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Sir_Loin
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1#
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Registered:29/06/2008
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RE:A message for Simon Longfield
(Date Posted:29/06/2008 21:49:43)
Who cares about choruses?
If people are so concerned about choruses they should buy some CD's and play it during the week.
Choruses dont make a church, or they shouldn't anyway.
One thing I have never understood is why people want to see the financial records or RCI. I know people who have had issues with RCI's finances and left, I just dont understand why?
Why should one care about the finances, RCI has a business side and if it opened up its financial records to the public it could open up a can of worms for many reasons. If people are so concerned about where their money is going then dont tithe, give money to UNICEF or world vision.
These things you mention are peripheral things which dont worry a person who is walking in the spirit.
I think when one guides themselves they no longer need the guidelines. This is the goal of the guidelines, so that the young people are directed in a way thet is good for them, and can guide themselves. The gestapo mentality is a thing of the past and the RCI look to guide moreso than punish. Although their reputation of old lingers, it is not the case anymore.
I think you have been out of the loop for a while my friend.
Concerning B-I, once again I think the individual is able to either make their own decisions, if one wants to study it let them if not thats fine also. I have never heared it preached, which shows just how old your point of view must be, sorry if i sound like im having a go at you, im not.
The RCI is in no danger, so please dont try and make something out of nothing. Every spirit filled person is an individual and we come together collectively, some choose RCI, some choose elsewhere, and it dosent matter where as long as the individual is walking in the spirit and loves the Lord.
By the way I am not Pr Simon.
Thanks
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Episkopeo
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2#
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Rank:Regular Rookier
Score:5700
Posts:267
Registered:30/08/2007
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RE:A message for Simon Longfield
(Date Posted:29/06/2008 22:28:14)
I think when one guides themselves there is no longer need for guidelines.
Reply to Sir-Loin,
I think the RCI world leader, deputy world leader and other pastors are having trouble guiding themselves. They flew in the face of their own guidelines with the recent Duker affair.
Episkopeo
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misterkilometres
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3#
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Rank:Regular Poster
Score:3100
Posts:128
Registered:11/06/2008
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RE:A message for Simon Longfield
(Date Posted:29/06/2008 22:31:41)
James,
Excellent reply. Good to hear the gestapo thing is on the way out.
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“Preach the Gospel at all times and when necessary use words.”
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Aimoo Team
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RE:A message for Simon Longfield
(Date Posted:29/06/2008 23:28:59)
This message has been deleted due to Termination of Account.
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Didaktikon
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5#
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Rank:Old Forum Fogey
Score:31600
Posts:1517
Registered:29/08/2007
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Reply To Sir%5FLoin
(Date Posted:30/06/2008 00:07:32)
Hi there, Loin
Who cares about choruses? If people are so concerned about choruses they should buy some CD's and play it during the week. Choruses dont make a church, or they shouldn't anyway.
True enough. But singing is one aspect of Christian corporate praise and worship, and we should care about the types of 'things' we sing. After all, choruses pretty much do function as popular theology for the masses, so we probably should give a rip about what's sung in church.
One thing I have never understood is why people want to see the financial records or RCI. I know people who have had issues with RCI's finances and left, I just dont understand why?
Two reasons: transparency and accountability. Something which apparently is expected to run in only the one direction in the RCI: from the ground up!
Why should one care about the finances, RCI has a business side and if it opened up its financial records to the public it could open up a can of worms for many reasons. If people are so concerned about where their money is going then dont tithe, give money to UNICEF or world vision.
Perhaps there is a very real risk (and concern) that the "flock" might be in the process of being "fleeced"?
These things you mention are peripheral things which dont worry a person who is walking in the spirit.
Okay, so what you're implying is that if a person is concerned about these things, then such a one clearly isn't walking in the Spirit?
I think when one guides themselves they no longer need the guidelines. This is the goal of the guidelines, so that the young people are directed in a way thet is good for them, and can guide themselves. The gestapo mentality is a thing of the past and the RCI look to guide moreso than punish. Although their reputation of old lingers, it is not the case anymore.
Bollocks.
Concerning B-I, once again I think the individual is able to either make their own decisions, if one wants to study it let them if not thats fine also. I have never heared it preached, which shows just how old your point of view must be, sorry if i sound like im having a go at you, im not.
The fact of the matter is this: BI is taken to be "gospel" truth in your fellowship, and the theory underpins a very large part of how your "church" interprets Scripture. As such it simply isn't as incidental as you maintain, it's actually of pivotal importance.
The RCI is in no danger, so please dont try and make something out of nothing. Every spirit filled person is an individual and we come together collectively, some choose RCI, some choose elsewhere, and it dosent matter where as long as the individual is walking in the spirit and loves the Lord.
Again, bollocks. One either is in, and a part of the Church of God, or one isn't. There is no mediating position. The RCI preaches a false gospel, believes and promotes false teachings, and as such has no part in the Body of Christ. You fellows are in considerable danger.
By the way I am not Pr Simon.
And who was it that suggested you were?
Blessings,
Ian
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Vivos voco, mortuos plango
website: www.pleaseconsider.info email: didaktikon@gmail.com
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Sir_Loin
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6#
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Registered:29/06/2008
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RE:A message for Simon Longfield
(Date Posted:02/07/2008 00:31:25)
Ian,
I appreciate your reply but it is sad you totally missed the point. You took each part out of context, maybe to get a reply, maybe to annoy me or perhaps because you are an ignoramus, in this instance its all three.
My friend, if people mind their own business and give money to the church like the bible says to then what happens once the money goes into the tithe bag is not of importance. They have given from the heart, to the church, if the church abuses that then thats on them. If people are that worried about where their money is going DONT GIVE IT. Its a simple solution.
If a persons focus is on minor issues like chourses and finances and they get up in arms about them they probably have more have deep seeded issues.
Its all quite simple - as God would have it, and people can complicate their walk by focusing on money, and as we know love of it is the root of all evil, if one makes a churches finances their focus they complicate matters un-necessarily.
The most important thing in this issue of church finances is that it is all based on the assumption that the oversight abuse it.
The RCI never begs or asks for money. Have you ever seen one of those religious shows begging for money and promising blessings from money? well thats thd benchmark and definition of - as you say "fleecing".
So bollocks is all you have to say to my guideline theory? any reasons or does it just hit home too hard and you cant break that one down?
Mate it sounds like you are more clued in on the RCI than me. I thought we used the Holy Spirit to interpret scripture and understand what the bible is saying. To be honest I know next to nothing about BI and it doesnt underpin any of my understanding, the spirit does.
Your correct on one thing though, you are either in or not in the church, that does not mean RCI or any other organisation, when the Lord returns the organisation will not meet him in the air, but many individuals all fellowshipping in organisations and some not fortunate enough to have people to fellowship with, in any case all those doing gods will and walking in the spirit will meet him when he returns, is that wrong?
Just because one belongs to an organisation does not mean they will not meet the lord in the air, its about what they are doing and their mindset as the individual.
I hope you dont fail to understand this post, if so let me know and I can try to draw pictures for you to understand.
Oh and by the way, the topic is "letter to pastor simon" and I didnt want people think I am when im not, so once again I stress I am not pastor simon.
enjoy
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Aimoo Team
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RE:A message for Simon Longfield
(Date Posted:02/07/2008 01:34:38)
This message has been deleted due to Termination of Account.
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Didaktikon
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8#
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Rank:Old Forum Fogey
Score:31600
Posts:1517
Registered:29/08/2007
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RE:A message for Simon Longfield
(Date Posted:02/07/2008 04:04:04)
Loinster,
Hmmm. Reading your offerings here, I guess it's becoming clearer why it is that you choose to identify with that particular body part/cut of meat: Sir Brains you clearly ain't. Still, probably not all your fault, you are a Revivalist, after all.
Blessings,
Ian
(Message edited by Didaktikon On 02/07/2008 04:08:35)
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Vivos voco, mortuos plango
website: www.pleaseconsider.info email: didaktikon@gmail.com
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MothandRust
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9#
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Rank:Ghost in the machine
Score:34610
Posts:1585
Registered:27/02/2004
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RE:A message for Simon Longfield
(Date Posted:02/07/2008 08:24:24)
PMSL... oh, that's harsh. Harsh Ian but, Holy Cowamondo, Revival churches are truly the religious equivalent to the unfortunate winners of the Darwin Awards - http://www.darwinawards.com/. I take it from the attitude that Sir Loinsalot is in his teens. I hope Simon Longfield does read this at some point, although I wonder if it'll all go straight over his head too.
Remember a time when giving swags of money over to smiling men with ties, thinking it was a burnt offering to god in the hope for a prosperous financial reward seemed like a good idea? Remember when thinking Revival churches were 'The Church'? Remember giving teenagers a nice long list of rules to follow? Remember pretending to love singing the same old little chorus ditties a billion times? Unreal... and it's unreal that Sir Loin Cloth is actually shaking his head while reading this and wondering why on earth people would not be pro-Revival. Another mystery huh.
British Israel is still a major part of RCI beliefs and is prominantly displayed on the website... not hidden at all. How rather embarrassing for them. Either they turned a blind eye to their fundamental doctrines being historically disproven or someone forget to delete the website - http://www.rci.org.au/bible_studies/index.htm - How long have you been in Revival anyway? Yes, it does seem people here are more 'clued' up on your own church than you are.
Hey Not Pastor Simon dude, could you draw me a picture to help explain your future posts... use crayons, scan it in, we'll all have a good laugh, and praise the lord anyway. It seems that many commentators are accusing each other of poor english comprehension skills this week, so yeah, diagrams and pictures might help.
Sorry MrKm, this forum is not for people who want the RCI to continue and grow. I'm sure it will continue but would be sorry to see it grow. And as for your request for non-negative comments, well... that's all relative. Anyone who truly cares (or 'loves') the people in RCI would be encouraging them to see it for what it is 'cause, as you can see in this thread, most of them don't even realise they have a problem in the first place.
(Message edited by MothandRust On 02/07/2008 08:26:00)
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Be nice, for everyone that you meet is fighting a harder battle - Anita Roddick
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Didaktikon
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10#
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Rank:Old Forum Fogey
Score:31600
Posts:1517
Registered:29/08/2007
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Reply To MothandRust
(Date Posted:02/07/2008 19:50:20)
Hi, Pete.
What can I say? Some people come across as simply being ignorant, yet others present as leaning more towards the 'stupid' end of the spectrum. Consequently, it can be hard to take people like the Loinster seriously, given they clearly haven't a clue about the subject at hand, or the issues that derive from the same. The ignorant I can and will attempt to help. The 'stupid'? Well, chances are they're 'stupid' for a reason.
Blessings,
Ian
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Vivos voco, mortuos plango
website: www.pleaseconsider.info email: didaktikon@gmail.com
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misterkilometres
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11#
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Rank:Regular Poster
Score:3100
Posts:128
Registered:11/06/2008
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RE:A message for Simon Longfield
(Date Posted:12/07/2008 01:08:39)
OK,
I confess that this posting by me was an intentional red herring ( for those who did not work that out by themselves - ahem loin chop).
Not that the things I said in it were not true......
Regards Mr K.
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“Preach the Gospel at all times and when necessary use words.”
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outaegypt
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12#
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Rank:Poster Venti I
Score:6410
Posts:304
Registered:22/06/2006
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RE:A message for Simon Longfield
(Date Posted:12/07/2008 07:28:13)
REPLY TO BROLGA......"Well, easy come easy go"
PSL used that exact phrase when not wanting to deal with a problem that would cause harm to people forcing them to leave, he has no respect, no care, no compassion and no concern towards the people- he is an abomination.
--------------------------------------------------------------
As I hear it, I'll repeat it,
Its up to you if you believe it!
Allegation big and small,
soon revealed before us all.
outa here- Outa Egypt!
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Guest
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Reply To Sir%5FLoin
(Date Posted:12/10/2008 01:29:48)
Reply to Sir_Loin
Ian,
I appreciate your reply but it is sad you totally missed the point. You took each part out of context, maybe to get a reply, maybe to annoy me or perhaps because you are an ignoramus, in this instance its all three.
My friend, if people mind their own business and give money to the church like the bible says to then what happens once the money goes into the tithe bag is not of importance. They have given from the heart, to the church, if the church abuses that then thats on them. If people are that worried about where their money is going DONT GIVE IT. Its a simple solution.
If a persons focus is on minor issues like chourses and finances and they get up in arms about them they probably have more have deep seeded issues.
Its all quite simple - as God would have it, and people can complicate their walk by focusing on money, and as we know love of it is the root of all evil, if one makes a churches finances their focus they complicate matters un-necessarily.
The most important thing in this issue of church finances is that it is all based on the assumption that the oversight abuse it.
The RCI never begs or asks for money. Have you ever seen one of those religious shows begging for money and promising blessings from money? well thats thd benchmark and definition of - as you say "fleecing".
So bollocks is all you have to say to my guideline theory? any reasons or does it just hit home too hard and you cant break that one down?
Mate it sounds like you are more clued in on the RCI than me. I thought we used the Holy Spirit to interpret scripture and understand what the bible is saying. To be honest I know next to nothing about BI and it doesnt underpin any of my understanding, the spirit does.
Your correct on one thing though, you are either in or not in the church, that does not mean RCI or any other organisation, when the Lord returns the organisation will not meet him in the air, but many individuals all fellowshipping in organisations and some not fortunate enough to have people to fellowship with, in any case all those doing gods will and walking in the spirit will meet him when he returns, is that wrong?
Just because one belongs to an organisation does not mean they will not meet the lord in the air, its about what they are doing and their mindset as the individual.
I hope you dont fail to understand this post, if so let me know and I can try to draw pictures for you to understand.
Oh and by the way, the topic is "letter to pastor simon" and I didnt want people think I am when im not, so once again I stress I am not pastor simon.
enjoy Liony, I agree with what you have said. I think the greatest thing an individual has is the chance to have a relationship with God without any other numpty having any bearing or effect on it. However, it is people like ourselves who are ok. There are people in RF and RCI who do not have the luxury of the wisdom that we do. I would hope what you mentioned would be common knowledge in the church, but it is not. This sums it up in a nutshell: My sister is 24yrs old and has attended RF all her life. She has just left. Problem: She doesn't know god from a bar of soap. There are those who fear God and those who don't. Those who don't stuff it up for a lot of innocent people. What an abomination in the sight of the Lord. We need to share wisdom. Wisdom is ESSENTIAL. By the way i don't go to RCI. What is up with that morality policy? That is so far from the bible it isn't funny. How do they not see that?
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Episkopeo
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14#
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Rank:Regular Rookier
Score:5700
Posts:267
Registered:30/08/2007
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RE:A message for Simon Longfield
(Date Posted:13/10/2008 00:17:10)
(My friend, if people mind their own business and give money to the church like the bible says to then what happens once the money goes into the bag is not of importance)
Sir_Loin,
You are quite right - the money that goes into the bag is of no importance whatsoever. In my years in RCI/RF I have seen the bag passed from hand to hand with very little given, hardly enough for the pastor's lunch money. So where does the money come from to finance pastor's salaries, new halls, campsites, conventions, pastors' trips to visit overseas assemblies? Certainly not from the meagre "tithes" and offerings bags.
Well, I asked family members and they were, without exception, tight lipped on this subject - giving no information away. I can only assume that there must be some behind the scenes agreements (once one becomees established in Rev) whereby amounts were paid directly to the pastor or a bank account.
Assuming this to be the case and the pastor (often being the sole keeper of the books) in my opinion would have a moral duty to have keep records, hold audits and open the books for inspection, at least to the elders of the church. Also to seek wise counsel in making decisions concerning how the church funds are spent. This, also, so that he himself is protected.
If there is any form of accountability, no-one seems to know about it.
Epi
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Episkopeo
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15#
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Rank:Regular Rookier
Score:5700
Posts:267
Registered:30/08/2007
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RE:A message for Simon Longfield
(Date Posted:13/10/2008 00:23:01)
Sorry about the errors. Should read (becomes) - (to keep records)
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Disciple(Ex-member)
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Reply To Episkopeo
(Date Posted:14/10/2008 01:48:34)
Reply to Episkopeo
(My friend, if people mind their own business and give money to the church like the bible says to then what happens once the money goes into the bag is not of importance)
Sir_Loin,
You are quite right - the money that goes into the bag is of no importance whatsoever. In my years in RCI/RF I have seen the bag passed from hand to hand with very little given, hardly enough for the pastor's lunch money. So where does the money come from to finance pastor's salaries, new halls, campsites, conventions, pastors' trips to visit overseas assemblies? Certainly not from the meagre "tithes" and offerings bags.
Well, I asked family members and they were, without exception, tight lipped on this subject - giving no information away. I can only assume that there must be some behind the scenes agreements (once one becomees established in Rev) whereby amounts were paid directly to the pastor or a bank account.
Assuming this to be the case and the pastor (often being the sole keeper of the books) in my opinion would have a moral duty to have keep records, hold audits and open the books for inspection, at least to the elders of the church. Also to seek wise counsel in making decisions concerning how the church funds are spent. This, also, so that he himself is protected.
If there is any form of accountability, no-one seems to know about it.
Epi
That is, ALL posters with the exception of Didaktikon who is already there !!
(Message edited by Disciple On 14/10/2008 01:57:47)
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Episkopeo
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17#
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Rank:Regular Rookier
Score:5700
Posts:267
Registered:30/08/2007
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RE:A message for Simon Longfield
(Date Posted:14/10/2008 02:22:46)
Reply to Disciple on "stewardship"
I will take your advice and study the Greek meaning of the word. That is the word I should have included in the context of my post. Nothing really belongs to us we all stewards.
Epi
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Guest
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Reply To Episkopeo
(Date Posted:16/10/2008 00:04:29)
Reply to Episkopeo
Reply to Disciple on "stewardship"
I will take your advice and study the Greek meaning of the word. That is the word I should have included in the context of my post. Nothing really belongs to us we all stewards.
Epi
I commend this particular passage from the ESV,
"Now I rejoice in my sufferings for yoursake, and in my flesh I am filling up what is lacking in Crist's afflictions for the sake of his body, that is, the church, of which I became a minister according to the stewardship from God that was given me for you, to make the word of God fully known, the mystery hidden for ages and generations but now revealed to his saints " Colossians 1:24.
But the parable that speaks volumes is Luke 16:2
thanks sister
Disciple
ps the ESV is a pretty good and reliable translation and I think the closest match I have found that aligns best with the Greek NT.
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Guest
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RE:A message for Simon Longfield
(Date Posted:16/10/2008 03:55:09)
Hi all! I am a devoted follower of RCI and I have an absolutely amazing, powerful relationship with the Lord. How do I know RCI is the real deal? The Lord works in my life every day, whenever I need Him. And by the way, Pastor Simon Longfield is a champion leader and I respect him in every way! God Bless!
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MothandRust
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20#
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Rank:Ghost in the machine
Score:34610
Posts:1585
Registered:27/02/2004
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RE:A message for Simon Longfield
(Date Posted:16/10/2008 04:06:01)
Awww, that sounds super. Good for you!
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Guest
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RE:A message for Simon Longfield
(Date Posted:16/10/2008 04:32:44)
Hi all! I am a devoted follower of RCI and I have an absolutely amazing, powerful relationship with the Lord. How do I know RCI is the real deal? The Lord works in my life every day, whenever I need Him. And by the way, Pastor Simon Longfield is a champion leader and I respect him in every way! God Bless!
Obviously written by some one who either
A) Wasent ripped off by Glen Duker with Paster Siomen supporting Glen or
B) Has just recieved payment from Glen Duker or
C) Dident have enought pocket money to invest with Glen Duker.
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Aimoo Team
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RE:A message for Simon Longfield
(Date Posted:16/10/2008 04:37:40)
This message has been deleted due to Termination of Account.
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Didaktikon
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23#
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Rank:Old Forum Fogey
Score:31600
Posts:1517
Registered:29/08/2007
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Reply To Guest
(Date Posted:16/10/2008 04:48:11)
Well how-the-heck-are-ya, Guest?
I am a devoted follower of RCI and I have an absolutely amazing, powerful relationship with the Lord.
Well, what can I say? That's just peachy! Me? I'm just a plain ol' devoted follower of the Lord.
How do I know RCI is the real deal? The Lord works in my life every day, whenever I need Him.
Aahhh. So that's how we discern the "real deal"--pragmatism! Funny, but I always thought that we had to appeal to Scripture, or sumfin 
And by the way, Pastor Simon Longfield is a champion leader and I respect him in every way!
I'm certain that he is, and that you do 
God Bless!
You too, Opie.
Ian
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Vivos voco, mortuos plango
website: www.pleaseconsider.info email: didaktikon@gmail.com
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Guest
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RE:A message for Simon Longfield
(Date Posted:16/10/2008 16:25:19)
Clearly "Guest" is having a laugh.... such a person does not exist... the only happy RCI er was stuffed and mounted years ago.
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outaegypt
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25#
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Rank:Poster Venti I
Score:6410
Posts:304
Registered:22/06/2006
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Reply To Guest
(Date Posted:17/10/2008 00:18:45)
Reply to is_aimoo_guest
I am a devoted follower of RCI
And by the way, Pastor Simon Longfield is a champion leader and I respect him in every way! Claiming to be a devoted follower of RCI, what a disturbing admission. My immediate thoughts were- I am a jealous God- Have no other Idols- Let God be true and every man a liar. To claim to be a follower of RCI and not have claimed to be a follower of Christ is just so sad. But it is that blind ignorant obedience that RCI's survival depends upon - worse luck! and most of us have been there in some degree. Obviously in all your devotion and admiration of PSL, you have not realized that you are actually in the minority group of RCI PSL supporters. There are few in the Oversight that hold him personally with any respect, the respect is for being Longfields son and the mantle appointed by his Father. There is quite a growing revolt of Pastors and members who want him removed.
You say you respect him in every way. Do you know him in every way- I know you don't, if you did you couldn't claim such rot. Maybe you should get to know and experience the actual man, you might see things in a different shade of rose! things are not what they appear. Your precious Pastor is just a man living an extravagant second life style behind the scenes, his father successfully fashioned an empire for his family to be kept in position above reproach, power and wealth. Don't be shocked when things start to get uncomfortable for him, he will bail and leave you all high and dry wondering what the hell happened. I hope when you do open your eyes you can get over the disappointment that awaits you.
--------------------------------------------------------------
As I hear it, I'll repeat it,
Its up to you if you believe it!
Allegation big and small,
soon revealed before us all.
outa here- Outa Egypt!
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Guest
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RE:A message for Simon Longfield
(Date Posted:17/10/2008 02:14:42)
Hi All ! Found a church with similar beliefs to RCI but this group has gone even 'further' with the holy spirit field (imho) Excellent worship band, tongues WITH interpretation (the whole church can do it WOW !!) www.awm.org.au God Bless you
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Didaktikon
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27#
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Rank:Old Forum Fogey
Score:31600
Posts:1517
Registered:29/08/2007
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Reply To Guest
(Date Posted:17/10/2008 02:33:09)
Guest,
Yessss. And everything that you mentioned in your post has set the "alarm bells clanging"! 
Ian
(Message edited by Didaktikon On 17/10/2008 02:34:01)
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Vivos voco, mortuos plango
website: www.pleaseconsider.info email: didaktikon@gmail.com
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Guest
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Reply To Guest
(Date Posted:17/10/2008 02:52:31)
Reply to is_aimoo_guest Hi All ! Found a church with similar beliefs to RCI but this group has gone even 'further' with the holy spirit field (imho) Excellent worship band, tongues WITH interpretation (the whole church can do it WOW !!) www.awm.org.au God Bless you Big claim in the pastors Blog No warts on the body of Christ here aAnd the what we believe blurb doesn't really say anything of any significance. These days I tend to listen to what isn't said more so than what is said- if you know what I mean!!! My alarm bells are ringing a similar tune
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outaegypt
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29#
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Rank:Poster Venti I
Score:6410
Posts:304
Registered:22/06/2006
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Reply To Guest
(Date Posted:17/10/2008 03:12:00)
Oops!!! forgot to Log in....again! Sorry, OoeReply to is_aimoo_guest Hi All ! Found a church with similar beliefs to RCI but this group has gone even 'further' with the holy spirit field (imho) Excellent worship band, tongues WITH interpretation (the whole church can do it WOW !!) www.awm.org.au God Bless you Big claim in the pastors Blog No warts on the body of Christ here aAnd the what we believe blurb doesn't really say anything of any significance. These days I tend to listen to what isn't said more so than what is said- if you know what I mean!!! My alarm bells are ringing a similar tune
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As I hear it, I'll repeat it,
Its up to you if you believe it!
Allegation big and small,
soon revealed before us all.
outa here- Outa Egypt!
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Guest
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RE:A message for Simon Longfield
(Date Posted:17/10/2008 05:12:19)
whoa there tonto ! I haven't been to THIS church yet (but I'm gonna try it out) sounds really interesting. Yes I STILL believe much of what was taught in RCI but I am over the British/Israel thing and other stuff, however, I'm not ready to 'throw the baby out with the bathwater'.
I've spoken to the Pastor there and listened to a couple of cd's he sent me, very refreshing I must say.
Anyways, peace out & take care brothers.
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RE:A message for Simon Longfield
(Date Posted:17/10/2008 06:41:08)
Thanks buddy I'm looking at leaving rci soon due to the nonsense going on there after 5 years of obedient service
does anyone else know of any other churches that preach Holy Spirit tongues to be saved acts2 38 salvation doctrine. The Carrum Downs place sounds good but is at the wrong end of town for me and the kids, but Id still feel more comfortable for my wife and boys to attend a church that preaches at least that, the rest I can take or leave.
Thanks
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RE:A message for Simon Longfield
(Date Posted:17/10/2008 14:15:11)
I'll let you know what I thought after going there this Sunday, I've been searching for awhile now and wasted lots of my Sundays to be quite honest, attending differn't ones. I don't know, I'm a bit excited about this one for some reason (enough to travel from where I stay anyway)
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outaegypt
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33#
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RE:A message for Simon Longfield
(Date Posted:17/10/2008 18:30:39)
Good luck with it. We take a "three times your out" approach. If my 'alarm' bells have been significantly activated 3 times and we're not satisfied with the reasoning, We move on. We are very cautious now, but I would rather be still in the looking phase than have my family trapped in a situation like RC's. One place we went to seemed friendly and enthusiastic, but to me it was just a little too ordered. It was nothing that I initially witnessed it was just this gut instinctive feeling I had. After a few weeks I heard the Pastor talking about these people and how they were so teachable and a pleasure to God because they were willing to not question but obey their Pastor with out question""DING" STRIKE 1-Dont think The next was listening to a "sunday school teacher tell kids some as young as 2 & 3 year olds to ignore their friends and lift their hands and praise God and then laid this guilt trip on them about their attitude and whether they give priority and preference to God""DING""DING" STRIKE 2-Manipulation/guilt The next was the Pastor saying if you want to question my preaching you come prepared come with your Greek and references, because I put so much research into my preparation of talks. You better come prepared! "DING""DING""DING" STRIKE 3- Dont question my Authority Some places we visited once and we knew clearly it wasn't for us, other times it's been 12 months and It's slowly been realized that our future wasn't in that particular group. We are presently attending an smallish AOG, for the first time in years we actually feel connected and ready to let people back in. It's only been a few months but so far so good- I havn't heard any bells ...yet!!!
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As I hear it, I'll repeat it,
Its up to you if you believe it!
Allegation big and small,
soon revealed before us all.
outa here- Outa Egypt!
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Didaktikon
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34#
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Reply To Guest
(Date Posted:17/10/2008 20:53:01)
Hiya, Guest.
Thanks buddy I'm looking at leaving rci soon due to the nonsense going on there after 5 years of obedient service
does anyone else know of any other churches that preach Holy Spirit tongues to be saved acts2 38 salvation doctrine.
Hmmm. So the wrested Acts 2:38 must-speak-in-tongues-to-be-saved isn't the nonsense that's causing you to leave the RCI? Well, it should be
The Carrum Downs place sounds good but is at the wrong end of town for me and the kids, but Id still feel more comfortable for my wife and boys to attend a church that preaches at least that, the rest I can take or leave.
Unfortunately, the bit that you wish to "take", is precisely the bit that you should "leave". After all Paul himself assures us in Galatians that those who preach a false gospel are destined for absolute destruction. The Revivalist take on "salvation" is just such a "gospel".
Please don't take this the wrong way, but it sounds as if you're getting ready to jump out of the "frying pan" only to land in the "crock (as in, "of poop") pot"! I'd recommend that you reconsider. Leave the RCI by all means, but when you do, try to go to a Christian church afterwards
Blessings,
Ian
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Vivos voco, mortuos plango
website: www.pleaseconsider.info email: didaktikon@gmail.com
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RE:A message for Simon Longfield
(Date Posted:17/10/2008 23:45:32)
From what I've gathered so far, this church in Carrum Downs does NOT believe one MUST s.i.t. to be saved, it is simply something one CAN do once they are saved.'Apparently' they also believe that salvation is absolutely by grace alone, not by ANY works.One of the cds' the pastor sent me basically talked about the '5 crowns' ? handed out to faithful believers at the return of Jesus Christ, these crown rewards being faithfulness related but nothing to do with salvation.
The pastor also mentioned they lead anyone who has the desire 'into' s.i.t. and when that individual is ready, they can show them how to interpret their tongues, prophesy and the rest of the gifts as well.
I must say, I am intrigued.Oh, they also believe that the dead are dead til Christ returns (one of those things that are an absolute for me) :) I dunno, I've been very disappointed with most of the churches in my area I've tried (including an AOG one) where the pastor called me up after I mentioned to someone I had been in RCI, accusing me of being a trouble-maker and daring me to take on a 'holy-spirit filled' man ! What a plonker...
Don't worry, I will put this pastor of Another Way Ministries through his paces (in a positive way) before I 'commit' any of my time and energy, but, heck, I'm just excited to be going to see them tomorrow
BTW, many thanks for your concern Ian, bless ya, Phil
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RE:A message for Simon Longfield
(Date Posted:18/10/2008 08:55:49)
Thanks for that outaegypt Ill have a look at the AOGs, I remember Pastor Geoff Beggs putting them down during the meeting one Sunday, I sorta figured that he wouldn't do it unless they were a serious threat or offered a viable alternative, Ill have a look around on my side of town.
Ill ignore the comments from that other bloke, is he a moderator or something,??? unbelievable I thought people could come on here and express there opinions freely without fear of being put down by someone else.
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Talmid
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37#
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Rank:Regular Member
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RE:A message for Simon Longfield
(Date Posted:18/10/2008 14:37:56)
Hi Guest,
IMO you weren't being put down, rather your thinking was being challenged. But on a more serious note, you really do need to question the "Holy Spirit tongues to be saved acts2 38 salvation doctrine." It really *is* a product of not reading the bible in context, and *is* what Paul would call "another gospel". (By the way, I say that after 30 year commitment to that doctrine.)
Eight years ago I thought of leaving "Revival" and considered alternative churches apparently using similar reasoning to yours. Fortunately my eyes were opened about 18 months ago to the fact that doctrine just ain't biblical and, worse, opposes what the bible says. By the grace of God I'm now bypassing the whole "tongues = baptism in the Spirit" cul-de-sac. (Edit ... on reflection the cul-de-sac seems to often be more of a dumpster containing all sorts of hidden nasties and serious pathogens just waiting to damage or retard one's Spiritual health.) Instead, I'm now looking at places where the "apostles' doctrine" is taught, recognising tongues as *one* of the "charismata".
While you're questioning, it would be a *very* useful exercise to study the material at www.pleaseconsider.info and if you engage with Ian consider the possibility that he just might know what he's talking about.
(Message edited by Talmid On 18/10/2008 20:28:39)
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There are 10 kinds of people in the world: those who understand binary and those who don't.
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Didaktikon
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38#
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Rank:Old Forum Fogey
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Reply To Guest
(Date Posted:18/10/2008 17:25:09)
Hiya again, Guest.
Thanks for that outaegypt Ill have a look at the AOGs, I remember Pastor Geoff Beggs putting them down during the meeting one Sunday, I sorta figured that he wouldn't do it unless they were a serious threat or offered a viable alternative, Ill have a look around on my side of town.
This may come as something of a shock, but Geoff Beggs is anything but informed on these and a whole raft of similar issues Yeah, I know that Geoff likes to be viewed as something of "the" RCI theologian, but to be honest, I've never found him to be a particularly reliable guide on matters "theological". He's simply just another stock-standard RCI pastor, one who sees only what he wants to see when he opens his Bible.
Ill ignore the comments from that other bloke, is he a moderator or something,??? unbelievable I thought people could come on here and express there opinions freely without fear of being put down by someone else.
The "other bloke" would be me! Whilst I'm certainly not a moderator here, I am the most informed person that you're ever likely to come across with respect to understanding both Revivalist doctrine on the one hand, and proper Christian teaching on the other. Understand that you're perfectly free to express your opinions here, just as I'm perfectly free to point out where they part company from reality. Just remember, not all opinions are "created equal"
Blessings,
Ian
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Vivos voco, mortuos plango
website: www.pleaseconsider.info email: didaktikon@gmail.com
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RE:A message for Simon Longfield
(Date Posted:19/10/2008 01:40:43)
Hi all, (Phil) here. Well, I finally got to try out www.awm.org.au in Carrum Downs.There is only about 40 of em at that location, they also have a church in Aukland New Zealand and in Fiji ? also. The worship music was rather hillsongy with some interesting variations. What intrigued me the most was their service set up. They actually asked 2 or 3 to please stand, speak in Tongues AND interpret one after the other. It really was like something out of 1 Corinthians 14. The Pastor taught on 'How Secure is our Faith ?' Wow, very articulated and very engaging. BTW, I asked him if I had his permission to post comments on here and he said "go for it, the good and the ugly" ! Well, the upshhot of it is there really is no 'ugly' (at this point in time anyway) :) I asked him why he doesn't have specific beliefs on his website and he said he would rather people 'get off their butts and come talk about them' face to face.I saw his point.Anyways, after a prolonged discussion, which he very patiently and graciously subscribed to (in which I took notes, this is what I'm recalling here from). 1/They believe in Salvation by grace alone, not by ANY works.2/ They believe EVERY person born again is able to be shown 'how to' s.i.t. AND how to interpret THEIR tongues (1 Corinthians 14:13 ) 3/That tongues are a sign one is definitely born-again, yet s.i.t. is not a prerequisite for being born-again.4/ They believe the dead ARE dead til Jesus returns.5/ They do not profess to believe in the 'Trinity' as such but believe that God is God and Jesus is the Son of God and that the Holy Spirit is God (who is Holy and Spirit) and God gives His 'gift' of holy spirit to every person when they are born-again.They see the 'gift of holy spirit' more as the 'energized working of God'.This 'sat right' with me as someone who never could logically (or even illogically) explain the 'Trinity' Anyways, point of the matter is to me on a 'wow' factor I gave them a 9.5...only reason I didn't give them full marks was when I asked the Pastor if I could share a testimony next week he asked me to wait a little while ?! p.s. they give all people who tithe and offerings a comprehensive financial statement every 6 months
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Didaktikon
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40#
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Rank:Old Forum Fogey
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Reply To Guest
(Date Posted:19/10/2008 02:44:21)
Hi, Phil.
Ian here
If you accurately represented what the pastor explained, then the group in question is simply another heretical aberration of charismatic Christianity, albeit one that is, perhaps, closer in stripe to the 'Oneness Pentecostals' than the RCI. Perhaps you should ask the chap if they broke away from the United Pentecostal Church?
But if I were you, I'd be afraid ... very afraid
Blessings,
Ian
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Vivos voco, mortuos plango
website: www.pleaseconsider.info email: didaktikon@gmail.com
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Sea Urchin
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41#
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Rank:Poster Venti III
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RE:A message for Simon Longfield
(Date Posted:19/10/2008 06:26:10)
1/They believe in Salvation by grace alone, not by ANY works.2/ They believe EVERY person born again is able to be shown 'how to' s.i.t. AND how to interpret THEIR tongues (1 Corinthians 14:13 ) 3/That tongues are a sign one is definitely born-again, yet s.i.t. is not a prerequisite for being born-again.4/ They believe the dead ARE dead til Jesus returns.5/ They do not profess to believe in the 'Trinity' as such but believe that God is God and Jesus is the Son of God and that the Holy Spirit is God (who is Holy and Spirit) and God gives His 'gift' of holy spirit to every person when they are born-again.They see the 'gift of holy spirit' more as the 'energized working of God'.This 'sat right' with me as someone who never could logically (or even illogically) explain the 'Trinity'
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Hello Phil, I hope you don't mind if I make a comment or two?
Salvation IS by grace alone through Christ alone, I most definitely agree with that, but;
1) If speaking in tongues is a 'sign' that one is born again (although not a prerequisite) then presumably every single born again person WILL speak in tongues, is that what they're saying?
2) Why does one have to be 'shown' HOW to speak in tongues? If the gift of tongues is given by the Holy Spirit, then why does one have to be 'shown' how to do it? It's either from the Holy Spirit or it's 'learnt' from man.
3) I think this is what you're saying - that they do not believe in the Trinity but believe that God is God, Jesus is the son of God, and the Holy Spirit is God (confusing!)
I'm not very good at explaining things and I may not have it quite right but this is how I see it;
While the word 'trinity' is not mentioned in the Bible, we know that God is three in one - there are three very distinct persons that make up the Godhead. Yes, I know that in RC/RF etc there was much confusion about the trinity.
The Holy Spirit is most certainly NOT just 'the energised working' of God. The Holy Spirit is the third PERSON of the Trinity and is not a 'force' or an 'energy', He is a person not an 'it' (although I had no idea of this while I was in RC/RF)
The following scriptures have helped me to better understand the Holy Spirit;
Qualities that a person has (which a 'force' or a 'thing' does not)
1) the Holy Spirit has intellect - 1 Cor 2:10
2) the Holy Spirit has knowledge - 1 Cor 2:11
3) the Holy Spirit has emotions - Eph 4:30
4) the Holy Spirit has a will and makes decisions - Acts 16:6
5) the Holy Spirit loves - Rom 15:30
Things only a person would do (a force or thing does not)
1) He teaches you things about God and about yourself - John 14:26
2) He tells the truth - John 15:26
3) He guides - John 16:13
4) He convinces - John 16:8
5) He prays for you - Rom 8:26-27
6) He commands - Acts 13:2
My understanding of the Holy Spirit has changed quite dramatically since my RF days - we focussed so heavily on the 'power' of the Holy Spirit without knowing him as a person. I had always associated or understood the Holy Spirit as simply the ability to speak in tongues. More importantly we focussed on the Holy Spirit so much that we didn't focus on Jesus. The Holy Spirit's mission is to reveal and point the way TO and lift up the name of Jesus.
I hope I haven't confused the matter even more for you - as I said, I'm not very good at explaining things. Please look up the scriptures I have mentioned above and see if you still think of the Holy Spirit as just a 'force'.
God bless, Urch
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RE:A message for Simon Longfield
(Date Posted:19/10/2008 14:49:34)
Hi & thanks for the reply ! I've done my own study on the 'Trinity' & the 'Holy Spirit' & 'holy spirit' whilst in rci and to be honest I can't find fault with this pastors expository. I know for a fact that the greeks assigned 'gender nomination to many, many things just as many languages today still do for eg. the French have a 'table' that is assigned a feminine description whilst a 'desk' is in the masculine.
Even in the English language we'll sometimes refer to a ship or car as 'she' etc...
In Proverbs wisdom is referred to as a woman ! Is wisdom really a person ?
I actually did ask the pastor if they were breakoffs from something like one-ness pentecostals.No, they are part of a world-wide association of non-denominational biblical research, teaching & fellowship centres (many ministries, no hierachal structure) (his own words) VERY REFRESHING (my words !)
To be honest, I find that God being God, who is Holy and Spirit, and Jesus being the Son of God (subject to the Father) makes all the scriptures about the topic 'fit better' than to espouse that they are all the same but not the same ?!
But each to their own.
Concerning 'showing how' to s.i.t. yes, when asked about it, pastor showed me the actual scripture and to be quite honest, again, it FIT ! both doctrinally AND practically
I should really ask him if he would like to post on here, I know he's really busy, but this place has given me a real 'shot in the arm' spiritually speaking :) even though it's a bit of a distance I'm going back this Sunday.
God Bless ya's, love in Christ, Phil
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Didaktikon
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43#
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Rank:Old Forum Fogey
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Reply To Guest
(Date Posted:19/10/2008 16:36:11)
Good morning, Phil.
I've done my own study on the 'Trinity' & the 'Holy Spirit' & 'holy spirit' whilst in rci and to be honest I can't find fault with this pastors expository.
I don't doubt it. But then again, you've nothing to compare what you've recently heard against, except for your own personal opinions, huh? And for what it's worth, I think it very doubtful that you've much of an idea about the historic orthodox Christian teaching on the Trinity, or how such is absolutely vital to gaining a proper understanding of redemption and salvation, and its effects
I know for a fact that the greeks assigned 'gender nomination to many, many things just as many languages today still do for eg. the French have a 'table' that is assigned a feminine description whilst a 'desk' is in the masculine.
Indeed. And it's rather telling, therefore, that the words "Holy Spirit", being as they are neuter gender in Greek, attract masculine gender pronouns when used in the NT. In other words, the authors of the various NT books intentionally (and consistently) broke a fundamental grammatical rule, so as to clearly identify the Spirit's Person-hood. This stands completely at odds to the opinion that you've put forward, one which mirrors that of the Jehovah's Witnesses by the way, that "holy spirit" should be viewed as nothing more than the inanimate, "active force" of God. Oh, and by the way, this view is also heresy
I actually did ask the pastor if they were breakoffs from something like one-ness pentecostals.No, they are part of a world-wide association of non-denominational biblical research, teaching & fellowship centres (many ministries, no hierachal structure) (his own words) VERY REFRESHING (my words !)
Sure. They just "appeared" from out of nowhere one day, huh? I trust that you're not really that gullible, although what you've written to date kind of demonstrates that you just might be.
To be honest, I find that God being God, who is Holy and Spirit, and Jesus being the Son of God (subject to the Father) makes all the scriptures about the topic 'fit better' than to espouse that they are all the same but not the same ?!
No doubt. But given that I understand Scripture much better than you do, would you be surprised to discover that I feel precisely the opposite? To be blunt(-er) for a moment, I wonder if you fully comprehend where the heresy of "modalism" leads
Concerning 'showing how' to s.i.t. yes, when asked about it, pastor showed me the actual scripture and to be quite honest, again, it FIT ! both doctrinally AND practically.
Yes. Most of the modern speaking in "tongues" stuff appears to be little more than a learned behaviour. Clearly, then, it doesn't stand in direct continuity to what Scripture describes, does it? After all, Paul refers to the subject as a "spiritual gift", the most minor of which, of course; but a "gift" nonetheless.
So, Phil, I reckon that you and the Currum Downs mob would make for a good fit. They're obviously seeking to bolster their numbers with the biblically and theologically naive cast-offs of other doctrinally dysfunctional groups, and you seem to be more than happy to be led around by the nose, by people about which you know very, very little indeed!
Consequently, I wish you happiness in your ongoing quest for doctrinal novelty
Ian
P.S. If you can, please do try to get the "pastor" to post here, as I'd relish the opportunity to engage him in dialogue 
(Message edited by Didaktikon On 19/10/2008 16:51:42)
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Vivos voco, mortuos plango
website: www.pleaseconsider.info email: didaktikon@gmail.com
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RE:A message for Simon Longfield
(Date Posted:19/10/2008 20:01:17)
Not wanting to 'get your dandruff flying' Ian....but do you speak in tongues ? If so, do you know if it is genuine or just learned behavior ? If you do s.i.t. do you 'know' how to interpret or offer words of prophecy ? or do you go along with other 'theology' that says it died out with the apostles ??
This crowd on my FIRST ever visit SHOWED ME HOW TO s.i.t. PROPERLY AND INTERPRET. I KNOW MYSELF IT WAS/IS GENUINE. What more can I say ?? It's easy to knock something one HASN'T EXPERIENCED. But the deciding factor was the scripture flow and context that backed this up (I'm not in the habit of living by experience alone)
Concerning trinity doctrine and holy spirit, of couse there were forgeries placed in the Bible by King Jimmies boys during translation depending on what their thinking on these things were at the time.What is it, something like over 200 words & verses changed & altered before the 1611 A.V.
But one thing I clearly SEE as I READ...the first century church under the apostles guidance NEVER subscribed to this doctrine.
I don't doubt you (may) know more about scriptures than me (in fact you come across as a bit arrogant bro)
however, your answers to my first questions would give me more of an idea ?
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Talmid
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45#
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Rank:Regular Member
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RE:A message for Simon Longfield
(Date Posted:19/10/2008 21:16:37)
Phil,
It's good that you're wanting to base your beliefs on scripture, but might I point out the furphy you accepted regarding grammatical gender in the koine Greek and how that *actually* supports the personhood of the Spirit. If Mr Carrum Downs can get something like that so wrong, one has to question whether *anything* he says is reliable, and you evidently aren't in a position to evaluate the Greek text either. Personally, the deciding factor in my dropping the "Holy Spirit tongues to be saved acts2 38 salvation doctrine" "was the scripture flow and context that backed" *that* up .
Many, including yours truly *can* see the triune nature of God clearly flagged in the New Testament, and you might reflect on the discussions of the trinity as early as the ante-Nicene fathers rather than fuss about the late KJV. Our Revivalist experience of the Spirit as impersonal is what's deficient, not the understanding of God's nature termed "trinitarian".
To continue my previous metaphor, beware, your pursuit of tongues is leading you to ingest some truly pathological doctrine.
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There are 10 kinds of people in the world: those who understand binary and those who don't.
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Episkopeo
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46#
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Rank:Regular Rookier
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Reply To Guest
(Date Posted:19/10/2008 21:17:04)
Reply to is_aimoo_guest Reply to Episkopeo
Reply to Disciple on "stewardship"
I will take your advice and study the Greek meaning of the word. That is the word I should have included in the context of my post. Nothing really belongs to us we all stewards.
Epi
I commend this particular passage from the ESV,
"Now I rejoice in my sufferings for yoursake, and in my flesh I am filling up what is lacking in Crist's afflictions for the sake of his body, that is, the church, of which I became a minister according to the stewardship from God that was given me for you, to make the word of God fully known, the mystery hidden for ages and generations but now revealed to his saints " Colossians 1:24.
But the parable that speaks volumes is Luke 16:2
thanks sister
Disciple
ps the ESV is a pretty good and reliable translation and I think the closest match I have found that aligns best with the Greek NT.
Hi Disciple, I'm a bit late with my findings on "stewardship" but here goes:- This is purely from a layman's/person's point of view. Luke 16:2 - is initially what came to my mind on stewardship. It does speak volumes, especially verse 11 "If then you have not been faithful in the unrighteous wealth, who will entrust you with true riches" (ESV) My EVP Bible Dictionary defines "steward" as follows:- "In the OT a steward is a man who is 'over the house' (Gn. 43:19; 44;4; Is. 22:15. etc). In the NT there are two words translated steward: epitropos (Mt 20:8; Gal.4:2) i.e. one to whose care or honour one has been entrusted, a curator, a guardian; and oikonomos (Luke 16:2-3; 1 Cor. 4:1-2; Tit. 1:7; 1 Pet 4:10), i.e. a manager, a superintendent - from oikos (house) and nemo (to dispense or to manage) The word is used to describe the function of delegated responsibility, as in the parables of the labourers, and the unjust steward. More profoundly, it is used of the Christian's responsibility, delegated to him under 'Christ's kingly government of his own house'. All things are Christ's and Christians are his executors or stewards. Christians are admitted to the responsibilities of Christ's over-ruling of his world; so that stewardship (oikonomia) can be referred to similarly as a dispensation (1 Cor. 9:17; Eph. 3:2; Col. 1:25). C.H.D C.H.D. C.H. Duncan, M.A., B.D., Ph.D., Th.D., Lecturer in Philosophy, State College of Victoria, Australia; Cannon of St Paul's Cathedral, Melbourne. Also of interest is Titus 1:7 - "For an overseer, as God's steward must be above reproach" (ESV) In the KJV it reads "blameless". Reproach as in 'above reproach' in Titus 1:7 and 1 Tim 3:2 (1 Tim 3 gives qualities required for those who aspire to the office of overseer, etc) in the NIV Exhaustive Concordance is 'onepilemptos' above reproach/blame/not open to blame. Blameless as in Titus 1:7 in KJV is 'onenkletos' free from accusation/ nothing against them. In Strongs Çoncordance blameless is unrebukeable /inculpable. Pastors in sole control of church funds and without any accountability place themselves in a compromising position. Trustworthy as most might be, they leave themselves wide open and, hardly above reproach, as seen in RCI over the years. In the mainline church I attended (before RCI/RF) a council was elected by the people. The council came together with their own special gifts to decide how church funds were to be used. I have never known this to happen in my 18 yrs in RCI/RF. For those in Rev. churches, who say all is done decently and in order, this should raise questions. Epi
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Didaktikon
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47#
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Rank:Old Forum Fogey
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Reply To Guest
(Date Posted:19/10/2008 22:25:32)
Hiya, Phil
Not wanting to 'get your dandruff flying' Ian....but do you speak in tongues ? If so, do you know if it is genuine or just learned behavior? If you do s.i.t. do you 'know' how to interpret or offer words of prophecy ? or do you go along with other 'theology' that says it died out with the apostles ??
First, I too am an ex-member of the RCI, so that should answer question one As to question two, given that "tongues" is such an insignificant issue with respect to my personal spirituality, the answer is largely moot! But to address question three, 'yes', I've been known to interpret "tongues" and to "prophesy". But can I ask a related question for you: did the "interpretation" from the Carrum Downs crowd give the impression of being from God to the congregation, or from the "tongues"-speaker to God? Anyway, the answer to your final question can be found at www.pleaseconsider.info
This crowd on my FIRST ever visit SHOWED ME HOW TO s.i.t. PROPERLY AND INTERPRET. I KNOW MYSELF IT WAS/IS GENUINE. What more can I say ??
Nothing I guess. All that you've offered has been your thoroughly subjective personal "feelings" on the matter, nothing objective and tangible. There has been no appeal to Scripture, no appeal to anything from the experience of the Church throughout history. Nothing ...
It's easy to knock something one HASN'T EXPERIENCED.
Sure, but it's far easier to dismiss something that lacks any sort of biblical support. And to date, you've offered us none.
But the deciding factor was the scripture flow and context that backed this up (I'm not in the habit of living by experience alone).
Ya reckon? I happen to be something of a "fan" of Scripture being read in context myself. However, I've not seen you present anything that indicates the same to be true of you, or that what you claim above is, in fact, the case 
Concerning trinity doctrine and holy spirit, of couse there were forgeries placed in the Bible by King Jimmies boys during translation depending on what their thinking on these things were at the time.
Rubbish.
What is it, something like over 200 words & verses changed & altered before the 1611 A.V.
Rubbish.
But one thing I clearly SEE as I READ...the first century church under the apostles guidance NEVER subscribed to this doctrine.
Wait for it ... rubbish
I don't doubt you (may) know more about scriptures than me (in fact you come across as a bit arrogant bro) however, your answers to my first questions would give me more of an idea ?
The "idea" is that you currently have no idea about any of this stuff; further, that you seem over keen to be "suckered" in to further heresy.
Your choice.
Ian
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Vivos voco, mortuos plango
website: www.pleaseconsider.info email: didaktikon@gmail.com
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RE:A message for Simon Longfield
(Date Posted:20/10/2008 00:25:30)
Heya Ian, sorry, I 'presumed' you knew scriptures relevant to these cupla things mentioned ? 1 Corinthians 14 deals with the whole aspect of church service and the 'manifestations' of holy spirit. I just 'presumed' you knew that the word 'gifts' of the holy spirit is better translated 'manifestation'. KJV the word 'gifts' of the spirit is in italics, meaning of course there is no corresponding greek word.
1 Corinthians ch. 12 correctly labels these 'gifts' of the spirit as MANIFESTATIONS (something that can be seen or heard with the 5 senses).
As the Pastor said "there is only ONE gift, the gift of holy spirit and there are 9 'manifestations' of this gift which are the s.i.t. , interpretation of tongues, prophesy, word of knowledge, word of wisdom, discerning of spirits, faith, healing & miracles." He also says that EVERY born-again Christian has these 9 enablements once they are born-again.
To erroneously label them gifts gives rise to the WRONG doctrine that only SOME Christians can operate ONLY SOME of these 'gifts' SOMETIMES. The Pastor believes and teaches "All nine all the time" ! Now that's exciting !!
BTW...1 Corinthians 14 :4,5 "I would YE ALL spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied, for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh in tongues EXCEPT he interpret thet the church receives edifying.
verse 13 "Let him (or her !) that speaks in tongues pray (believe) to interpret !
verse 26,27,28 " How is it then brethren ? when ye come together, every one of you has a psalm (song), has a doctrine (teaching), has a tongue, has a revelation, has an interpretation.Let all things be done unto EDIFYING.If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most, by three, and that by course (in order) and let one (greek word 'heis' meaning that same one !) interpret (their tongues) as per v13 !
But if there be no interpreter (interpretation by the one who is speaking in tongues) let him keep silence in the church, let him speak to himself and to God.
Pastor also gave me a bookmark that lists at least 12 reasons and benefits of s.i.t. (with all corresponding scriptures) You seem to make it not to be that big a deal ? s.i.t. is the foundational 'manifestation' that all the other 8 'key off from' ! These 9 manifestations of holy spirit are 'the eyes & ears ' of the Christian Church
Man, I am SO EXCITED, Agape to you brother, Phil
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RE:A message for Simon Longfield
(Date Posted:20/10/2008 00:37:12)
I discovered this site a short while ago and have had a bit of a read.
I really don't understand this forum or you people, What a crock. If you are all so bitter about your whole experience with the RCI/RF/S.I.T whatever, (why) dedicate so much of your time to coming and revisiting everything you hated, (Oh it's to help heal all those wounds). Farout people - Move on! - Or you'll waist more of your life looking backwards.
If you think you can find a place to be completely inline with the way GOD wants (which lets face it, is what the aim is) then that would be a miracle in itself.
The fact is EVERY church / group has a FLESH & BLOOD HUMAN at the front who is supposed to be led by the spirit. But the problem will always be Human error, own ideas causing all sorts of garbage to go on. Thats the whole reason there are so many churches / split offs. The one you go to is a split off.
Why don't you let it go and stop putting your own ideas in others heads.
I particularly cant believe the D.T.M. What a waist of your life being a seat warmer spy and going just to keep the peace with family. Your pathetic!
To Ian, you proclaim to be the all knowing oracle on this crock, why don't you start up your own group so all your other Fan boys (Girls) on this site can learn all there is to be Arrogant. (Arrogance = 1 of the fruits doesn't it)? I hope for your sake you are right. No No - my mistake - you are right, how could you be wrong?
Your choice.
Brendan
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Didaktikon
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50#
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Rank:Old Forum Fogey
Score:31600
Posts:1517
Registered:29/08/2007
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Reply To Guest
(Date Posted:20/10/2008 00:47:08)
Hi, Phil.
There's an old observation that you may be familiar with? It goes, "there are none so blind as those who refuse to see." The Bible says much the same thing when it comments, "the gospel is hidden to those who are perishing."
Sad but true, big fella; sad but true 
Ian
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Vivos voco, mortuos plango
website: www.pleaseconsider.info email: didaktikon@gmail.com
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