has been nothing short of disgusting, they are with out shame or conscience.
--------------------------------------------------------------
As I hear it, I'll repeat it,
Its up to you if you believe it!
Allegation big and small,
soon revealed before us all.
outa here- Outa Egypt!
|
|
Im_out
|
200#
|
Registered:02/01/2009
|
Reply To CAGD
(Date Posted:04/04/2009 07:27:07)
Reply to CAGD (02/04/2009 19:14:25)
For the Locals- 'The Melbourne Age' this Sunday 5 April, will be running a further piece.
It will possibly be picked up by the Brisbane Sun and run the same day.
For those not Melb local you can order The Age at your local New's Agent.
- Michael Bachelard
- April 5, 2009
THE corporate regulator failed for two years to act against a company run by fundamentalist church pastor Glenn Duker, before the firm went into liquidation last year owing creditors up to $10 million.
As the inaction went on, the churchman racked up millions more in debts before he finally went bankrupt, owing another $34.5 million to 63 different creditors.
The liquidator of Mr Duker's company, RVP Group, revealed last week that the Australian Securities and Investments Commission had first investigated Mr Duker, and his company's auditor, Melbourne-based Allan Walker, as early as 2006.
The commission concluded it was likely the company was trading while insolvent but, even so, it took no action against Mr Duker or the company — a decision that creditors' representatives claim opened their clients up to millions of dollars in further losses.
The liquidator's lawyer, Michael Hayter, said the securities commission had sought undertakings from Mr Duker, "but when they were not forthcoming, I thought they should have taken action".
An ASIC spokeswoman said she could not comment on anything regarding RVP Group due to a suppression order issued as part of ongoing legal action.
A number of people face financial ruin as a result of their dealings with Mr Duker, who is accused by creditors of using his former position as a pastor at Melbourne Pentecostal church Revival Centres International to persuade them he could be trusted.
The liquidator and the bankruptcy trustees reported to creditors last week, and both asked creditors for funds to continue their investigations into Mr Duker's six-year credit binge.
Bankruptcy trustee Dennis Turner's report said Mr Duker had incurred the debts by transferring funds between a large number of trading entities "to meet cash flow requirements" by "borrowing against property that was already fully encumbered", and by providing personal guarantees "when he should have known" he could not meet them.
Mr Duker claimed that problems emerged because of a fall in property prices.
The liquidator of RVP Group, Bruce Gleeson, said Mr Duker's company had operated "much like a 'Ponzi' scheme", in which money from new investors is used to pay off old ones.
Mr Gleeson signalled he would pursue civil action through the courts against Mr Duker, his wife Lorilea, and brother Matthew, who were all company directors, if he could find the money to fund legal action. It is believed he is also considering recommending criminal action.
Matthew Duker continues in his role as a church pastor at RCI, even though Glenn Duker was stood down when trouble surfaced in 2005. The church stands by both men, and Mrs Duker. It has forced some of the creditors out of the flock.
The liquidator also intends to pursue the company's auditor, Mr Walker.
Mr Gleeson found that Mr Walker was a family friend of the directors, acted as the company's de facto accountant, and signed off annual accounts that said the company was in good shape, even though it was trading while insolvent for two years.
Chartered accountant Scott Bennison, who represents a number of creditors, but who is also a member of the Dukers' church, said that because of Mr Walker's auditing, people were "misled into investing in a company they thought was solvent, when it was trading insolvent from day one".
(Message edited by Im_out On 04/04/2009 08:16:14)
|
|
|
