Life is not a balance of good and bad. Some people's lives are mostly bad and some people lives are mostly good. This does not mean that this is equal. Just look at the people living in some places in Africa. Most of there live is bad.

Ahh yeah Africans... see, I was just thinking about myself. I often forget there's a world outside of my peripheral vision.

And as far as problems coming in threes. I don't think that you can prove this scientifically.

No, I wouldn't dream of it. I would think that a superstition and I'm certainly not superstitious, but I think a lot of religion is. They don't use the word superstition though.

Yes life is a crapshoot but the odds are in the favor of the house and not in the favor of the shooter. You are the shooter.

I'm the shooter?

Oprah has a Secret or she's into the Secret. She thinks that if you wish it to come true it will come true. AAAAAA that's sweet. I want a million dollars I want a million dollars I want a million dollars. Nope nothing.

Uh-huh, I've know all about the 'Secret', and although most of it sounds like New age mumbo-jumbo, there's a lot to be said for making a positive goal in life and then aiming for it without letting the negativity and doubts come in and rob you of the person you could be.

Yes you do have the power to influence you life. But not in the three wishes type of way. You put you thoughts in to action and put a lot of hard work in and you might end up with a million dollars.

I agree, I'd rather have the problems associated with too much money than without

Franks Spike...In response to your post....

Oprah has a Secret or she's into the Secret. She thinks that if you wish it to come true it will come true. AAAAAA that's sweet. I want a million dollars I want a million dollars I want a million dollars. Nope nothing.
 Ahhhh... Its a little bit more involved than just wishful thinking hun. Its about the Laws Of Attraction. Its about positive thinking. Changing your thought process. If you think negative, you'll draw negative. Think positive and you will draw positive towards you. If anyone is interested.. Oprah is doing a special on this "SECRET" on Wednesday night, channel 10,  7.30pm.. Perth time. For more info.. visit the following websites. The first site is the 'official' website.. looks kinda like a really good Hollywood blockbuster movie, but watch the dvd if you can afford it. The second site is the "Australian" website. More and more people are looking into this 'secret', including myself. Worth a shot if nothing else.

http://thesecret.tv/

http://www.wildlywealthy.com/the_secret.php?gclid=CKyWq9DejYwCFRTKYAodynkW5A

Moth and Rust....

sorry if it seemed like one of those attention seeking goodbye messages.............If I ever did one of those dramatic singsong goodbye posts (life I've seen on the forum before).........

Ummm... I don't think it's an 'dramatic attention seeking' thing. Its just a case of being polite and thanking everyone for the help and encouragement they may of brought to the person who is saying goodbye.Thats it. I don't know about you, but I was brought up to be polite. And I think that the others that have posted 'goodbye' messages were probably brought up the same way.  And lets face it... as mentioned in previous posts.. if you just disappear from cyber space, people may think your dead! LOL! Nice to just let everyone you may of become 'close' too in 'cyberland' that you leaving for a while and that you not dead.

Regards... Bindi

---

Ummm... I don't think it's an 'dramatic attention seeking' thing. Its just a case of being polite and thanking everyone for the help and encouragement they may of brought to the person who is saying goodbye.Thats it. I don't know about you, but I was brought up to be polite. And I think that the others that have posted 'goodbye' messages were probably brought up the same way.  And lets face it... as mentioned in previous posts.. if you just disappear from cyber space, people may think your dead! LOL! Nice to just let everyone you may of become 'close' too in 'cyberland' that you leaving for a while and that you not dead.

---

I did'nt mean to imply anyone in particular was trying to attention seek by making a song and dance by saying goodbye, and you're right, it is good manners.

No, I was never taught to be polite whilst growing up. I'm learning as I go, and I"m a slow learner at best.

Ok it's probably been said before, but I thought I'd add my two cents worth. What I'd like to see in a church:

• A place where the people are there to worship God and not just make an "appearance."
• A place where the people are excited to go, and not just going because they feel they have to
• A place where the oversight have true compassion and leadership skills
• A place where the people are'nt afraid to speak their mind

And of course:

• A place where the basis of the gospel comes from the bible.

There's probably heaps of others things that would make a great church, but I can't think of any others at the moment :-)

xxx

Angel

---

Ok it's probably been said before, but I thought I'd add my two cents worth. What I'd like to see in a church:A place where the people are there to worship God and not just make an "appearance."A place where the people are excited to go, and not just going because they feel they have toA place where the oversight have true compassion and leadership skillsA place where the people are'nt afraid to speak their mindAnd of course:A place where the basis of the gospel comes from the bible.There's probably heaps of others things that would make a great church, but I can't think of any others at the moment :-)xxxAngel

---

Hey LA, you've just described our church, when did you go  there.? LOL   It's got all those ingredients,  and people have been enjoying them for over400 yrs, It was just round the corner from us, but we traveled 50 miles, twice a week for 18 yrs,  to be bullied and controlled, brainwashed and guilt ridden. Often told that all other  curches were "compromised", and "dead"  and that we must have no fellowship with them.

Now we know that was a lie, among a lot of other un-truths we were fed in order to keep us in line, and under the thumb of un-skilled ,un -trained leaders of a cultish organisation, at odds with ,and seperate from, the rest of Christianity. And I know now that those ingredients are to be found in the majority of the  maligned so called compromised churches, of whatever name or persuasion, who have Christ as the head, and preach the saving grace of Jesus.

God bless   

Moth and Rust your comments are amazingly resonant to my own...

I too have quietly slid into the agnostic pool...

But there is one reason why you post and participate on this forum - is the damage and scars that this controlling cult usurped on us all and it does take time to unravel it all...if we do indeed unravel it all over a lifetime...

I guess looking at me, I should have hid behind anonymity on this forum but I think its actually part of my emotional healing process to lay my cards out for all to see...

The Revivalist thing is precisely like the Wizard of Oz... fire, brimstone and theatrics aplenty - however behind the curtain is just some old dude flicking levers to suit.

---

Moth and Rust your comments are amazingly resonant to my own...I too have quietly slid into the agnostic pool...But there is one reason why you post and participate on this forum - is the damage and scars that this controlling cult usurped on us all and it does take time to unravel it all...

---

VEry brave of you... heck, I'm still scared to say my name openly for some reason unknown to me. It's Peter for a start...

Latest brain scientists are saying it takes the neural pathways approximately 2 years to unlearn something (if you let them) and even then some paths are set and hard to change. Studies have also shown that falling dependantly in 'love' can take the same amount of time to unravel. Everyone's different though and some are more stubborn than others.

YEah, these are the scars. The extreme naivety I feel as I wandered outside of the Revival lifestyle is a constant embarrassment to me. I just didn't know how to operate outside of the prison (maybe that's why I stayed so long - the stereo-typed fear of freedom??) I felt God would provide and I truly didn't imagine a full seventy years of life because of 'end times' and therefore did not take my education or financial situation as seriously as I should have. I know this isn't the same for all members of Revival... but it is a freaking trap and one I've heard of others fall into far too often.

Getting outside of a church environment where the group's hive mind is conditioned to believe the same way is a good idea.

Hi Moth

YEah, these are the scars. The extreme naivety I feel as I wandered outside of the Revival lifestyle is a constant embarrassment to me. I just didn't know how to operate outside of the prison (maybe that's why I stayed so long - the stereo-typed fear of freedom??) I felt God would provide and I truly didn't imagine a full seventy years of life because of 'end times' and therefore did not take my education or financial situation as seriously as I should have. I know this isn't the same for all members of Revival... but it is a freaking trap and one I've heard of others fall into far too often.

Oh yea on that one moth, we all didnt save, plan for retirement, bothered educating ourselves as the lord was comming back before 2000.

Still get a bit pissy on that one, however have moved on (mostly) and it seems rci/rcf where not the only group around that chased that theory, still live and learn my friend live and learn

earth5

"Scared to say my name, its >>>>>>>>>>>>>. ah what the? , I have found what we are scared to say, usually doesnt phase anyone here, I have said a couple of things on this forum, thinking that it wil get some sort of response or kick in the head for me, and what happens, well nothing, its just false fears we have.

Its not all bad news being called to the r/f. God didnt do it to make us irrepairable afterwards, after 27 years it only took me a few days to work it all out, with no emotional scars, but obviously some of us take more time.

regards

---

"Scared to say my name, its >>>>>>>>>>>>>. ah what the? , I have found what we are scared to say, usually doesnt phase anyone here, I have said a couple of things on this forum, thinking that it wil get some sort of response or kick in the head for me, and what happens, well nothing, its just false fears we have.Its not all bad news being called to the r/f. God didnt do it tomake us irrepairable afterwards, after 27 years it only took me a few days to work it all out, with no emotional scars, but obviously some of us take more time.regards

---

R u having  go at me charty????????? if so bring it on

earth5

---

Fartdoctor - "Scared to say my name, its >>>>>>>>>>>>>. ah what the?

---

Moth - I'm still scared to say my name openly for some reason unknown to me. It's Peter for a start...

Earth - R u having  go at me charty????????? if so bring it on

I think Chartfarter is trying to pwn me a bit - maybe... desperate to give some payback for two years of pwnage towards him, and I don't blame him, poor guy. If you are trying to pay me out for what you think is a contradiction on my part; I'm happy to advertise my name - Peter - but not willing to bandy my surname about. I keep imagining the possibility that some unbalanced tongue-rambling CAI or GRC church goers are going to put the kybosh or jihad on my ass. Paranoid delusion, but I sometimes entertain my fantasies... much like you do your tongues doctrine, eh Evil Kneval Doctor?

Ru trying to put me down charty,??

Not likely Moth, after 2 years do you think I would start now?  The What the? wasnt meant to stir you up the way you have reacted, I have been tried far more than what you are able to dish out, so it doesnt phase me at all. Most everybody posts here for a little time and then we generally dont see them anymore, but you seem to be the longest running, so is there some reason for all this? As you may be the longest running this also is not a criticism, just a statistic.

regards

Ru trying to put me down charty,??

I did not ask if you were trying to put me down. I said PWN... it's an internet buzzword that I thought you might understand, but I appreciate that the language barrier is tricky enough for you and buzzwords will only make it worse, so sorry about that. You can look up PWNAGE on 'urban dictionary'.

Not likely Moth, after 2 years do you think I would start now?

You just started it seems, by putting some attention to me and my name remark. You might have been trying to be funny... and that's okay too. I just didn't want Earth to think you were dissing him. You used to be ridiculously annoying, but seemed to have relaxed a lot more nowadays.

 I have been tried far more than what you are able to dish out, so it doesnt phase me at all.

You've got thick skin. I'll give you that... I'll try harder should I. Ha...

Most everybody posts here for a little time and then we generally dont see them anymore, but you seem to be the longest running, so is there some reason for all this? As you may be the longest running this also is not a criticism, just a statistic.regards

Yes, I've gone all through that with an anonymous poster just recently on a thread somewhere. I'm a regular here at this forum. Most long running forums I have been involved with have some members who have become a long term presence and keep them alive. I think it gives a forum some character and 'spirit' by having who know the history of the place. The forum is like going down to the pub to have a few beers with mates (it reminds me of the lyrics to cheers) and to tie all this into the topic of this thread, that's what makes regular church going attractive to many, 'cause everybody knows your name.

- Cheers Lyrics

Making your way in the world today takes everything you've got.
Taking a break from all your worries, sure would help a lot.

Wouldn't you like to get away?

Sometimes you want to go

Where everybody knows your name,
and they're always glad you came.
You wanna be where you can see,
our troubles are all the same
You wanna be where everybody knows
Your name.

Roll out of bed, Mr. Coffee's dead;
The morning's looking bright;
And your shrink ran off to Europe,
And didn't even write;
And your husband wants to be a girl;

Be glad there's one place in the world
Where everybody knows your name,
And they're always glad you came;
You want to go where people know,
People are all the same;
You want to go where everybody knows your name.

---

Reply to : ChartdoctorRu trying to put me down charty,??I did not ask if you were trying to put me down. I said PWN... it's an internet buzzword that I thought you might understand, but I appreciate that the language barrier is tricky enough for you and buzzwords will only make it worse, so sorry about that. You can look up PWNAGE on 'urban dictionary'.Not likely Moth, after 2 years do you think I would start now?You just started it seems, by putting some attention to me and my name remark. You might have been trying to be funny... and that's okay too. I just didn't want Earth to think you were dissing him. You used to be ridiculously annoying, but seemed to have relaxed a lot more nowadays.I have been tried far more than what you are able

---

thanks Moth.

Chart Doctor, When you said that you dont have issues, Im sorry but I find that hard to swollow, there is damage done to all who have left the rev ctrs in one form or another, otherwise we would all be still there, obliviouse to anything else happening. Of course my understanding of your fellowship is that there is not a lot of diference to where you came from so therefor you havnt really had to be challendged much by things, I could be wrong and will stand corrected, but will be hard pressed to be convinced.

Reply to Moth,   Charty used to be ridiculously annoying!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks moth, yes I agree, I became aware of that a while back and sought to "fix the problem". Its something of a different communication on the internet, so some of us need to learn how to communicate online.

regards.

---

does Charty go to cornerstone earth?

---

---

Reply to : DeanozMoth and Rust your comments are amazingly resonant to my own...I too have quietly slid into the agnostic pool...But there is one reason why you post and participate on this forum - is the damage and scars that this controlling cult usurped on us all and it does take time to unravel it all...VEry brave of you... heck, I'm still scared to say my name openly for some reason unknown to me. It's Peter for a start...Latest brain scientists are saying it takes the neural pathways approximately 2 years to unlearn something (if you let them) and even then some paths are set and hard to change. Studies have also shown that falling dependantly in 'love' can take the same amount of time to unravel. Everyone's different though and some are more stubborn th

---

Yes they really brainwash you into not planning for your life in any way, shape or form.

In the Perth assembly it was actually a 'guideline' in recommending that you do NOT attend tertiary institutions for study!

Yo Frank

---

Yes they really brainwash you into not planning for your life in any way, shape or form.
In the Perth assembly it was actually a 'guideline' in recommending that you do NOT attend tertiary institutions for study!

---

I presume this is something your RF would not do. Isn't it unscriptural and a recipe for disaster? What do you think?

Any chance of getting your pastor(s) to raise this at the upcoming Convention?

---

Yo FrankYes they really brainwash you into not planning for your life in any way, shape or form.In the Perth assembly it was actually a 'guideline' in recommending that you do NOT attend tertiary institutions for study!I presume this is something your RF would not do. Isn't itunscriptural and a recipe for disaster?What do you think?Any chance of getting your pastor(s) to raise this at the upcoming Convention?

---

I think you would find fg's pastor, has studied and so has the brissy pastor B S I think now has a doctorate degree of some sort, i stand to be corrected on this however

earth5

---

Reply to : RF_on_the_edgeYo FrankYes they really brainwash you into not planning for your life in any way, shape or form.In the Perth assembly it was actually a 'guideline' in recommending that you do NOT attend tertiary institutions for study!I presume this is something your RF would not do. Isn't itunscriptural and a recipe for disaster?What do you think?Any chance of getting your pastor(s) to raise this at the upcoming Convention?

---

My personal opinion is this is absolute cultish rubbish.

In Toowoomba we have no less than 15 of our people in all areas of tertiary at the moment.

We have 6 phsych nurses in our fellowship, 2 phychologists a midwife of renoun, 2 family councilors, a pastor with a double degree in Commerce & Ag Science.

Russ Gay lectures in family counceling after several years in tertiary level study and a degree.

In fact we have a lot of professional people, business owners and the like. So what we have is a well rounded group of very diverse people who are enjoying the fellowship and secure in there relationship with Christ and we do not have a culture of fear or control. Come up and visit some time, you are all welcome.

Maybe staying on topic this is one of the other ingredients to a happy and healthy church (DIVERSITY)

RF I wouldn't believe that raising such stuff at Convention would do any good, those guys have got bigger fish to fry

My personal opinion is this is absolute cultish rubbish.

Opinion noted, but you do preach an imminent return doctrine and that does have impact on some people who take it completely on board. Even though it is preached to live like a full life but take each day as a possible last... it can and sometimes does mess people's life view up.

In Toowoomba we have no less than 15 of our people in all areas of tertiary at the moment.

Post 2000 we, on the Sunshine Coast also had a large part of the assembly turn to tertiary education. This is a sign of the economic times we are in, but I also wonder if the passing of the 2000 milestone had anything to do with it. Interestingly, all those that went onto higher education (houseleaders and long term members btw) all moved on from Revival soon after. I think once people start educating themselves they find it easier not to fall for controlling church tactics.

---

We do not have a culture of fear or control. Come up and visit some time, you are all welcome.Maybe staying on topic this is one of the other ingredients to a happy and healthy church (DIVERSITY)RF I wouldn't believe that raising such stuff at Convention would do any good, those guys have got bigger fish to fry

---

Hi FG, long time no hear! 

As much as I appreciate your invitation, I suspect your whole assembly would be 'put out' by the Adelaide ' bosses'  if you welcomed people such as us to come to a meeting up there!  Because quite a few of us left voluntarily to go to another church, we are the 'worst kind' of backsliders you know LOL !  Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking what you said, but I can just imagine the ramifications of such an invitation if we were to actually come. I know your fellowship is very different to RF Adelaide & I'm sure is a very warm and welcoming one and not into fear, control and manipulation. God bless you all as you follow the leading of the Holy Spirit.

Bigger fish to fry at Convention huh? Can I cook you some chips to go with that fish??? LOL

Love, Urch

---

I think once people start educating themselves they find it easier not to fall for controlling church tactics.

---

Fair go Moth!   Some of us are educated but we still went along with it all for a number of years for various reasons.

Urch

---

Fair go Moth! Some of usareeducated but we still went along with it all for a number of years for various reasons.Urch

---

It wasn't an attack on educated people, but of course even a 6 year old is educated... Real education never actually stops. I know a lot of religions put a lid on education and try to make it finite. That's a control mechanism of cult practitioners. Revivalists promote education and free thought to a degree, as long as it doesn't contradict with the set in stone 'statement of beliefs'.

I didn't mean to say that anyone with a degree was 'stupid' because they stayed trapped in the Revival churches relative to others. I just observed that of all the people in my assembly to leave while at college or etc. may have done so because we clicked onto the idea of questioning the status quo.

Reply to : franks ghost

Great to hear from you again. I agree with most of what you're saying!!!

---

My personal opinion is this is absolute cultish rubbish ... I wouldn't believe that raising such stuff at Convention would do any good, those guys have got bigger fish to fry

---

What's "bigger fish" than removing "absolute cultish rubbish" from your fellowship?

---

... and so has the brissy pastor B S I think now has a doctorate degree of some sort ...

---

If you're talking about the head pastor, I hope not.  I recently read a recent paper of his, and if I'd handed it in as part of an undergrad.  Uni assessment it would have been handed back with a resubmit. If I'd handed it to one of my bosses of days gone by, it would have been thrown back at me with a red line though it and comments to effect of "What are you trying to say?"

Of course ... we all have our bad days. So presumably his other work is better.

Anyone know what the degree is?

Post 2000 we, on the Sunshine Coast also had a large part of the assembly turn to tertiary education. This is a sign of the economic times we are in, but I also wonder if the passing of the 2000 milestone had anything to do with it. Interestingly, all those that went onto higher education (houseleaders and long term members btw) all moved on from Revival soon after. I think once people start educating themselves they find it easier not to fall for controlling church tactics.

I think the reason people moved on had little to do with their education. It's more likely the new education gave some greater ability  to process and respond to the stuff going on at the time, which I believe was sad and many souls were hurt. (understatement).

 

---

Just to correct people, the perth guidelines actually state the exact opposite of whats been said on here:"EMPLOYMENT - 2Thess 3:10-12It is suggested that young people who cannot get employment register for full time college tuition rather than being idle."Funny how it can be so easy to distort things and even clearly misquote to advantage!

---

Hey annon.

I'll give you a clue about cult. Whats the latest buzz on Toowoomba RF & other east Coast Fellowships.

Now go find your bible and read Matthew 18:15

1 John 4:1 (it's past time to start and listen to the leading of the Spirit on many matters)

The theme, by the way which I started was to check out some healthy church behaviours (which if you go back over the thread there are some great ideas) could you see Perth implementing anything suggested?

---

Reply to : AnonymousJust to correct people, the perth guidelines actually state the exact opposite of whats been said on here:"EMPLOYMENT - 2Thess 3:10-12It is suggested that young people who cannot get employment register for full time college tuition rather than being idle."Funny how it can be so easy to distort things and even clearly misquote to advantage!Hey annon.I'll give you a clue about cult. Whats the latest buzz on Toowoomba RF & other east Coast Fellowships.Now go find your bible and readMatthew 18:151 John 4:1(it's past time to start and listen to the leading of the Spirit on many matters)The theme, by the way which I started was to check out some healthy church behaviours (which i

---

I was wondering how long it would take you to present ?

Wait and see we will.

Well, what I've heard is that after Russ returned a few weeks ago from the Pastor's Council, he stood up and stated on the following Sunday that he was expecting the Toowoomba RF to havea long and stable relationship with the rest of the RF. Has he said something in private that contradicts his public statements?That sounds clear enough.Ian

---

Well Ian I don't know who your mole is, but no such belief of statement has or could possibly be held or given at the moment. Russ is well past the regular happy family snow job that comes to the fellowships after these get togethers. He keeps it real and current culture is a product of open dialogue.

Toowoomba may be a work in progress and none is without certain delusions however the fact we are all on the same page across the work is not a belief any thinking person here would hold.

yes frank what is thelatest buzz re toowoomba etc

How about we let the anons and others answer this question, after all we all know I'm a happy little vegamite who loves his fellow saints and am thouroughly enjoying the progress the church is making.

I think the reason people moved on had little to do with their education. It's more likely the new education gave some greater ability  to process and respond to the stuff going on at the time

So you do think it had something to do with education. Whatever... what I'm saying, is that anyone who bothers to poke their head outside of the Revival box and consider the wider world or christendom around them will get a wake-up call and move on if they have guts. Sometimes we have to do what's right, and not what's easy.

stuff going on at the time, which I believe was sad

All the people I mentioned who left at that time went on to great churches and healthy free lives

which I believe was sad and many souls were hurt. (Understatement)?

Sad for who?... who's souls were hurt? The insecurities of Revivalists who had to deal with the concept that people would dare to leave their near perfect doctrine and holy fellowship?

---

Reply to : earth5yes frank what is thelatest buzz re toowoomba etcHow about we let the anons and others answer this question, after all we all know I'm a happy little vegamite who loves his fellow saints and am thouroughly enjoying the progress the church is making.

---

Hi FG, I think I would rather here it from you my friend pm me

earth5

---

Reply to : franks ghostReply to : earth5yes frank what is thelatest buzz re toowoomba etcHow about we let the anons and others answer this question, after all we all know I'm a happy little vegamite who loves his fellow saints and am thouroughly enjoying the progress the church is making.Hi FG, I think I would rather here it from you my friend pm meearth5

---

I believe that the 2 things that stop them are fear and love. Love for the flock that they watch over combined with a fear of the flock scattering in different directions if they took such a big step in removing themselves from the organization.

Good point.

Then of course there are their own fears of "we've been told all these years that this is the right way to do things, what if it's true and we lose our salvation and take others down the wrong track too???"

Ah highly unlikely, there is very little fear of that from those being osticized, you see they are generally already enjoying plenty of incredibly imformative information being made available from all these sources, dvd's, mp3's and Koorong bookshop has been a God send. There was a time when separation meant separation from sin, not separation from the rest of the body. 

Don't forget, some of these guys have been more brainwashed than most. The RF oversight (the nastier ones) probably have Satan on their side giving them skills in influencing people in a negative manner. I'm not talking in a big dramatic demonology sense, but in the way that Satan can subtly influence people.

Anyone in this position is definately not looking for change. Is this a fair response?

---

yep, fair enough frank!I stand corrected, some of them are probably not scared of losing their salvation if they change their doctrine (i.e. your pastor - according to what you've said) but when i wrote that post I actually had some other pastors in mind. more like the pastors from canberra etc.

---

Thats ok, I wasn't thinking of him either, there are some great guys out there in Rf land. Don't underestimate God's ability to to bring enlightenment to anyone. There is a huge wake up call happening over the Body of Christ. Some waking up from deap sleep others coming into a deaper experience. A recent visit to Canberra gave me huge confidence in God to do a work. I am really tired of generalised RF bashing, it's just the other side of the coin when RFers continue to knock all other groups.

I don't think God sees the name of the banner he's looking at the heart and mine for one was a shocker, I havent changed the banner I've pressed in with a fresh attitude and God is honouring his word and realeasing me into his liberty and so much more.

So you can change the building, change your oversight, change the music, get some new worship to wash over you, change the name, change the doctrine, change your friends, however without the inside stuff getting a work over it just doesn't matter what we wish to be called.

Me I'm at the Rf, but I'm going hard after God and I'll pray & work hard that as many as can be positively effected in the whole BODY will be.

Gods richest blessing

---

Reply to : set freeyep, fair enough frank!I stand corrected, some of them are probably not scared of losing their salvation if they change their doctrine (i.e. your pastor - according to what you've said) but when i wrote that post I actually had some other pastors in mind. more like the pastors from canberra etc.

---

---

Sorry Earthy, got a bit on.

---