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spitchips
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1#
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Rank:Rookier
Score:1700
Posts:82
Registered:24/10/2008
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Re:Read this book!
(Date Posted:06/11/2009 18:43:21)
Ian,
Over night I got thinking, I must Ian or others to recommend a book regarding a good interpretation on Genesis. Well, hello and thanks. Going on line to purchase today.
Thanks Chips
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brolga
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2#
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Registered:12/09/2009
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Re:Read this book!
(Date Posted:06/11/2009 20:00:27)
Ian, Amazon online is my only convenience to aquire books at the moment, as this book cost is very small amount for cost of shipping, I would like to order perhaps something on Revelation. Can you recommend something on Revelation to build the order? thanks. Ralph Fww, I have always had the notion; by having the correct knowledge and understanding of the first and last books of the bible, the in-between should fall into place much easier.  ?
(Message edited by brolga On 06/11/2009 20:12:04)
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'It is for God above all things that we are born, and not for ourselves.' (Calvin)
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Didaktikon
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3#
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Rank:Old Forum Fogey
Score:31540
Posts:1514
Registered:29/08/2007
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Reply To brolga
(Date Posted:06/11/2009 21:22:13)
Hi, Ralph.
Leaving aside the standard commentaries, you could do worse than to
purchase Dr Craig Koester's, "Revelation and the End of All Things"
($21 at Koorong). Koester's book functions as a guide to Revelation, outlining all the major interpretative positions, but with a clear focus towards the text and its purpose.
Blessings,
Ian
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Vivos voco, mortuos plango
website: www.pleaseconsider.info email: didaktikon@gmail.com
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Didaktikon
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4#
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Rank:Old Forum Fogey
Score:31540
Posts:1514
Registered:29/08/2007
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Reply To spitchips
(Date Posted:06/11/2009 22:09:51)
Chips,
If you're looking for a good, readable commentary that covers all of Genesis, then "Genesis: A Commentary" by Professor Bruce Waltke and Cathi Fredricks is as good as any and better than most. $44 from Koorong at the moment.
Blessings,
Ian
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Vivos voco, mortuos plango
website: www.pleaseconsider.info email: didaktikon@gmail.com
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spitchips
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5#
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Rank:Rookier
Score:1700
Posts:82
Registered:24/10/2008
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Re:Read this book!
(Date Posted:06/11/2009 22:37:23)
Hi Ian
It seemed such a sign to me, I immediately ordered Dr Walton's book and will keep an eye open for the other one, too.
Never thought I'd be even interested enough to read up on these matters - wonders never cease.
I see the 'one most cool' has given a wee warning to our Gal.
Chips
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Didaktikon
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6#
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Rank:Old Forum Fogey
Score:31540
Posts:1514
Registered:29/08/2007
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Reply To spitchips
(Date Posted:06/11/2009 22:41:53)
Hi, Chips.
Walton's book is an excellent entree into the subject of Genesis chapter one and the Creation/Science issue. In this respect it's probably without parallel. The other work, however, is a commentary. Consequently, it's better at providing a sure guide through the entire book of Genesis; of placing the part within the framework of the whole.
Both are excellent resources.
Blessings,
Ian
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Vivos voco, mortuos plango
website: www.pleaseconsider.info email: didaktikon@gmail.com
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Fremde
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7#
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Rank:Regular Member
Score:4470
Posts:219
Registered:19/09/2007
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RE:Read this book!
(Date Posted:07/11/2009 01:25:54)
Ian, thanks for the book recommendations.
From a young age I had a fascination with Palaeontology and I have a huge collection of simple through to scientific books on the subject. I had my sights set on being a Paleontologist. I had the IQ and the
smarts but no dedication, so i dropped out of school at year 10, with my dream somewhere floating away.
Then came "Revivalism" and the dictates of "evilution" (spelling error deliberate). After being coerced into the PRC, Creation Science like a lot of things drew me in.
So where did I end up post-Revivalism? Fence sitting.
I have great difficulties with evolution because of the gaps in "missing links" and what I think are impossibilities of evolution like the hummingbird, the woodpecker etc with multi specialised peculiar characteristics, which, without each, the birds would not have been unable to function or survive in their habitat. These are not the only critters for which evolution doesn't seem workable, but they are prime examples.
On the other hand it is difficult to speculate that humans lived along side the Apatosaurus, Tyrannosaurus Rex (Rex because he believed in British Israel? heh heh heh), Rhamphoryncus and other gargantuan beasts. One can "prove" a worldwide flood, but with a great deal of difficulty! Too many gaps in the hypothesis, just like evolution.
Then we get to carbon dating which sort of works until you go back millions of years and a whole lot of speculations by biologists and paleontologists theorising get taken up as facts.
I did not raise my children as either Pentecostals or Christians (these were my Prodigal years). My son went to a Church of England Grammar School which was weak on encouraging or teaching faith and doctrine, so he declared himself sort of agnostic. During his university years we once had a discussion during which he declared that he had just as much trouble believing evolution as any religious belief and we both agreed on the similarities of fanaticism and blind faith in both. I have met many evolutionists, who, with a small "brain cell tweak" would make fervent Pentecostals.
I believe, as I have testified, that God in His grace, was merciful and I stopped "kicking against the pricks". The Holy Spirit has worked a change of mind and heart in me. One day my son asked me why I believed and I quoted, with passion, John 6:67 to 69 and Matthew 16:13 to 17. He went quiet.
Not wanting to get caught up in speculation of the Revivalism kind, things that puzzle me, I pray about and leave in God's hands. A bit like, once bitten, twice shy. Please do not interpret that as a closed mind.
Like the global warming debate, there are a lot of folk adhering to a tenet, without a clue of the detail. Is it because of Revivalism, that while I believe that deforestation, pollution and overfishing etc are ruining the planet, I cautious of rash judgement and poorly-planned decisions from people that I wouldn't send down the street to get me the newspaper?
How did you sort things out after the your numbing Revivalism experience?
John
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Didaktikon
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8#
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Rank:Old Forum Fogey
Score:31540
Posts:1514
Registered:29/08/2007
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Reply To Fremde
(Date Posted:07/11/2009 05:10:16)
Good evening, John.
I suppose what worked for me best, was to study the history of Christian teaching on these and related subjects. In doing so I soon discovered that the Christian Church had, by-and-large, believed in and taught from an "Old Earth Creationism" perspective; that Genesis chapters one and two weren't necessarily seen as "scientific explanations" for how God created, rather they simply affirmed theologically that God had created; et cetera. Learning the biblical languages, immersing myself in the range of contexts that impart sense and meaning from Scripture and similar sharpened my appreciation for understanding biblical teaching aright, which better enabled me to logically appreciate, adopt, and affirm what is a unified and internally consistent Christian world-view.
Everyone is different; I'm analytically minded so I tend to approach these tasks after such a fashion. I also read broadly and deeply, all the while attempting to keep abreast of the best of scholarship.
Blessings,
Ian
(Message edited by Didaktikon On 07/11/2009 05:21:29)
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Vivos voco, mortuos plango
website: www.pleaseconsider.info email: didaktikon@gmail.com
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Sea Urchin
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9#
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Rank:Poster Venti III
Score:9010
Posts:431
Registered:15/02/2007
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Re:Read this book!
(Date Posted:07/11/2009 16:51:14)
Thanks for the recommendation Ian, going to Koorong this week (20% off everything)!
Creation is something that fascinates me - that God would breathe the universes into existence and that we are not just 'accidents' is amazing and beautiful. I work with scientists, biologists, ecologists and most of them just don't 'get it'.
What they do 'get' though John (following on from your comments) is climate change, deforestation, rising ocean levels, species extinction etc and believe me these things ARE happening.
My personal belief is I feel that, as responsible stewards over what God has given us, we should do all that we can as individuals to respect, enjoy and preserve our beautiful planet earth and I encourage others to at least think about these matters.
God bless, Urch
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Your unfailing love, O Lord, is as vast as the heavens; your faithfulness reaches beyond the clouds. Your righteousness is like the mighty mountains, your justice like the ocean depths.
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Episkopeo
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10#
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Rank:Regular Rookier
Score:5700
Posts:267
Registered:30/08/2007
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Re:Read this book!
(Date Posted:07/11/2009 22:15:45)
Thanks Ian for those book titles. I know a few people I would like to pass the Genesis ones on to.
There's some worrying "liberal" thinking among some in (various) church leadership/teaching positions who are of the strong belief that the account of creation, Adam and Eve are a mythical representation of the beginnings of the world and of the human race. The first five chapters of the bible are being classified as myth, theory, parable, folklore opening up the option of individual evolutionist thinking. It opens up a beleive it or not thinking, allowing liberal christians to believe that they can have their cake and eat it too, so to speak - belief in both evolution and the bible.
Then of course there's the unusual Lloydian Revivalist slant on Adam and Eve not really being the first human beings.
Epi
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Metanoian
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11#
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Registered:13/06/2009
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Reply To Episkopeo
(Date Posted:07/11/2009 23:32:40)
Reply to Episkopeo Thanks Ian for those book titles. I know a few people I would like to pass the Genesis ones on to.
There's some worrying "liberal" thinking among some in (various) church leadership/teaching positions who are of the strong belief that the account of creation, Adam and Eve are a mythical representation of the beginnings of the world and of the human race. The first five chapters of the bible are being classified as myth, theory, parable, folklore opening up the option of individual evolutionist thinking. It opens up a beleive it or not thinking, allowing liberal christians to believe that they can have their cake and eat it too, so to speak - belief in both evolution and the bible.
Then of course there's the unusual Lloydian Revivalist slant on Adam and Eve not really being the first human beings.
Epi
It's out of stock - take 3 - 5 weeks to supply order And here's one for Ian !! available now !! - enjoy ! Metanoia
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Didaktikon
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12#
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Rank:Old Forum Fogey
Score:31540
Posts:1514
Registered:29/08/2007
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Reply To Metanoian
(Date Posted:07/11/2009 23:50:50)
Thanks, Eric, but no thanks 
Blessings,
Ian
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Vivos voco, mortuos plango
website: www.pleaseconsider.info email: didaktikon@gmail.com
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Didaktikon
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13#
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Rank:Old Forum Fogey
Score:31540
Posts:1514
Registered:29/08/2007
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Reply To Episkopeo
(Date Posted:07/11/2009 23:58:11)
Hi, Epi.
I guess the issue rests on what one understands to be intended by the term "myth". For example, I have no problems whatsoever with referring to Genesis chapters one and two as "myth"! But this admission is contingent upon the academic definition, rather than the "popular" definition, of the word. Similarly, one must be very cautious about writing off the term "evolution". Again I have no problem with accepting micro-evolution; however, I would baulk somewhat at what's implied by the "macro" version.
I'd suggest that the balance is to be found in reading Scripture literarily before one reads it literally!
Blessings,
Ian
(Message edited by Didaktikon On 08/11/2009 00:01:24)
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Vivos voco, mortuos plango
website: www.pleaseconsider.info email: didaktikon@gmail.com
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brolga
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14#
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Registered:12/09/2009
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Re:Read this book!
(Date Posted:08/11/2009 01:21:09)
Reading online a preview of Walton’s, it finally hits home the importance of considering times and events at the time of writing. For those in ancient times, the way we now look at science didn’t exist back then. Everything about the cosmos was seen as a deity ruling the natural order of things. They never had the resources and knowledge that is available today, so how could they see things as we do today. It remains so important to keep this in mind when studying scripture.
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'It is for God above all things that we are born, and not for ourselves.' (Calvin)
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Episkopeo
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15#
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Rank:Regular Rookier
Score:5700
Posts:267
Registered:30/08/2007
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Re:Read this book!
(Date Posted:08/11/2009 21:24:47)
Reply to Didaktikon
Hi, Epi.
I guess the issue rests on what one understands to be intended by the term "myth". For example, I have no problems whatsoever with referring to Genesis chapters one and two as "myth"! But this admission is contingent upon the academic definition, rather than the "popular" definition, of the word. Similarly, one must be very cautious about writing off the term "evolution". Again I have no problem with accepting micro-evolution; however, I would baulk somewhat at what's implied by the "macro" version.
I'd suggest that the balance is to be found in reading Scripture literarily before one reads it literally!
Blessings,
Ian
(Message edited by Didaktikon On 08/11/2009 00:01:24) |
Good Morning Ian, Thanks for your reply. Regarding your last sentence, I think I have been a bit "unbalanced" in this regard. So Chapters 1 and 2 are narratives of the origins of things, to preserve the tradition of God as creator, but symbolism is used as to how God created all things. Does this apply in Chapters 3 and 4 describing the loss of harmony and the barrier between God and man by the fall of the human race into sin. God Bless Epi
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Didaktikon
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16#
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Rank:Old Forum Fogey
Score:31540
Posts:1514
Registered:29/08/2007
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Reply To Episkopeo
(Date Posted:08/11/2009 21:51:04)
Hi, Epi.
Genesis chapters one through 11 functions as a theological introduction to the entire book, but more specifically, with respect to God's election of Israel. Consequently, one needs to reflect on the overarching purpose behind the "primeval prologue", and the function of the literary devices used therein, if one is to understand the message properly.
In stating this one also needs to be cautious of the error of seeking to "downplay" the historicity of key people and events (for example the New Testament itself affirms the reality of both Adam and the Fall). The "hermeneutical key" is to be found in the reading of Genesis literarily (e.g. with an eye to contextual indicators) before one reads the book literally. After all, such is precisley how an ancient Hebrew would have approached matters.
Blessings,
Ian
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Vivos voco, mortuos plango
website: www.pleaseconsider.info email: didaktikon@gmail.com
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Didaktikon
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17#
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Rank:Old Forum Fogey
Score:31540
Posts:1514
Registered:29/08/2007
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RE:Read this book!
(Date Posted:09/11/2009 05:44:26)
Well, I'm surprised. I anticipated that my recent comments on Genesis would've drawn more discussion.
Blessings,
Ian
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Vivos voco, mortuos plango
website: www.pleaseconsider.info email: didaktikon@gmail.com
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Metanoian
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18#
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Registered:13/06/2009
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Reply To brolga
(Date Posted:21/11/2009 20:43:59)
Reply to brolga Ian, Amazon online is my only convenience to aquire books at the moment, as this book cost is very small amount for cost of shipping, I would like to order perhaps something on Revelation. Can you recommend something on Revelation to build the order? thanks. Ralph Fww, I have always had the notion; by having the correct knowledge and understanding of the first and last books of the bible, the in-between should fall into place much easier. ?  ps: just teasing 
(Message edited by Metanoian On 21/11/2009 22:32:13)
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Didaktikon
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19#
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Rank:Old Forum Fogey
Score:31540
Posts:1514
Registered:29/08/2007
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Reply To Metanoian
(Date Posted:21/11/2009 22:58:30)
Hi, Ralph.
Beale's commentary is very good, but it's well beyond the scope of most untrained Christians. It requires a fairly comprehensive skill set to understand (not the least of which is a developed capacity in Greek).
Blessings,
Ian
(Message edited by Didaktikon On 21/11/2009 23:01:58)
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Vivos voco, mortuos plango
website: www.pleaseconsider.info email: didaktikon@gmail.com
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brolga
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20#
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Registered:12/09/2009
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Re:Read this book!
(Date Posted:22/11/2009 00:34:45)
Eric,
Ha, you had me going there for minute until I saw your PS. I previously did have a look at a preview of it, didn't purchase it as yet.
Ian,
thanks, yes might be able to get handle on it someday, 'round about 100 years from now.lol.
I have received the books Walton's, "Lost world of Genesis One"; Koister's, "Revelation and the End of All Things"
For some strange reason also in the package from Amazon was "The Book of Revelation Revised" by Robert H. Mounce.(NI Commentry on the NT) I don't ever recall ordering that book but could have accidently put it in the cart at sometime.
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'It is for God above all things that we are born, and not for ourselves.' (Calvin)
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Metanoian
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21#
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Registered:13/06/2009
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Reply To brolga
(Date Posted:22/11/2009 00:56:48)
Reply to brolga Eric,
Ha, you had me going there for minute until I saw your PS. I previously did have a look at a preview of it, didn't purchase it as yet.
Ian,
thanks, yes might be able to get handle on it someday, 'round about 100 years from now.lol.
I have received the books Walton's, "Lost world of Genesis One"; Koister's, "Revelation and the End of All Things"
For some strange reason also in the package from Amazon was "The Book of Revelation Revised" by Robert H. Mounce.(NI Commentry on the NT) I don't ever recall ordering that book but could have accidently put it in the cart at sometime.
Tell you what Ralph !! It is frustrating submitting to a lecturer who hasn't got a handle at all on some Greek... in such events, I simply bite my tongue. My last lecturer didn't have the Greek fonting to be able to read my exegesis.  And if Ian were to say that 98% of Pente leaders don't have a handle on Greek at all, I would have to admit he is pretty right. Listening to some of them on the telly and in their church services playing at being clever at quoting a Greek word without any understanding of its role as a noun or verb with its grammatical implication does annoy a wee bit. By the way check your shipping docket. Maybe you have been blessed by God with a freebie  Eric
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brolga
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22#
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Registered:12/09/2009
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Re:Read this book!
(Date Posted:22/11/2009 01:41:59)
Eric, Tell you what Ralph !! It is frustrating submitting to a lecturer who hasn't got a handle at all on some Greek... in such events, I simply bite my tongue. My last lecturer didn't have the Greek fonting to be able to read my exegesis.
And if Ian were to say that 98% of Pente leaders don't have a handle on Greek at all, I would have to admit he is pretty right. Listening to some of them on the telly and in their church services playing at being clever at quoting a Greek word without any understanding of its role as a noun or verb with its grammatical implication does annoy a wee bit.
It was displayed in Revivalist groups also. Even with the very small amount of understanding of Greek I now possess, does make one sit up and take notice when it is used by the “now-alls”
By the way check your shipping docket. Maybe you have been blessed by God with a freebie
Not a freebie, but very inexpensive, being hard cover and all. $10. Ralph
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'It is for God above all things that we are born, and not for ourselves.' (Calvin)
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Didaktikon
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23#
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Rank:Old Forum Fogey
Score:31540
Posts:1514
Registered:29/08/2007
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Reply To brolga
(Date Posted:22/11/2009 03:14:53)
Hi, Ralph.
Well, if you went and ordered Bob Mounce's NICNT volume on Revelation then you've done well! It's the volume that I recommend to non-Greek capable Christians, as being the "best" general purpose commentary on the Apocalypse currently in print.
Blessings,
Ian
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Vivos voco, mortuos plango
website: www.pleaseconsider.info email: didaktikon@gmail.com
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brolga
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24#
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Registered:12/09/2009
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Re:Read this book!
(Date Posted:22/11/2009 04:04:01)
Thanks guys, Wow, how cool is that?  Must have a good angel watching over me, hey?
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'It is for God above all things that we are born, and not for ourselves.' (Calvin)
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