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Title: Revival Centres International

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MothandRust	\| Move to Bottom Author
Status: Posts: 1472 Registered: 27/02/2004	(Date Posted:08/12/2007 10:14:17) Group Founder: Lloyd Longfield (aka "Pastor Lloyd") Description of Group: A Bible-based, Pentecostal/evangelical group. Founded in Australia in 1958 by Lloyd Longfield & Noel Hollins, who broke away from the Christian Revival Crusade. The group started as the Melbourne & Geelong Revival Centres...Spread to other states of Australia, and overseas to New Guinea, USA, UK, France, Africa, Germany, Holland, Hong Kong and other countries... They claim to have started earlier than 1958 in order to fulfill some obscure prophesy... Teaches Bible numerics, speaking in tongues & British Israel theory... All members are encouraged to "give over" to the leadership, all activities are controlled by a set of often changed guidelines, separation from the "world" is encouraged... A split occurred in 1996 over the issue of sex before marriage...They lost almost 2 thirds of their membership, including half of their overseas assemblies...The Assemblies remaining with the RCI are located in Australia (Half remained, half went with the new group), Canada, USA, UK, Fiji, New Zealand, Italy, Kenya, Papua New Guinea & Malawi...The splinter group is called the Revival Fellowship & it is identical to the original group except for the doctrine which caused the split... The new group is headed by John Kuhlmann... The leaders of both groups live in virtual luxury, without any obvious source of income... The last I heard Longfield owned the old Mayor Mansion in Melbourne & has all the land owned by the RCI in his name...Pretty good for a guy who owns a small butcher shop in downtown Melbourne...He also bought both his sons a Range Rover which retail from AUS$100,000... John Kuhlmann drives a luxury car, has a large home & no visible signs of an income...All the land owned by the Revival Fellowship is in his name... The members of both groups are not permitted to see the groups financial records... The RCI was recently handed over to Longfield's son Simon..Longfield was in poor health & it was rumoured he was showing early signs of dementia... The BITE model applied to RCI: Compiled from former members' submissions Behavior Control: 1. Regulation of individual?s physical reality Members are expected to dress conservatively...no short skirts, no tight jeans, no tattoos, men are not allowed to wear earrings...Contact with ex-members is forbidden...Members are encouraged to break contact with any "unsavoury" friends...The group comes before family...They own camping grounds which members are encouraged to go to on vacation...If members go interstate or overseas it is expected that they will stay with other members & continue going to meetings...There are 5 meetings a week (Tuesday, Wednesday, Friday & 2 on Sunday), there are activities organised for Saturdays & a compulsory youth group for single people under 30's...Thursday is set aside for a coffee morning & door knocking, which everyone is expected to attend at least once a month...Failure to attend at least 3 meetings a week plus the activities on Saturday results in a visit from the "middle management" ie. houseleaders or newer Pastors who reports back to the leadership...Public image! ! is everything...single men cannot have female housemates & vice versa, members are not allowed to go into pubs (not even to get a meal), those having sex outside of marriage are forced to marry or are expelled from the group... 2. Major time commitment required for indoctrination sessions and group rituals New members are "taken in" by older members who live near by them & escorted to all group activities... Members are encouraged to "pray" with the leadership for long periods until they "receive" ie. start speaking in tongues...New member meetings are offered & attendance is strongly "encouraged"... 3. Need to ask permission for major decisions All major decisions have to be approved by the pastors...This includes legal decisions...Pastors have been known to intervene in custody battles & go against custody orders ie. encouraging the member to deny access visits to the non-member parent...Abused women are often ordered back to their husbands, divorce is forbidden, the partner filing for divorce is promptly removed from the group... 4. Need to report thoughts, feelings and activities to superiors The pastor's door is always open...Members are encouraged to "discuss" all their feelings with the leadership...Withholding information is considered the same as lying to God... 5. Rewards and punishments (behavior modification techniques - positive and negative) Disobeying the Pastors or "sinning" in any way is punishable by expulsion from the group or being banned from attending any fun activities eg. group picnics etc...I have witnessed a Pastor intervening in the discipline if a member's child...Telling the child they are evil & of the devil because they are misbehaving...All youth group members are given a curfew of midnight regardless of age, anyone caught out after this time is disciplined as the the leadership sees fit... 6. Individualism discouraged; group think prevails No expression of doubt or negative feelings/thoughts about the group is tolerated...It is considered divisionary...Members must present a united front... 7. Rigid rules and regulations There are enforced "guidelines" which are changed at the whim of the leadership...No-one ever knows all the rules...disobeying them leads to immediate disciplinary action & carries with it the threat of expulsion from the group... 8. Need for obedience and dependency. Disobeying the leadership is like disobeying god...dependence is encouraged, several biblical passages are used to illustrate that truly godly people should "give over" to those who know best ie. the leadership... Information Control: 1. Use of deception The full history of the British Israel Theory is not made known to group members...Members are not made aware of recent research into Bible numerics...Sexual education is withheld & discouraged...Appalling Greek, Hebrew & Latin translations ie. highly inaccurate...Crime statistics exaggerated to make group seem safer & to support their "end times" theories...Claiming miraculous cures for asymptomatic conditions such as AIDS...Stories made up about ex-members to support the belief that life is "sevenfold" bad for you if you leave the group...Rumours are circulated about members who are questioning too much... 2. Access to non-cult sources of information minimized or discouraged Members have to check with pastors before they buy a book on religious theory or go to see a movie...Members are discouraged from watching TV or listening to rock music...Members are advised what books to buy & are provided with tapes of previous "talks" & "appropriate" music...Contact with ex-members forbidden, members kept busy...Recently a ban on internet access has been instituted due to the amount of anti-RCI/Revival Fellowship material available... 3. Compartmentalization of information; Outsider vs. Insider doctrines The leadership know's everything about everyone, almost nothing is known about the leaders...Information given out on a need to know basis... 4. Spying on other members is encouraged Members are encouraged to "tell on" other members for their own spiritual good, so that they can be corrected...New members are paired up with older members who are in favour with the leadership...Due to the spying members are convinced that God is telling the leadership everything, therefore it is pointless not divulging every thought, feeling & action to the pastors... 5. Extensive use of cult generated information and propaganda The group has a news letter, a magazine & various audio & video tapes which members are encouraged to buy & distribute amongst prospective recruits... 6. Unethical use of confession Threats to divulge information about past "sins" to other members are used to keep people "in-line"... Thought Control: 1. Need to internalize the group?s doctrine as "Truth" The RCI is the one true church...Us vs Them mentality, the outside world is considered a dangerous place & the people in it agents of the devil...RCI members are considered elite, they call themselves "saints"...There are no "grey areas" everything is either good or bad, there are no in betweens, no excuses...A common phrase used by members is: "if you are not with us you are against us"... 2. Adopt "loaded" language (characterized by "thought-terminating clichés") Non-members often need a translator to understand what RCI members are saying...Certain phrases are meant to elicit certain responses... 3. Only "good" and "proper" thoughts are encouraged Any "impure" thoughts are said to be the devil creeping in...If this is occurring the individual is encouraged to pray (in tongues) on it, talk to the Pastors & devote more time to the group... 4. Thought-stopping techniques It is common to hear current members justify the leadership's actions & aggressively defend them...Members are encouraged to "speak in tongues" often & for long periods, especially when they are having doubts... 5. No critical questions about leader, doctrine, or policy seen as legitimate Critical questions are greeted with hostility or the questioner is patronised & told not to worry about it..If it continues the faith of the questioner is brought into question & they are told to go read their Bible because that is where they will find the answers to all their questions...Too much questioning leads to a "smear campaign" by the Pastors & eventual expulsion from the group... 6. No alternative belief systems viewed as legitimate, good, or useful Alternative belief systems are ridiculed regularly at meetings...Anti-Catholic sentiment prevails.. Emotional Control: 1. Manipulate and narrow the range of a person?s feelings Individual only allowed to feel happy...sadness or anger is dismissed or ridiculed... 2. Make the person feel like if there are ever any problems it is always their fault, never the leader?s or the group's. If a member is not satisfied in the group it is said that their faith is not strong enough or that they are not doing enough for the group or God... 3. Excessive use of guilt Members are made to feel guilty if they are not "perfect", if they have not yet converted their family, if they wish to associate with people outside the group, if they believe they are returning to their "old ways"...RCI absolves members of any "historical guilt" because they believe they are seperate from the Christian church that went before them... 4. Excessive use of fear Members are made to fear the "world" because it is supposedly dangerous & full of temptation...Anyone not in support of the RCI is considered to be an agent of the devil, a huge number of "sins" & leaving the group can lead to loss of salvation...Members fear not having the pastors' approval, all their actions are governed by this fear...Members are well aware that if they leave the group they will lose their entire social network... 5. Extremes of emotional highs and lows. Meetings are always upbeat, lots of singing & rhythmic clapping...The "talks" are generally depressing & re-inforce the idea that the "world" is an evil, horrible place & that those who want to return to it must be mad... 6. Ritual and often public confession of "sins". It is expected that all "sins" will be confessed to the Pastors....Forgiveness by God is all important, the only way to gain this is by acknowledging your "sins" & confessing them to the Pastors...They will make deals with you eg. "If you marry now you can stay in the group & gain forgiveness. If not I'm afraid you will have to leave & I won't be able to guarantee your forgiveness"... 7. Phobia indoctrination Leaving the group is said to be turning your back on God, therefore everything will be "sevenfold bad for you"...Those leaving are said to have been weak & seduced by the "world"...It is expected these people will become drug addicts, insane, chronically ill or die...The Pastors are always ready with a story to prove their point...It is also said that once leaving you will be empty & unspiritual, you will never find fullfillment... Organizations Related to the Group: Revival Fellowship (RF) and Christian Assemblies International (a splinter group of R.C.I. Revival Centres International). -------------------------------------------------------------- “The mystery of the beginning of all things is insoluble by us; and I for one must be content to remain an agnostic” - Darwin

Guest	\| Move to Top \| Move to Bottom 1#
	RE:Revival Centres International (Date Posted:10/01/2008 10:49:46) How many years has Lloyd got left ??? Is he in his nineties yet ?? or is He an octogenerian living his last days in nursing care..?? .... and what will become of this tired old prooftext driven RCI when Lloyd passes away ??? anon

misterkilometres	\| Move to Top \| Move to Bottom 2#
Status: Posts:85 Registered: 12/06/2008	RE:Revival Centres International (Date Posted:22/07/2008 21:40:13) Guest, LRL is doing fine in his own home. He was an incredibally gifted preacher. His words were as honey dripping out of his mouth - it didn't matter if what you were hearing was crap, you were just mesmerized by his charisma and style. So - as for your question on what will become of RCI now that the founding charismatic leader is in retirement? The same fate awaits RCI as what happened to all revivals that were absconded by "methodists gone mad". Where is Azusa street revival now? Where has the original Welsh revival gone? Where has the charismatic revivals gone that stemmed from the latter part of the Welsh revival gone? Well, they basically fragmented away into NOTHING. People left in droves back to the established churches whence came the methodist folly. The AOG's got smart and revised their theology and were able to continue, although not as a true revival, but as pentecostalism. The love in the RCI is waxing cold - the founding families can't stand each other, there are personality clashes and infighting at large, house leaders being stood down and doing the assembly hop ( to Bellarine ) to avoid going to Melbourne. The Pastors and preachers that are now in RCI are just not as gifted as LRL was, and cannot continue in the same way and go unnoticed by the congregation! They either have to get smart and organised like the AOG did, or continue to fragment into pieces like all other errant revivals. I do think that when the occasion does occurr if LRL does pass on, I certainly think that that will be a catalyst for massive change and upheaval in RCI. GET OUT OF THERE BEFORE THE TALL POPPY FADES. Another question. Why aren't the other churches going through this same fire? Some of the established orthodox churches are rapidly growing and maturing. I suppose that is the difference between what followed Calvin, and what followed Wesley. -------------------------------------------------------------- YOU SHALL KNOW THEM BY THEIR FRUIT - NOT BY THEIR GIFTS.

Talmid	\| Move to Top \| Move to Bottom 3#
Status: Posts:77 Registered: 21/04/2008	RE:Revival Centres International (Date Posted:22/07/2008 22:47:28) Hi Mr K Why do you contrast Calvin and Wesley, rather than Calvin and Arminius?

Didaktikon	\| Move to Top \| Move to Bottom 4#
Status: Posts:698 Registered: 29/08/2007	Reply To Talmid (Date Posted:22/07/2008 22:59:19) Talmid, shalom. Why do you contrast Calvin and Wesley, rather than Calvin and Arminius? I'm going to jump into this one! My automatic response in answer to your question is this: Jacob Arminius didn't establish a unified and codified system of beliefs, a comprehensive ecclesiastical theology, if you will! He was simply being reactionary towards an extended form of Calvinism. But WRT Jean Calvin and John Wesley, well, they certainly did!. Blessings, Ian -------------------------------------------------------------- website: www.pleaseconsider.info email: didaktikon@gmail.com

misterkilometres	\| Move to Top \| Move to Bottom 5#
Status: Posts:85 Registered: 12/06/2008	RE:Revival Centres International (Date Posted:22/07/2008 23:16:10) Hello Talmid, I contrasted Calvin and Wesley in this instance mainly because of that pentecostalism via latter Welsh revival was birthed mainly from Methodists, who in the main subscribe to Arinian soteriology. Having that in mind, it would be almost safe to assume that all revivalists and ex-revivalists are in the main quasi-methodists by default unless they stipulate otherwise. I may be wrong or corrected on this but this is my current understanding in general terms, and not being dogmatic or particular about it. Are you saying that it would have been more correct to ascribe pentecostalist soteriology and underlying doctorines to Arminius rather than Calvin? Or am I wrong in ascribing pentecostalism's roots as methodist? Or something else. I would be intersted in informed discussion because it is fascinating! Mr K. -------------------------------------------------------------- YOU SHALL KNOW THEM BY THEIR FRUIT - NOT BY THEIR GIFTS.

Didaktikon	\| Move to Top \| Move to Bottom 6#
Status: Posts:698 Registered: 29/08/2007	Reply To misterkilometres (Date Posted:22/07/2008 23:28:44) Hi, Paul. All Pentecostal churches are Arminian in theology, they couldn't be otherwise! But not all charismatic churches are so constrained, hence one will often find a much deeper level of theological maturity and sophistication in charismatic groups when compared to Pentecostals. From an historic perspective, Pentecostalism was an outgrowth of the "Holiness" movement, which was a direct development of Wesleyan "perfectionism". Blessings, Ian (Message edited by Didaktikon on 22/07/2008 23:29:49) -------------------------------------------------------------- website: www.pleaseconsider.info email: didaktikon@gmail.com

Talmid	\| Move to Top \| Move to Bottom 7#
Status: Posts:77 Registered: 21/04/2008	RE:Wesley and pentecostalism (Date Posted:23/07/2008 00:22:26) Ian I'm going to jump into this one! My automatic response in answer to your question is this: Jacob Arminius didn't establish a unified and codified system of beliefs, a comprehensive ecclesiastical theology, if you will! He was simply being reactionary towards an extended form of Calvinism. But WRT Jean Calvin and John Wesley, well, they certainly did!. OK. Another item for the to-do list: learn Wesley's place in church history. I wasn't aware that he'd built a systematic theology. I naively thought he primarily was instituting 'practical holiness' in terms of 'good works' and building 'close' Christian communities founded on some previously 'systemised' Arminian soteriology. So much for knowing my pre-RCI/RF heritage :-( Mr K I assumed that the root of Wesley's outcomes was his Arminianism, and wondered why you didn't go back that far. From what Ian writes, it seems Wesley's 'innovations' were more significant than I assumed! Clearly I'm not 'informed' ... so I'll remain an observer. (Message edited by Talmid on 23/07/2008 00:33:46)

Didaktikon	\| Move to Top \| Move to Bottom 8#
Status: Posts:698 Registered: 29/08/2007	Reply To Talmid (Date Posted:23/07/2008 00:43:42) Greetings, Talmid. OK. Another item for the to-do list: learn Wesley's place in church history. I wasn't aware that he'd built a systematic theology. I think you may have misunderstood me. I stated that he had built a comprehensive ecclesiastical theology, and not necessarily a systematic one. I naively thought he primarily was instituting 'practical holiness' in terms of 'good works' and building 'close' Christian communities founded on some previously 'systemised' Arminian soteriology. And he did. But Wesley went much further too, especially with respect to the theological training system that he put in place for members of the Methodist clergy. So much for knowing my pre-RCI/RF heritage :-( Happens all the time, so I wouldn't worry. But it would be a worthwhile exercise to systematically work through precisely how Arminian theology impacts upon your theological presuppositions. In fact, I think we had this conversation a couple of years ago? Blessings, Ian -------------------------------------------------------------- website: www.pleaseconsider.info email: didaktikon@gmail.com

Talmid

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